[McCol]

Unless you dislike Audeze's intended tuning. Even with EQ, you can only alter the frequency response. You can't recreate the sound stage of the Cipher tuning without more complex filters that most DAPs are incapable of. With a source filter on a PC or miniDSP device, it's totally fine if you know what you're doing - but that's not what most people do with a typical DAC / amp.

Deleted, really can't be bothered.

Your right and I'm wrong

 

[Monstieur]

Buying a expensive headphone and EQing it to an extreme doesn't make sense, unless you like the original tonality to some degree. LCD-i3 + Cipher Lightning / Reveal + custom EQ is equivalent to some other headphone + custom EQ. The LCD-i / iSine series on their own are completely off target - they are no where close to either Audeze's target or the Harman target.

Your preference may be an anomaly and there's nothing wrong with that because this hobby is ultimately about subjective enjoyment. If it wasn't the Cipher cable wouldn't exist as anyone could plug the LCD-i / iSine headphones into whatever source they had and get Audeze's house sound, but that isn't the case. It also means that you must dislike the sound of the Mobius, LCD-2 + Reveal, etc. because they are closer to the Cipher tuning.

 

[McCol]

Buying a expensive headphone and EQing it to an extreme doesn't make sense, unless you like the original tonality to some degree. LCD-i3 + Cipher Lightning / Reveal + custom EQ is equivalent to some other headphone + custom EQ. The LCD-i / iSine series on their own are completely off target - they are no where close to either Audeze's target or the Harman target.

Your preference may be an anomaly and there's nothing wrong with that because this hobby is ultimately about subjective enjoyment. If it wasn't the Cipher cable wouldn't exist as anyone could plug the LCD-i / iSine headphones into whatever source they had and get Audeze's house sound, but that isn't the case. It also means that you must dislike the sound of the Mobius, LCD-2 + Reveal, etc. because they are closer to the Cipher tuning.

.

 

[bogginhead]

Just wanted to let anyone that might be interested at all here that I have a brand new Burson Playmate dac/ amp w / upgraded op-amps (LME49860 x 4) and 5 year warranty + set of excellent condition iSine 20 w / original accessories and packaging if be willing to trade for a pair of i3. If someone does happen to be just pm me. Thanks!

 

[McCol]

@Monstieur
I owe you an apology.

For some reason I was misreading or misinterpreting what you had written....call it self isolation madness or stubborness - I apologise

Spent a long time re reading your posts, downloaded the Reveal plugin from Audeze and tried Soundsource on my imac with the plugins.

I totally get what you've been trying to tell me now.
Using my idsd micro dac/amp with the i3 and the reveal plug in and noticed a big difference in sound, almost a different earphone, im not sure why I didn't see such a difference with the cipher cable a few days ago, itaybe that I've swapped to the large tips for a better fit, maybe the different tips affected my judgement...I don't know

Then went on to trying the settings that were posted elsewhere and that Audeze emailed me for using with the PEQ on the Fiio M15, again a massive difference, again almost like a different earphone.
The only thing I would say is that they do scale with better sources, i tried the cipher again earlier and I get it now however using the plugins I can now hear the target Audeze were aiming for however with the idsd and the fiio there is more refinement and detail in the delivery.

Once again sorry for being a bit abrupt in my replies and thanks for the explanations.

The only downside is that there doesn't appear to be an I3 option on the Reveal plugins, been switching between isine 20 and lcd i4. I think the curve from Audeze for the uapp peq is based on the iSine 20 as well, I'm curious as to whether they will update with the i3 option

 

[jhwalker]

@Monstieur
I owe you an apology.

For some reason I was misreading or misinterpreting what you had written....call it self isolation madness or stubborness - I apologise

Spent a long time re reading your posts, downloaded the Reveal plugin from Audeze and tried Soundsource on my imac with the plugins.

I totally get what you've been trying to tell me now.
Using my idsd micro dac/amp with the i3 and the reveal plug in and noticed a big difference in sound, almost a different earphone, im not sure why I didn't see such a difference with the cipher cable a few days ago, itaybe that I've swapped to the large tips for a better fit, maybe the different tips affected my judgement...I don't know

Then went on to trying the settings that were posted elsewhere and that Audeze emailed me for using with the PEQ on the Fiio M15, again a massive difference, again almost like a different earphone.
The only thing I would say is that they do scale with better sources, i tried the cipher again earlier and I get it now however using the plugins I can now hear the target Audeze were aiming for however with the idsd and the fiio there is more refinement and detail in the delivery.

Once again sorry for being a bit abrupt in my replies and thanks for the explanations.

The only downside is that there doesn't appear to be an I3 option on the Reveal plugins, been switching between isine 20 and lcd i4. I think the curve from Audeze for the uapp peq is based on the iSine 20 as well, I'm curious as to whether they will update with the i3 option

Audeze has stated elsewhere the i4 option is VERY close to target for i3, but that they also plan to release an update to include an i3-specific setting. So probably best to use i4 for now until the i3 option is available.

 

[Monstieur]

The only downside is that there doesn't appear to be an I3 option on the Reveal plugins, been switching between isine 20 and lcd i4. I think the curve from Audeze for the uapp peq is based on the iSine 20 as well, I'm curious as to whether they will update with the i3 option

The LCD-i4 preset should be used for the LCD-i3 for now. Both models ship with the same Cipher Lightning / Bluetooth cable. Audeze could make a more accurate LCD-i3 preset in the future. The iSine 20 preset is probably inappropriate.

 

[Monstieur]

@McCol You can probably use Viper4Android with impulse response files for the LCD-i3 to replicate the Cipher / Reveal tuning, which is much better than trying to replicate just the frequency domain curve with PEQ. You can record the impulse response files yourself from the Reveal plugin on your PC. I believe Viper4Android supports cross-channel convolution, which will give you the most accurate reproduction of the Cipher / Reveal tuning. You have to take care to record the impulse responses appropriately.

 

[kranebrain]

Anyone know how these soundstage compare to i4s?

 

[Clemmaster]

They're about 75% of the LCD-i4s.

 

[Ant92]

hey guys i need a bit of help. I got the LCD-i3 a few days ago and to me they sound very dark and veiled. I'm confused as to whether this is just how they sound and they're just not for me (i've never heard anything from Audeze or planar tech before) or something is wrong with mine (treble seems quite muted and lower midrange & bass is very thick and impactful). I've tried the various eartips included in addition to some spinfits CP155 in small. The small eartips it came with seem to sit in my ears just fine (supported nicley with the ear hooks), i'm not trying to put them too far in my ears or anything so it doesn't seem like a fit issue. To give some context my current pair of IEMs which have a signature i love are the Final Audio E5000. They're widely considered to have a darkish thick sound with pretty polite treble and a basshead level of bass and yet across the whole spectrum they sound so much clearer and brighter than the lcdi3 (using finals type e ear tips in small). This is strange as from what i can see most people describe the lcdi3 as neutral, detailed and having great clarity. They do sound less bassy when using the 3.5mm cable rather than the cipher but the sound still seems hazy (the midrange sounds especially weird even with the lcdi4 preset in equaliser APO).

 

[Matias]

hey guys i need a bit of help. I got the LCD-i3 a few days ago and to me they sound very dark and veiled. I'm confused as to whether this is just how they sound and they're just not for me (i've never heard anything from Audeze or planar tech before) or something is wrong with mine (treble seems quite muted and lower midrange & bass is very thick and impactful). I've tried the various eartips included in addition to some spinfits CP155 in small. The small eartips it came with seem to sit in my ears just fine (supported nicley with the ear hooks), i'm not trying to put them too far in my ears or anything so it doesn't seem like a fit issue. To give some context my current pair of IEMs which have a signature i love are the Final Audio E5000. They're widely considered to have a darkish thick sound with pretty polite treble and a basshead level of bass and yet across the whole spectrum they sound so much clearer and brighter than the lcdi3 (using finals type e ear tips in small). This is strange as from what i can see most people describe the lcdi3 as neutral, detailed and having great clarity. They do sound less bassy when using the 3.5mm cable rather than the cipher but the sound still seems hazy (the midrange sounds especially weird even with the lcdi4 preset in equaliser APO).

That is why I don't use the Cipher cable or Reveal plug-in: too much bass added. I set up the parametric EQ and reduced quite a bit of the bass they added until it sounds really good to me. Check a few pages back for the PEQs.

 

[Ant92]

That is why I don't use the Cipher cable or Reveal plug-in: too much bass added. I set up the parametric EQ and reduced quite a bit of the bass they added until it sounds really good to me. Check a few pages back for the PEQs.

I looked at the Equaliser APO screenshot you posted and now it sounds way better! Thanks. The issue is now is translating that to all my devices as i also use Mac, Android and iOS. Do you or anyone else have any suggestions on using eq with these platforms? I wish i could save my own PEQ setting to the cypher cable. I’m not interested in any app specific eq as i want it work system wide. I wonder if it's possible to replicate similar sound with just a simple 10 band one, although nothing i did to the one in the audeze app made it sound any good but i’ve never eq’d anything before. I downloaded SoundSource for mac that can do PEQ but copying from APO settings it doesn’t seem to have the Q factor option, is this important?. There is one for bandwidth (set to 0.5 automatically). There wasn’t a filter option called peaking so i choose parametric instead. It doesn’t seem to sounding as good so maybe these settings made a difference, or it could just be the app.

 

[mikejazz]

Ok--a question
I have the i3 and an Android phone. Which I guess means that I can't use the Reveal plug in? I thought that the Cipher did eq mostly. Is there other signal processing it does? I have the Ankar Lightening to usb c adapter. It sounds great with the Cipher, but when I use a nice Dac and silver cables and EQ to the curve that someone published with Uapp---there are improvements in clarity and soundstage. But there are qualities with the Cipher that I like. I know that the cable and Dac of the Cipher are not as good as the cable and Dac that I'm using. Does the Reveal Plugin do other things than eq options? Is the signal processing such that you have no way to duplicate it with eq? (like the Uapp) I've never used an Apple phone, but am willing to swap mine out. (I can do that with T-Mobile) if it will be an improved listening experience. I have an Ibasso DX220 which is Android. Are you saying that there is no way to achieve Audeze's target performance with Android? The DX220 is not as big of a deal---I listen to it with my Tansio-Mirai Zodiacs (fantastic) before bed--the bleed of the i3's wouldn't work there. But I listen to the i3's all day while I'm working. (I design and build high-end speakers). Seems kindof limiting that the target performance of the i3 could only be attained with the Cipher and Apple.

 

[McCol]

Ok--a question
I have the i3 and an Android phone. Which I gues means that I can't use the Reveal plug in? I thought that the Cipher did eq mostly. Is there other signal processing it does? I have the Ankar Lightening to usb c adapter. It sounds great with the Cipher, but when I use a nice Dac and silver cables and EQ to the curve that someone published with Uapp---there are improvements in clarity and soundstage. But there are qualities with the Cipher that I like. I know that the cable and Dac of the Cipher are not as good as the cable and Dac that I'm using. Does the Reveal Plugin do other things than eq options? Is the signal processing such that you have no way to duplicate it with eq? (like the Uapp) I've never used an Apple phone, but am willing to swap mine out. (I can do that with T-Mobile) if it will be an improved listening experience. I have an Ibasso DX220 which is Android. Are you saying that there is no way to achieve Audeze's target performance with Android? The DX220 is not as big of a deal---I listen to it with my Tansio-Mirai Zodiacs (fantastic) before bed--the bleed of the i3's wouldn't work there. But I listen to the i3's all day while I'm working. (I design and build high-end speakers). Seems kindof limiting that the target performance of the i3 could only be attained with the Cipher and Apple.

This is take on this and I know others will think different.

I use the anker cable to connect to my android phone like yourself and use the UAPP eq, I also do the same with my Fiio M15 however I use the 3.5mm cable with the M15.
I also use the Reveal plugin on my mac with soundsource.

Now to me and my almost 50 year old ears I think the various combos I use get close to what I hear when I use the cipher cable on my partners iPhone. However due to the superior DAC section of my dac/amp connected to my mac and the M15 I think the actual sound is better presented, more detail etc etc.

I personally wouldn't swap out my phone to just be able to use the cipher cable with an iPhone.

Just take on it.