Is the DAP dead?????
Jan 4, 2020 at 12:17 PM Post #76 of 146
Unless the have to offer something nobody does... Like apple offered a mobile phone that reinvented the mobile phone as a whole. Innovation is the key to success.
Yes, innovation is the key to success, but it's very hard for a small company to innovate/compete when there are much, much, much larger companies that want to keep competition to a minimum. If one of the audiophile companies had a billion dollar idea, the tech companies would make it their goal that that idea either becomes their own or never makes it to market.
Not to say that it could never happen, but I wanted to point out some reasons why innovating isn't necessarily as easy as simply having a good idea. Anyway, aren't LG and MQA already trying to fill the gap in the mobile audiophile-mass market segment? Neither of them has been wildly successful in their attempts. I mean, neither of them is failing (that I know of), nor are they taking over the market with their products.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 12:59 PM Post #78 of 146
Also, LG doesn't have the marketing budget or brand recognition of Samsung or Apple. In addition, the LG V series wasn't necessarily marketed to the audiophile community, as it was touted as a multi-media device with excellent cameras, video capabilities, AND audio capabilities, but in terms of cameras and video, it fell short of Samsung, Apple, and Google. And in the smartphone market, you really must be at the top of your game in each category (Screen Size & Quality, Camera Quality, Battery Life, Weight, Thinness, Screen:Body Ratio) OR one must have massive brand cache to overcome one of these shortcomings (See: Apple).

Audiophiles are willing to make concessions for audio, such as poor UI performance and/or software optimization, a low resolution/quality screen, poor battery life and mediocre connectivity, as long as the audio remains desirable. Phone owners are generally unwilling to make concessions without some sort of brand image to compensate. And generally speaking, people are generally sheep and will often accept, even begrudgingly, unwanted changes if it means maintaining their brand loyalty. I don't see nearly as much of that here in regards to the DAP market, though, there are some brand apologists lurking from time to time.

In the DAP market, it seems like the competition is pretty stiff, and it is driving devices to make fewer and fewer compromises, which I see as a good thing. Bypassing the android audio stack, multiple output options (3.5, 2.5, 4.4) available, processors/ram/screens are ever improving in quality, and software is improving with every iteration. The difference that I see is that most of the companies are smallish, and the market is small, and the potential for profit is much smaller with greater risk, so progress is made, but slower and with greater consideration than is seen in the smartphone market.

Could you imagine 90% screen ratio DAPs without physical buttons and no output options other than Bluetooth? I'm rather glad that the two industries have evolved separately.

~Ex
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:06 PM Post #79 of 146
Really looking forward to hearing your opinions on the subject: I too have been listening to my iPhone / Tidal/ DFC Setup and love it, but I’m somehow convincing myself I need to buy a dedicated DAP to store lossless files I don’t even own at the moment ... this world is dangerous!

Ready... I will be using the following
Audeze LCD-MX4
Sennheiser HD800S
KZ ZS 10 pro
KZ ZSX
Audio-Technica ATH-M40x (SE only)
balanced and single ended except the AT

let’s put it to the test and see if the DAP days are over... will be posting short conclusions here.
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:22 PM Post #80 of 146
Really looking forward to hearing your opinions on the subject: I too have been listening to my iPhone / Tidal/ DFC Setup and love it, but I’m somehow convincing myself I need to buy a dedicated DAP to store lossless files I don’t even own at the moment ... this world is dangerous!
Will revert soon with first impressions and I am equally enthusiastic about it. I used to have DAPs but after using the dragonfly black I stopped using them. Fast forward with the cobalt and what I can say for the moment is that the dap industry didn’t stay still. Much more will follow soon. I am using one day the iPhone tidal and cobalt and for the following day the FiiO m11 going back and forth. I believe in a week will have formed a concrete opinion. Stay tuned :)
 
Jan 4, 2020 at 5:24 PM Post #81 of 146
Will do thank you!

min the meanwhile I fell in love with the AK Kann Cube. I need to snap out of it before it’s too late.

:)

Will revert soon with first impressions and I am equally enthusiastic about it. I used to have DAPs but after using the dragonfly black I stopped using them. Fast forward with the cobalt and what I can say for the moment is that the dap industry didn’t stay still. Much more will follow soon. I am using one day the iPhone tidal and cobalt and for the following day the FiiO m11 going back and forth. I believe in a week will have formed a concrete opinion. Stay tuned :)
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 8:52 AM Post #82 of 146
Will do thank you!

min the meanwhile I fell in love with the AK Kann Cube. I need to snap out of it before it’s too late.

:)
As you can see from this thread I am/was/will be (depending on the review) on the dragonfly + smartphone camp. Before buying the FiiO M11 as part of the “self challenging my opinions” I looked on several daps. I tried the AK Kann Cube in a store and the size/weight of this unit was a no go for me. It’s really chunky, big and heavy. The aim of my review is to challenge the need for a portable dap and use iPhone plus dragonfly. The size and the fact that the kann cube is not portable was a deal breaker for me and I thought to share it with you. The fiio from the other hand is handy and the right size for a portable device.
 
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Jan 5, 2020 at 9:39 AM Post #83 of 146
As you can see from this thread I am/was/will be (depending on the review) on the dragonfly + smartphone camp. Before buying the FiiO M11 as part of the “self challenging my opinions” I looked on several daps. I tried the AK Kann Cube in a store and the size/weight of this unit was a no go for me. It’s really chunky, big and heavy. The aim of my review is to challenge the need for a portable dap and use iPhone plus dragonfly. The size and the fact that the kann cube is not portable was a deal breaker for me and I thought to share it with you. The fiio from the other hand is handy and the right size for a portable device.

I hear you... I love the Kann Cube look but I would be impossible to carry around, and I really have no need for that much power running headphones (I am using Stealth Sonics IEMs and Grado RS1), plus it seems the battery doesn't last that long.

I am researching and reading about the FiiO M11, iBasso DX220 and AK SE100...I am not in a rush to make a choice so I'm just soaking information and reading as much as.I can...I will most likely stop by a few stores and test a few of these if I can find them in town.

Thanks again for your input!
 
Jan 5, 2020 at 9:42 AM Post #84 of 146
As you can see from this thread I am/was/will be (depending on the review) on the dragonfly + smartphone camp. Before buying the FiiO M11 as part of the “self challenging my opinions” I looked on several daps. I tried the AK Kann Cube in a store and the size/weight of this unit was a no go for me. It’s really chunky, big and heavy. The aim of my review is to challenge the need for a portable dap and use iPhone plus dragonfly. The size and the fact that the kann cube is not portable was a deal breaker for me and I thought to share it with you. The fiio from the other hand is handy and the right size for a portable device.

and yes I'm with you regarding iPhone + Dragonfly: hard to beat as a portable combo, though I have been noticing quite a bit of battery consumption due to the Dragonfly and probably the amount of music I have been listening to.I wonder if a battery case for my XS Max is in my future...
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 10:56 AM Post #85 of 146
The DAP will never die. No phone can compare. To even come close you'd need an external DAC and AMP and if you're adding those might as well just get a DAP
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM Post #86 of 146
The DAP will never die. No phone can compare. To even come close you'd need an external DAC and AMP and if you're adding those might as well just get a DAP
Well, never say never. Nevertheless, in terms of portability the comparison is iPhone+dragonfly cobalt vs iPhone and a separate dap taking into account that the mobile is an indispensable item. So, it’s two units vs one and 1/5 of a unit. Let’s see how it will go. I already have my first impressions
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 12:37 PM Post #87 of 146
Well, never say never. Nevertheless, in terms of portability the comparison is iPhone+dragonfly cobalt vs iPhone and a separate dap taking into account that the mobile is an indispensable item. So, it’s two units vs one and 1/5 of a unit. Let’s see how it will go. I already have my first impressions

Yeah it's a lot better now with the dragonfly cobalt. I remember the days of adding an DAC and AMP to the Iphone making it just a big bulky mess.
 
Jan 6, 2020 at 2:17 PM Post #90 of 146
I suspect as CES2020 starts up, the days of simple daps are going limited. I suspect daps will have to adapt to a changing consumer, I personally would like the dap vendors to explore the small tablet form factor to offer a more interesting media consumption device, surf, video, audio, and still portable.
 

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