[521994]

@CortoLmaltese, you made several good points, frankly speaking, and strictly from the perspective of high end sound, I don’t even know why we are having this discussion. I can understand if we are trying to compare desktop system to portable daps, but if one wants to enjoy mesmerizing sound on the go, nothing besides dap will do. If anyone is serious about the quality and enjoyment of music and the purpose is to get the best sound on the go, dap is the only option, there is not even an alternative if one wants to enjoy music in an airplane, on the train, ship, case, bus, in a park, in a hotel or anywhere you may be. iPhone, notebook, dragonfly, will allow you to access to some tunes, but for serious listening on the go, dap is the only choice we have today.

We are having this discussion to exchange opinions perspectives and learn from each other. If we didn’t have this discussion I wouldn’t have tried the FiiO

 

[Jalo]

We are having this discussion to exchange opinions perspectives and learn from each other. If we didn’t have this discussion I wouldn’t have tried the FiiO

I am not faulting you for discussing this subject matter at all. All I am saying is that from an extreme audiophile's perspective, I am not even seeing an alternative to get to the level of high end sound if I don't go the DAP route.

 

[521994]

I am not faulting you for discussing this subject matter at all. All I am saying is that from an extreme audiophile's perspective, I am not even seeing an alternative to get to the level of high end sound if I don't go the DAP route.

I think it depends on everyone’s budget. For example someone can spend only 99 pounds on a dragonfly black then why not. The audiophile community should be embracing any new audiophile and any attempt to improve sound quality. After all you can be an audiophile no matter the budget.

 

[slumberman]

I think it depends on everyone’s budget. For example someone can spend only 99 pounds on a dragonfly black then why not. The audiophile community should be embracing any new audiophile and any attempt to improve sound quality. After all you can be an audiophile no matter the budget.

That’s very true. It’s also such a subjective thing, which makes the forums quite an interesting place... I’ve tested DAPs and headphones after reading about them here only to realize that in the end nothing can replace first person experience. So many aspects of this hobby are subjective and personal!

 

[Jalo]

I think it depends on everyone’s budget. For example someone can spend only 99 pounds on a dragonfly black then why not. The audiophile community should be embracing any new audiophile and any attempt to improve sound quality. After all you can be an audiophile no matter the budget.

Well that is exactly my point, you started the rabbit hole with dragonfly, then you want to try something better like a better iem or source, eventually you will still arrive at the dap, the point is the dap is not dead.

 

[521994]

Well that is exactly my point, you started the rabbit hole with dragonfly, then you want to try something better like a better iem or source, eventually you will still arrive at the dap, the point is the dap is not dead.

I arrived to the point that both are great products that can appeal to audiophiles with different budgets and priorities. After all it was an experiment for my personal knowledge.

 

[Redcarmoose]

That’s very true. It’s also such a subjective thing, which makes the forums quite an interesting place... I’ve tested DAPs and headphones after reading about them here only to realize that in the end nothing can replace first person experience. So many aspects of this hobby are subjective and personal!

Testing stuff in person is way more time saving than reading about it.

 

[slumberman]

Testing stuff in person is way more time saving than reading about it.

100%!

 

[Johnciaccio]

I also like to think of DAPs as all in one devices also. You can us some as a balanced DAC/amp. For a PC or a phone. The M30 that Shanling is working on even has modules for tubes. My M0 is small enough I sometimes forget I can connect it to my phone and stream Tidal.

 

[xenoVa]

As many people said, the advantage of a DAP is being all-in-one solution. When using an external DAC/AMP such as Mojo, trasferring audio from the source device to the Mojo is always a problem.

 

[TheUnknow]

I think we'll start seeing smartphones with monikers like sound by FiiO, or sound by Astell & Kern. That would make sense where eventually the phone companies allow experienced DAP makers to design their sound sections (assuming they want to beyond what they currently do).

Do you really think Vivo or LG need FiiO or A&K to make audiophile smartphone ?
In audio , it's all about experience , and Vivo, Meizu , LG have plenty of that.
If they want to go further , they have experience and the means to do that , but the smartphone market isn't rule by audio segment so why waste time and money for that ?

Do you think DAP companies have 500 people in R&D working for a decade to make a DAP ? No.
They are all using existing chip , technology hasn't evolve in ages , so all they do is implementation.
Once you know how to do that (by experience) , you don't need anyone else.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Do you really think Vivo or LG need FiiO or A&K to make audiophile smartphone ?
In audio , it's all about experience , and Vivo, Meizu , LG have plenty of that.
If they want to go further , they have experience and the means to do that , but the smartphone market isn't rule by audio segment so why waste time and money for that ?

Do you think DAP companies have 500 people in R&D working for a decade to make a DAP ? No.
They are all using existing chip , technology hasn't evolve in ages , so all they do is implementation.
Once you know how to do that (by experience) , you don't need anyone else.

It’s easy for us to think our concerns are like many, when they are not.

It’s only a super small segment of the market that even remotely thinks about sound quality. Heck I don’t know, but it could be less than 10% of a market for cell phones that gives a hoot about sound quality.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Do you really think Vivo or LG need FiiO or A&K to make audiophile smartphone ?
In audio , it's all about experience , and Vivo, Meizu , LG have plenty of that.
If they want to go further , they have experience and the means to do that , but the smartphone market isn't rule by audio segment so why waste time and money for that ?

Do you think DAP companies have 500 people in R&D working for a decade to make a DAP ? No.
They are all using existing chip , technology hasn't evolve in ages , so all they do is implementation.
Once you know how to do that (by experience) , you don't need anyone else.

Need? Nope, might they, absolutely. At one time the camera on cell phones was an afterthought. Eventually the smartphone sector figured out that a way to differentiate your product was with a good camera. Am I suggesting that an audiophile smartphone is a sure thing, not at all, but I do think it is realistic. And your argument falls short in places my friend. Car companies used to make their own audio systems, basic as they were, but luxury companies again wanting marketplace distinction started advertising sound by Bose, or sound by Bang & Oulfsen. So given that reality I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that this might happen with audio and smartphones, and it already has somewhat, but clearly you are somehow in the know about the future in a way that allows you to discuss your beliefs as fact while denigrating my thoughts as based upon stupidity and ignorance. Thank you for that.

 

[TheUnknow]

Need? Nope, might they, absolutely. At one time the camera on cell phones was an afterthought. Eventually the smartphone sector figured out that a way to differentiate your product was with a good camera. Am I suggesting that an audiophile smartphone is a sure thing, not at all, but I do think it is realistic. And your argument falls short in places my friend. Car companies used to make their own audio systems, basic as they were, but luxury companies again wanting marketplace distinction started advertising sound by Bose, or sound by Bang & Oulfsen. So given that reality I think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that this might happen with audio and smartphones, and it already has somewhat, but clearly you are somehow in the know about the future in a way that allows you to discuss your beliefs as fact while denigrating my thoughts as based upon stupidity and ignorance. Thank you for that.

Do you compare Bose and B&O with FiiO or A&K ?

Bose and B&O make speakers , FiiO and A&K don't .
A car company doesn't deal with speakers.
The DS7 comes with Focal set up, because of their speakers experience, that a car company only doing car don't have.

A DAP maker deals with chips , they don't create them.
A smartphone company deal with chip , sometimes they even made them (SoC).
So why can't a smartphone company make her own implementation ?
Did you know Meizu was a MP3 player manufacturer before doing smartphones ? ....

For me , it is like saying cars manufacturers need Samsung or Huawei for their Android Auto implementation ... which is ridiculous , don't you think ?

 

[Sonic Defender]

Clearly we are talking about the same thing from a different perspective making this is a go nowhere conversation. Life is too short for such things so I'll show myself out … Cheers.