[Chezzy79]

According to Senn website, the Apple store is the only exclusive dealer allowed to sell the Amperiors (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/headphones-for-dj-over-ear-amperior-_505573)...  for $350, which is $150 more than the retail price of HD25-1-ii, and $225 more than the refurbished price sold by an authorized Senn Refurb Dealer.  Headroom has them on the site, but not in stock, saying "available late April 2012".
 
The only differences between the Amperior and HD25-1-ii is the impedance, material of ear cups, slight change in the sound absorbing foam, and the molded cables with remote.  Not only this doesn't constitute as a $150 upgrade, the change in the cable shape makes it almost impossible to upgrade the cables without compromising the portability of a single-sided cable.  Also the low 18 ohm impedance makes them unsuitable for most amps, unlike the HD25.
 
Also I haven't heard the Amperior but have owned a HD25-1-ii, and have trouble believing the sound difference described here (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/most-excellent-sennheiser-amperior-and-hd-25-1-ii-page-2).  Also, if the slight change in the cup make so much difference, why has nobody tried Markl modding the HD25?
 
Anyways, the innerfidelity review by Tyll sounded like he was desperately trying to convince the HD25 owners that the change, as well as the price, is worth it. Combined with the lack of significant changes, ridiculous mark-up, and Apple store being the exclusive dealer (for now at least), I almost think Senn paid Tyll to do a rave review.  In addition, I've never seen a good review of the Amperior that didn't seem to be influenced by the loudness factor except for Tyll's review.
 
What's your thoughts?

 

[Phifer]

This is a prime example of what should not be done on Head-FI.org IMO.
 
1. Comes on and personally attacks Tyll's credibility by claiming his reviews are not what he honestly believes and that his reviews are down to him being paid.
2. Does nothing but complain about a product that hasn't even been released yet in their country.
3. Talks about how the product sounds when he himself has not even heard it.
 
Look, if you don't like Sennheiser's pricing or distribution model, speak about it with your wallet. Don't come on the forums and bitch while adding nothing constructive. (Yes I know I'm doing the same thing and I apologize)

 

[Chezzy79]

Quote:

This is a prime example of what should not be done on Head-FI.org IMO.
 
1. Comes on and personally attacks Tyll's credibility by claiming his reviews are not what he honestly believes and that his reviews are down to him being paid.
2. Does nothing but complain about a product that hasn't even been released yet in their country.
3. Talks about how the product sounds when he himself has not even heard it.
 
Look, if you don't like Sennheiser's pricing or distribution model, speak about it with your wallet. Don't come on the forums and bitch while adding nothing constructive. (Yes I know I'm doing the same thing and I apologize)

Yeah because it's not like Tyll never made personal attacks against headphones he didn't like.  Not only that, I didn't accuse him of anything except making a review that guaranteed so many things without offering any real information on the sound difference, except that "it's just better".  
 
I just don't know how he could positively assure so many things about the Amperior (including the $150 markup) when everybody else says that the change was minimal.  Guess what, for the biggest headphone company in the world, manufacturing anodized aluminum cup will not constitute $150 markup.  Not only that, he was the CEO of Headroom, who pretty much NEVER says any negative reviews about Sennheiser (they have a very tight relationship).  Also if you look at the "what we think" section of each product in headroom, they will never say anything bad about the product they sell regardless of how bad they actually are.  I don't know about you, but people who have no reason to lie in their review sounds much more believable to me.
 
Anyways, as I made it clear, I didn't make any accusations or claim any facts, and haven't heard the Amperior yet.  If you would like to support Tyll's review, I'd appreciate your input as long as it is unbiased.  Just make sure that the loudness won't be a factor since the impedance is so different.
 
 Also, I made this thread because I owned and liked the HD25-1-ii.  I want to purchase the Amperior if the change actually isn't minimal, and it isn't a desperate attempt to cash-in on the uninformed Apple store buyers.  I just have trouble believing what Tyll said about the Amperior, since every other reviews he put out are so aligned with the general opinions.  

 

[Xinn3r]

Quote:

 
The only differences between the Amperior and HD25-1-ii is the impedance, material of ear cups, slight change in the sound absorbing foam, and the molded cables with remote

 
You answered your question yourself.
Those things you describe ARE what improves a headphone.
 
Difference in material, drivers, and dampening, and cable.
 
Those things you describe are essentially what changes the sound, they're not "ONLY", they're the essentials.
 
What were you expecting? Physical(Appearance) changes? Why change something that isn't broken? The design have received countless of praise....
 
The only thing to improve are the things you described (SQ)
 
Honestly, these last few days I've read too much about flaming.
 
You can, at least, give a reviewer the benefit of doubt, seeing as you haven't heard the Amperior's yourself, and not accuse them of being paid.

Come back here when you have heard the Amperior's and do not agree with what Tyll said

 

[seekadds]

Chezzy, it's all the way you present it. Imagine the title "Amperior: $150 more than HD 25 1-ii, worth it?" A much more typical type of thread that essentially would arrive at the same results as your original post, and it would not make it seem like you are attacking certain people so much. 
 
That said, I have never heard, seen, nor touched either headphone. 

 

[Chezzy79]

Quote:

Chezzy, it's all the way you present it. Imagine the title "Amperior: $150 more than HD 25 1-ii, worth it?" A much more typical type of thread that essentially would arrive at the same results as your original post, and it would not make it seem like you are attacking certain people so much. 
 
That said, I have never heard, seen, nor touched either headphone. 

 
 
Just A/B'd the Amperior with HD25-1-ii.  
 
Long story short... What Senn and Tyll.  Are you serious?  $150 markup and a rave review for this?  WOOOW.  I really doubt anybody who's on a budget will buy the Amperior, especially since Sennheiser is keeping a tight watch on its market price, and is sold EXCLUSIVELY by Apple store according to their website.
 
I do agree that it was a better headphone, if only it was used with an iPhone.  Anything else, especially used with an amp (I used O2 + ODAC), HD25 trumps it.  But honestly, the difference was so subtle that if you use it outside it won't really matter.  The mid was slightly more pronounced, but that was pretty much it, and the FR seems slightly more neutral, but I can't say for sure because I didn't audition it for that long with tracks I had.  But I think it is VERY safe to say that as long as the loudness is kept the same, it will be very hard to tell these phones apart in a blind test.
 
I just want to make it clear, but I'm not doubting Tyll's ability to review headphones.  Matter of fact, almost everything he says is spot on (as far as headphones I've tried), that's why I have so much trouble believing he endorsed the Amperior so much.  It's just that there are way too many factors that leads me to suspecting that there are some things he's not telling us.  

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
 
Just A/B'd the Amperior with HD25-1-ii.  
 
Long story short... What Senn and Tyll.  Are you serious?  $150 markup and a rave review for this?  WOOOW.  I really doubt anybody who's on a budget will buy the Amperior, especially since Sennheiser is keeping a tight watch on its market price, and is sold EXCLUSIVELY by Apple store according to their website.
 
I do agree that it was a better headphone, if only it was used with an iPhone.  Anything else, especially used with an amp (I used O2 + ODAC), HD25 trumps it.  But honestly, the difference was so subtle that if you use it outside it won't really matter.  The mid was slightly more pronounced, but that was pretty much it, and the FR seems slightly more neutral, but I can't say for sure because I didn't audition it for that long with tracks I had.  But I think it is VERY safe to say that as long as the loudness is kept the same, it will be very hard to tell these phones apart in a blind test.
 
I just want to make it clear, but I'm not doubting Tyll's ability to review headphones.  Matter of fact, almost everything he says is spot on (as far as headphones I've tried), that's why I have so much trouble believing he endorsed the Amperior so much.  It's just that there are way too many factors that leads me to suspecting that there are some things he's not telling us.  

 
OK, let me get this straight.  You went to the Apple Store, and tested the headphones through your own DAC and AMP, but couldn't use your music?  None of that makes sense whatsoever.  Why would they let you test the headphones through your DAC and AMP, but not your music?  Stores generally never let you test headphones out on anything but their own equipment (it's a liability concern).  I'm not even sure that the headphones are in the physical stores yet as they were released online today.  Just sayin'.  Another thing to add, lots of things change when pads break in and comfort more to your ears...  Lots of goodness.  I'm not going to deny that their is little change in the actual spectrum of sound, but I do get a feeling you're undercutting what you actually heard or have a huge bias in here.

 

[Chezzy79]

OK, let me get this straight.  You went to the Apple Store, and tested the headphones through your own DAC and AMP, but couldn't use your music?  None of that makes sense whatsoever.  Why would they let you test the headphones through your DAC and AMP, but not your music?  Stores generally never let you test headphones out on anything but their own equipment (it's a liability concern).  I'm not even sure that the headphones are in the physical stores yet as they were released online today.  Just sayin'.  Another thing to add, lots of things change when pads break in and comfort more to your ears...  Lots of goodness.  I'm not going to deny that their is little change in the actual spectrum of sound, but I do get a feeling you're undercutting what you actually heard or have a huge bias in here.

I've never said I tried at the apple store. I know a person who bought to test it out since he can return it if he didn't like it. I stopped by his place To test it out, but the only source I brought there was my phone, and I didnt get much time because it happened this morning and he had to go to work. I probably won't get a chance to a/b it for a while now since I have to drive back to Seattle now (I go to uw Seattle, but my home is in olympia).

Anyways, I didn't have enough time to do all the comparisons I wanted but it is safe to say that sq wise, $150 (or $225 from dakmart) difference is definitely not worth it, and most people who are not audiophiles will not be able to tell the difference except the loudness.

I know Tyll is not dumb enough to be fooled by the loudness factor. But when his opinions are so different from the rest, and considering his relationship with senn, I just think it is a little suspicious.

 

[fatcat28037]

Is that $150 a Sennheiser markup or an Apple markup?

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Is that $150 a Sennheiser markup or an Apple markup?

 
Sennheiser.  Apple can't mark it up, they don't own or price the product, Sennheiser does.  I do also have to note that it isn't a 150 dollar markup, it's only a 30 dollar markup.  The original HD25 IIs MSRPed at 300 although they can be found for 200 today (OP compares MSRP to street price).  So my question to the OP, is the Amperior worth the 30 dollar (not 150, compare relative MSRP prices cause the Amperior's price is bound to drop) upgrade price in comparison to the HD25 IIs?

 

[Xinn3r]

Quote:

 
Sennheiser.  Apple can't mark it up, they don't own or price the product, Sennheiser does.  I do also have to note that it isn't a 150 dollar markup, it's only a 30 dollar markup.  The original HD25 IIs MSRPed at 300 although they can be found for 200 today (OP compares MSRP to street price).  So my question to the OP, is the Amperior worth the 30 dollar (not 150, compare relative MSRP prices cause the Amperior's price is bound to drop) upgrade price in comparison to the HD25 IIs?

 
This.
If you compare them in their MSRP prices, the Amperior will not seem so expensive and ridiculous.
 
Long story short, if you just wait until the market price goes down, the Amperior will be a very budget-friendly product with good SQ, just like the HD25-1 II now...

 

[eke2k6]

This ranks in the top 20 most useless threads I've seen on Head-Fi. It's right up there with the "What headphone would sound good to me, in your opinion" threads.

 

[Gooby]

I think it's worth $150 more.
 
I think it looks better.
 
From many reviews it sounds better.
 
Better materials.
 
Can take a Sennheiser HD 650 cable for better sound (This is available for both HD 25 and amperior).
 
More damping in the ear cups. 
 
From the Sennheiser site: HD 25 is 70 Ohms and the Amperior is only 18 ohms and that means it's easier to drive.
 
Honestly, if you don't want/like it then don't buy it. If you see other people saying it's better than the HD 25 then don't make a thread basically saying "Is it really better and worth $150 more than the HD 25?" Well obviously from other people's reviews it IS better for THEM. And like I said if you tried it and you couldn't make a fair comparison (Didn't use your music, you were in a hurry, didn't have HD 25's with you) than you can't say that it is worth it or not. You must look at the materials, build quality, etc.

 

[robm321]

It sounded better to me.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
The only differences between the Amperior and HD25-1-ii is the impedance, material of ear cups, slight change in the sound absorbing foam, and the molded cables with remote.  Not only this doesn't constitute as a $150 upgrade
 
What's your thoughts?

 
My thoughts are, that even though I don't like seemingly overpriced phones w/o proportional benefit, you should offer a service to dampen and reshell HD25's w/ billet machined aluminum cups anodized in blue for less than the $150 markup.  If you can do that, imagine the money you can make stealing Sennheiser's marketshare by undercutting them!  Let us know how it turns out.  Good luck.