You can absolutely make a case for either argument, but I tend to agree that DAPs aren't going anywhere. Not sure their market share will grow, but I think the premium niche market DAPs appeal to will stay pretty consistent, IMO. I get that a phone can actually be quite a solid device, heck for my portable solution (commuting) I use my phone and Sony XM3, but really, a DAP is a different thing and one doesn't make the other obsolete in terms of providing a musical solution. The big thing that I believe for a long, long time only a DAP will do is have the ability to produce enough juice to power more demanding loads, and that is a very big difference. I am talking one device to one device, it isn't quite a level playing field if we compare a phone coupled with a DAC/amp or DAC, one box to one box. At this point I don't think any phone alone is going to drive any difficult to drive headphone adequately to louder, well controlled levels.
You can absolutely make a case for either argument, but I tend to agree that DAPs aren't going anywhere. Not sure their market share will grow, but I think the premium niche market DAPs appeal to will stay pretty consistent, IMO. I get that a phone can actually be quite a solid device, heck for my portable solution (commuting) I use my phone and Sony XM3, but really, a DAP is a different thing and one doesn't make the other obsolete in terms of providing a musical solution. The big thing that I believe for a long, long time only a DAP will do is have the ability to produce enough juice to power more demanding loads, and that is a very big difference. I am talking one device to one device, it isn't quite a level playing field if we compare a phone coupled with a DAC/amp or DAC, one box to one box. At this point I don't think any phone alone is going to drive any difficult to drive headphone adequately to louder, well controlled levels.
I agree but all i was saying as an ex DAP owner is that is hard to beat solutions like iphone and dragonfly cobalt considering that with hi res streaming services there is no need to carry any of my audio files. I see the future as streaming only from a good sounding mobile or in my case iphone and cobalt. In that sense the DAP is a nice toy but not the essential tool it used to be.
I agree but all i was saying as an ex DAP owner is that is hard to beat solutions like iphone and dragonfly cobalt considering that with hi res streaming services there is no need to carry any of my audio files. I see the future as streaming only from a good sounding mobile or in my case iphone and cobalt. In that sense the DAP is a nice toy but not the essential tool it used to be.
Not at all. I am just saying what’s the point of a DAP in a streaming era. I currently use an iPhone with cobalt streaming tidal. Nevertheless, to put my money where my mouth is, I just purchased a FiiO m11. Will give it a go and see how it compares with my current mobile setup. If it’s better I will be happy. If not I will be selling it here. One way or another I will revert with first thoughts with some photos. let’s see if the DAP days are really over...
Ready... I will be using the following
Audeze LCD-MX4
Sennheiser HD800S
KZ ZS 10 pro
KZ ZSX
Audio-Technica ATH-M40x (SE only)
balanced and single ended except the AT
let’s put it to the test and see if the DAP days are over... will be posting short conclusions here.
Ready... I will be using the following
Audeze LCD-MX4
Sennheiser HD800S
KZ ZS 10 pro
KZ ZSX
Audio-Technica ATH-M40x (SE only)
balanced and single ended except the AT
let’s put it to the test and see if the DAP days are over... will be posting short conclusions here.
Good that you are willing to have an open mind, but do make sure to try and evaluate in so much as it is possible the convenience factor of a single device versus a phone with a cable attaching it to another device. There has to be some consideration of that as for many people, the DAP and phone are true portable devices and used on the go, not simple portable as in moving from one room to another in a home or office. When you take into account the reality of true mobility such as taking transit or walking, that is the domain in which convenience needs to be factored in. The Cobalt is supposed to be a very good little device.
I do have an open mind. Open enough to buy the dap. Now, regarding the dragonfly I have been using this for 6 months as a mobile device and I take it with me listening music everywhere. I will do the same with the dap switching back and forth every week. Also I will use it at home with my open back and add some powering challenge with the HD800s. For me priority is SQ and then the rest such as mobility, having to devices instead of one with a toggle dac, futures etc. First impression, I like the way the FiiO feels on my hand. That’s a good start
Oof. I find Darko's "article" to be more than mildly irritating. Not because I don't agree with him, but because what purports to be about why the "DAP is dead" instead is just a series of mini-reviews of DAP alternatives. All his argument consists of is that phones are better, but he fails at providing any sort of counter-argument. What? He couldn't think of a single thing that a DAP might offer over a phone? This isn't an article, but a poorly thought out opinion piece. There are more interesting counter-arguments in the first page of this thread than in the entirety of his screed.
@CortoLmaltese, I've also been wondering lately if a phone from one of the audiophile companies could exist... Or, rather, a DAP with a built-in phone. Neat in concept, but I don't think it could ever work. The smartphone market is simply too big and hot for one of these companies to even consider competing. They'd go from competing with other niche/boutique companies to competing with Samsung, LG, Apple, Google, Amazon— an as soon as one of those companies decides they want a piece of that pie, a relatively small audiophile company would be crushed in an instant. I mean, Oppo was owned by the third largest purveyor of smartphones and they had to close operations. Even Essential (not audiophile at all), which was founded by the co-founder of Android and made a really great (if over-priced) phone, was pretty much DOA even before Rubin's scandal was public. I think what might be smart, though, would be for one of the audiophile companies to help design a phone's audio circuitry for the price of having their name on the phone. But even that might be trickier than it first seems. Bang & Olufsen used to partner with different phone manufacturers, but I don't think they do that anymore. Heck, I don't think any Sony phones even have headphone jacks, let alone Walkman branding, and that seems like a no-brainer to an audiophile. My guess is there's a reason these don't exist beyond that the companies simply don't want to.
I think we'll start seeing smartphones with monikers like sound by FiiO, or sound by Astell & Kern. That would make sense where eventually the phone companies allow experienced DAP makers to design their sound sections (assuming they want to beyond what they currently do). I am again speculating into the future, but we have seen it with vehicles and televisions so I could see it with phones, but who knows, maybe it will never come to pass, maybe there is no need for it at all.
Cell phones in the mid 1980s were giant. It’s probably common sense that one day they could offer mind bending audiophile sound. But before a true conclusion could be made in this thread, a conclusion pertaining to today, there would have to be a number of DAPs and cell-phone-plus-adds-combos tested. In the end there is a good chance the crowd will be split.
As it is individual. Who is to say one style of sound could win someone over and conform them to a DAP or phone user experience? We all realize that both ways have their plus and minuses. I know where I stand but I didn’t test everything. 30 plus hours of continuous music play on one charge, quiet with IEMs, DSD capacity and 1.4 TB of memory potential. Be able to drive full-size headphones and offer 4.4 balanced. Not to mention sound quality. And it’s all about sound quality maybe? I just didn’t think a phone could be part of that idea, but phones players and side amps get better everyday.
If I could have a phone like my old Nokia 3589i, only thinner and with a weather app, I'd happily start carrying a DAP, too. That phone was bomb proof and da bomb. I think it cost me $35. I don't know how many times I dropped that phone out of my messenger bag while riding my bike... Pieces would scatter across the pavement and I'd snap them back together and go about my day. The idea of my $750 Android phone doing that is laughable.
@CortoLmaltese, I've also been wondering lately if a phone from one of the audiophile companies could exist... Or, rather, a DAP with a built-in phone. Neat in concept, but I don't think it could ever work.
Just to note, that is exactly what the iPhone is/was. An iPod Touch with phone capabilities. Now it may not be up to snuff with $1,000+ Mid-to-High End DAPs, but it clearly filled a niche in the market and became THE defacto standard in the industry. And back then, they were a small company, focused on PMPs, competing against industry giants like Nokia and BlackBerry.
Just to note, that is exactly what the iPhone is/was. An iPod Touch with phone capabilities. Now it may not be up to snuff with $1,000+ Mid-to-High End DAPs, but it clearly filled a niche in the market and became THE defacto standard in the industry. And back then, they were a small company, focused on PMPs, competing against industry giants like Nokia and BlackBerry.
I see your point, but I don't think it's quite the same thing. For one thing, Apple had been making hardware and software since the '80s and already had several recent hits with the iBooks, iMacs, Mac Minis, OS X and iTunes. You're right, they were new to the phone game when the iPhone came out, but they'd already been competing with the likes of IBM, Dell, HP, Microsoft, and brick and mortar record stores... Not to mention that they had Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Jony Ive. Hell, even Microsoft got out of the phone business! The iPhone was a successful company innovating and pivoting. Small companies like iBasso or FiiO jumping into the phone game would be jumping into the deep end. With sharks.
I see your point, but I don't think it's quite the same thing. For one thing, Apple had been making hardware and software since the '80s and already had several recent hits with the iBooks, iMacs, Mac Minis, OS X and iTunes. You're right, they were new to the phone game when the iPhone came out, but they'd already been competing with the likes of IBM, Dell, HP, Microsoft, and brick and mortar record stores... Not to mention that they had Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and Jony Ive. Hell, even Microsoft got out of the phone business! The iPhone was a successful company innovating and pivoting. Small companies like iBasso or FiiO jumping into the phone game would be jumping into the deep end. With sharks.
Unless the have to offer something nobody does... Like apple offered a mobile phone that reinvented the mobile phone as a whole. Innovation is the key to success.
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