[Magol79]

Sajid Amit posted first impressions of the Sundara closed back:


TLDR: he's impressed.

 

[Mhog55]

Definitely intrigued, but concerned about the comments regarding the upper mids/presence region. I prefer a little more warmth and energy in the lower mids. What termination are the cup sockets?

 

[RiftingFlotsam]

Definitely intrigued, but concerned about the comments regarding the upper mids/presence region. I prefer a little more warmth and energy in the lower mids. What termination are the cup sockets?

If it is anything like its siblings it is 3.5mm

 

[carloskleiber]

So...it turns out Hifiman really liked my past reviews. They liked it enough to send me the new Sundara Closed-back for me to sample. How exciting! I guess I would be taking this review a little more seriously this time and actually take my time to describe more aspects of the headphones.

Intro and prelude

About the original Sundara’s- I used to own one alongside my Arya, but quickly sold it to one of my professors since it didn’t provide anything for me that’s better than what the Arya could do. It sounded good enough on its own, I understood it was a step up from my old HE-400i in terms of technical performance, but I didn’t necessarily always prefer it over the 400i. I do have a friend who owns a pair of Sundara’s so I was able to borrow them for a side-by-side comparison with the new, closed-back version.

My relationship with closed-back headphones is that I put a pair on when circumstances requires them, such as recording on-location or commuting on a train or a plane. For some commuting scenarios that aren’t extremely noisy, I actually prefer wearing open headphones to stay connected sonically to the outside world.

When it comes to Hifiman closed-backs, I’ve had a pair of R10D’s. I thought they sounded fairly rich and good, not in any sort of flat/reference kind of way. I tried using them for location recording gigs. They sounded fine for that purpose, but after a few trips I started to leave them home and continue to use my Beyer DT770’s for that purpose. The R10D were too bulky, fragile feeling and didn’t isolate as well; whereas the DT770’s didn’t have to be taken care of, were indestructible, and sounded good enough.

Packaging, design and accessories

Anyway, back to the Sundara closed-back’s. They came in this new Hifiman packaging, which I quite like. There are so few items inside the box, I didn’t have to throw away any unnecessary material. The cables and the headphones are really the only items in the box, along with a foam piece that doubles as a headphone stand. I don’t use those, because my desktop space is scarce as it is, I’m not about to give up more for a headphone stand. It’s nice to have nonetheless. The cable is the same as the rest of the mid-tier Hifiman cans, this sticky rubber type that terminates at a 3.5mm L-shaped plug, with a 6.35mm adapter already attached.

The headband design is actually my favorite from Hifiman, although I don’t own anything that had this headband. It provides the perfect clamping force for me, which might be too strong for others. The ear pads are very soft, and looks to be made of some sort of protein-pleather material. I would prefer them to be firmer.

In terms of the wood cups, they are quite an improvement over the ones you find on the R10D. The R10D wood had me second guessing myself, but the Sundara CB is definitely solid wood (I’m almost 100% sure it’s maple), and makes a nice sturdy sound when knocked on with a knuckle. They are really orange in color; I personally like them because I am familiar with newly made violins of this color, but can also see how they might turn certain people off. My partner, for example, would never wear clothing of that color while I’m a guy who has multiple pieces of bright orange outerwear.

Sound

Now, about the sound- this is where it gets really interesting. My first thought when I put them on was “Wow, they sound exactly like the name”. It is unmistakably a Hifiman house sound, detailed, leans on the bright side, but with a firm bass as the foundation. They sounded almost exactly like how I imagined- intimate soundstage, mid-forward, and stronger bass presence when compared to the OG Sundara’s. One of the reasons I didn’t feel too hot about the OG Sundara’s was the politeness and the lack of that fat bass, which I get with the Arya. The closed-back Sundara has just enough bass to make it a much more fun piece of gear than the open version. They actually remind me of Senn HD600’s in terms of tuning, but not timbre.

That said, the open-back Sundara’s are more neutral, airier, and provide a more “correct” sonic experience, when driven properly. When you compare them side by side out of a hefty amplifier, it’s easy to conclude the open Sundaras are the more balanced pair of headphones in terms of tuning. The thing is though, the closed-back version is 4 dbs more sensitive than the open version, with impedance at 20 vs 37 ohms, which makes them quite a bit easier to come alive. All of these factors combined results in a pair of headphones that has a presentation somewhat like the OG Sundara’s but more intimate, more fun, with abundant bass.

Digging deeper

Taking off the earpads, one can see this star-shaped cutout on a dampening material, much like on the R10P. The drivers also look very different from the OG Sundara’s, so I have reason to believe this is either a product designed from scratch, or took inspirations from the R10P. In either case, I am really impressed.

In terms of isolation, they are fairly okay at diminishing high frequency noises, as long as there is music being played through them. The physics of our universe dictate that low pitched rumbles such as car and plane noises cannot be effectively blocked out by a piece of wood or plastic, since bass energy can only be effectively reduced by a sizeable cavity. So if you’re expecting those to reduce the noise of a plane, you might want to look at ANC cans instead. I am writing this bit onboard an old Boeing 737, and the engine noises are coming through strong. On local commuting, they work fine, and might be a bit too engaging for me to focus on where I’m going. They don’t leak sound outward.

I had a listening night with a friend who is also an audio engineer. We put our gear together and listened to about 11-12 pairs of headphones, among which are HD600’s, HE1000se, Arya, Sundara Closed-back, Stax SR-003 (with heavy EQ because, you know, they need it), Sony 7506, among others. The two most similar pairs beside HE1000se and Arya-se were actually Sundara CB and HD600’s. They are both mid-forward in a similar way, although Sundara CB has much better resolution and bass representation.

For pros

They work great for location recording monitoring, and have since replaced my DT770’s for that purpose. I wouldn’t produce a final mix on them (Why would you do that on a pair of closed headphones?), but have done some successful first-drafts under unfavorably noisy conditions, and have found them to translate quite well. Do keep in mind they are mid-forward. They are roughly in the price range of DT1770’s, I can see them posing a serious threat to the Beyer’s in the pro market.

Final words

There is a term I like to use, “density of sound”, which I can perhaps describe as the sound having a smooth, polished, continuous surface, as opposed to a porous sound that has gaps between bits of information. I personally cannot stand a porous sound, even if the tuning is nearly perfectly flat. The Sundara Closed-back provides a very dense and holographic sound, so dense that I did not feel disappointed listening to them right after a pair of HE1000se’s. It did take me a few seconds to adjust to the tuning, but once my ears accepted the sound signature, I did not want to stop listening. To me, they are just that good.

I have had two pair of open-back Sundara’s at different points, but I ended up passing them on to friends (both of whom love theirs) because they weren’t interesting enough for me, an Arya (and now HE1000se) owner. The Sundara Closed-back? I’m keeping it for sure.

Gear used:

RME Fireface UFX II

Hifiman EF400

Hifiman HM-901r

Drop THX AAA 789


Partial playlist:

Buena Vista Social Club (1997)

Marais: La rêveuse et autres pièces de viole (2003)

Royal Handel ( Eva Zaïcik & Le Consort, 2021)

William Lawes- Consort Music (Fretwork, 2005)

 

[Mhog55]

So...it turns out Hifiman really liked my past reviews. They liked it enough to send me the new Sundara Closed-back for me to sample. How exciting! I guess I would be taking this review a little more seriously this time and actually take my time to describe more aspects of the headphones.





Intro and prelude

About the original Sundara’s- I used to own one alongside my Arya, but quickly sold it to one of my professors since it didn’t provide anything for me that’s better than what the Arya could do. It sounded good enough on its own, I understood it was a step up from my old HE-400i in terms of technical performance, but I didn’t necessarily always prefer it over the 400i. I do have a friend who owns a pair of Sundara’s so I was able to borrow them for a side-by-side comparison with the new, closed-back version.

My relationship with closed-back headphones is that I put a pair on when circumstances requires them, such as recording on-location or commuting on a train or a plane. For some commuting scenarios that aren’t extremely noisy, I actually prefer wearing open headphones to stay connected sonically to the outside world.

When it comes to Hifiman closed-backs, I’ve had a pair of R10D’s. I thought they sounded fairly rich and good, not in any sort of flat/reference kind of way. I tried using them for location recording gigs. They sounded fine for that purpose, but after a few trips I started to leave them home and continue to use my Beyer DT770’s for that purpose. The R10D were too bulky, fragile feeling and didn’t isolate as well; whereas the DT770’s didn’t have to be taken care of, were indestructible, and sounded good enough.

Packaging, design and accessories

Anyway, back to the Sundara closed-back’s. They came in this new Hifiman packaging, which I quite like. There are so few items inside the box, I didn’t have to throw away any unnecessary material. The cables and the headphones are really the only items in the box, along with a foam piece that doubles as a headphone stand. I don’t use those, because my desktop space is scarce as it is, I’m not about to give up more for a headphone stand. It’s nice to have nonetheless. The cable is the same as the rest of the mid-tier Hifiman cans, this sticky rubber type that terminates at a 3.5mm L-shaped plug, with a 6.35mm adapter already attached.

The headband design is actually my favorite from Hifiman, although I don’t own anything that had this headband. It provides the perfect clamping force for me, which might be too strong for others. The ear pads are very soft, and looks to be made of some sort of protein-pleather material. I would prefer them to be firmer.

In terms of the wood cups, they are quite an improvement over the ones you find on the R10D. The R10D wood had me second guessing myself, but the Sundara CB is definitely solid wood (I’m almost 100% sure it’s maple), and makes a nice sturdy sound when knocked on with a knuckle. They are really orange in color; I personally like them because I am familiar with newly made violins of this color, but can also see how they might turn certain people off. My partner, for example, would never wear clothing of that color while I’m a guy who has multiple pieces of bright orange outerwear.



Sound

Now, about the sound- this is where it gets really interesting. My first thought when I put them on was “Wow, they sound exactly like the name”. It is unmistakably a Hifiman house sound, detailed, leans on the bright side, but with a firm bass as the foundation. They sounded almost exactly like how I imagined- intimate soundstage, mid-forward, and stronger bass presence when compared to the OG Sundara’s. One of the reasons I didn’t feel too hot about the OG Sundara’s was the politeness and the lack of that fat bass, which I get with the Arya. The closed-back Sundara has just enough bass to make it a much more fun piece of gear than the open version. They actually remind me of Senn HD600’s in terms of tuning, but not timbre.

That said, the open-back Sundara’s are more neutral, airier, and provide a more “correct” sonic experience, when driven properly. When you compare them side by side out of a hefty amplifier, it’s easy to conclude the open Sundaras are the more balanced pair of headphones in terms of tuning. The thing is though, the closed-back version is 4 dbs more sensitive than the open version, with impedance at 20 vs 37 ohms, which makes them quite a bit easier to come alive. All of these factors combined results in a pair of headphones that has a presentation somewhat like the OG Sundara’s but more intimate, more fun, with abundant bass.

Digging deeper

Taking off the earpads, one can see this star-shaped cutout on a dampening material, much like on the R10P. The drivers also look very different from the OG Sundara’s, so I have reason to believe this is either a product designed from scratch, or took inspirations from the R10P. In either case, I am really impressed.



In terms of isolation, they are fairly okay at diminishing high frequency noises, as long as there is music being played through them. The physics of our universe dictate that low pitched rumbles such as car and plane noises cannot be effectively blocked out by a piece of wood or plastic, since bass energy can only be effectively reduced by a sizeable cavity. So if you’re expecting those to reduce the noise of a plane, you might want to look at ANC cans instead. I am writing this bit onboard an old Boeing 737, and the engine noises are coming through strong. On local commuting, they work fine, and might be a bit too engaging for me to focus on where I’m going. They don’t leak sound outward.

I had a listening night with a friend who is also an audio engineer. We put our gear together and listened to about 11-12 pairs of headphones, among which are HD600’s, HE1000se, Arya, Sundara Closed-back, Stax SR-003 (with heavy EQ because, you know, they need it), Sony 7506, among others. The two most similar pairs beside HE1000se and Arya-se were actually Sundara CB and HD600’s. They are both mid-forward in a similar way, although Sundara CB has much better resolution and bass representation.

For pros

They work great for location recording monitoring, and have since replaced my DT770’s for that purpose. I wouldn’t produce a final mix on them (Why would you do that on a pair of closed headphones?), but have done some successful first-drafts under unfavorably noisy conditions, and have found them to translate quite well. Do keep in mind they are mid-forward. They are roughly in the price range of DT1770’s, I can see them posing a serious threat to the Beyer’s in the pro market.

Final words

There is a term I like to use, “density of sound”, which I can perhaps describe as the sound having a smooth, polished, continuous surface, as opposed to a porous sound that has gaps between bits of information. I personally cannot stand a porous sound, even if the tuning is nearly perfectly flat. The Sundara Closed-back provides a very dense and holographic sound, so dense that I did not feel disappointed listening to them right after a pair of HE1000se’s. It did take me a few seconds to adjust to the tuning, but once my ears accepted the sound signature, I did not want to stop listening. To me, they are just that good.

I have had two pair of open-back Sundara’s at different points, but I ended up passing them on to friends (both of whom love theirs) because they weren’t interesting enough for me, an Arya (and now HE1000se) owner. The Sundara Closed-back? I’m keeping it for sure.



Gear used:

RME Fireface UFX II

Hifiman EF400

Hifiman HM-901r

Drop THX AAA 789


Partial playlist:

Buena Vista Social Club (1997)

Marais: La rêveuse et autres pièces de viole (2003)

Royal Handel ( Eva Zaïcik & Le Consort, 2021)

William Lawes- Consort Music (Fretwork, 2005)

Your sound analysis corresponds with the majority of YouTube reviews I've watched. Everything but perhaps the brightness in the upper frequencies. I definitely want to try these. Who knows, they might turn out to be the first Hifiman cans I'll keep since the original 400s. Did you detect any hollowness or annoying reverb?

 

[carloskleiber]

Your sound analysis corresponds with the majority of YouTube reviews I've watched. Everything but perhaps the brightness in the upper frequencies. I definitely want to try these. Who knows, they might turn out to be the first Hifiman cans I'll keep since the original 400s. Did you detect any hollowness or annoying reverb?

They are not very forgiving of bad recordings in a way that if a recording sounds hollow, they will reveal it. The bottom sounds wetter than the upper parts, perhaps it's the foam around the drivers absorbing some of that hf.

 

[Kevintj604]

I just got some headtime with these and I think they'll be a polarizing headphone. I tried pairing them with an A&K KANN Alpha, iFi Hip Dac, iFi Gryphon and I didn't like the sound at all. I've owned the Sundara, HE6SE V2, Ananda, HE1000V2 and currently daily drive an Arya Stealth so I'm very used to the HiFiMan house sound and honestly was totally underwhelmed by them.

I own four closed backs currently and all of them are in higher price brackets so maybe I was expecting more from what they offer. I was hoping for a Sundara with better bass response and they honestly don't sound anything like that.

Glad my local store had them in stock so I could try them but they won't be added to my collection.

 

[Mhog55]

I just got some headtime with these and I think they'll be a polarizing headphone. I tried pairing them with an A&K KANN Alpha, iFi Hip Dac, iFi Gryphon and I didn't like the sound at all. I've owned the Sundara, HE6SE V2, Ananda, HE1000V2 and currently daily drive an Arya Stealth so I'm very used to the HiFiMan house sound and honestly was totally underwhelmed by them.

I own four closed backs currently and all of them are in higher price brackets so maybe I was expecting more from what they offer. I was hoping for a Sundara with better bass response and they honestly don't sound anything like that.

Glad my local store had them in stock so I could try them but they won't be added to my collection.

I haven't been a big fan of the Hifiman house sound, so there's a decent possibility that I might actually like these. What didn't you care for, other than the deviation from the norm?

 

[Kevintj604]

I haven't been a big fan of the Hifiman house sound, so there's a decent possibility that I might actually like these. What didn't you care for, other than the deviation from the norm?

They sounded quite veiled to my ears. I've been spending a lot of time with the Aeon Noire lately and was hoping these would dethrone or come a bit closer from a technical standpoint and the Noire's are handedly more resolving, more comfortable and overall a much more balanced listen. The Sundara CB is a bit more punchy in macro and micro dynamics as the all of the DCA headphones are quite dynamically blunted but that's about all I liked on the Sundara CB.

Female vocals especially sounded compressed and the reference tuning that the Sundara is known for is not really present in the Sundara CB.

 

[Mhog55]

They sounded quite veiled to my ears. I've been spending a lot of time with the Aeon Noire lately and was hoping these would dethrone or come a bit closer from a technical standpoint and the Noire's are handedly more resolving, more comfortable and overall a much more balanced listen. The Sundara CB is a bit more punchy in macro and micro dynamics as the all of the DCA headphones are quite dynamically blunted but that's about all I liked on the Sundara CB.

Female vocals especially sounded compressed and the reference tuning that the Sundara is known for is not really present in the Sundara CB.

Hopefully the veil, compression, and resolution will improve improves with time. I'm not after end all resolution, but rather more of a fun character that doesn't highlight poor recordings. The dynamics definitely sound like they're there. I wouldn't expect this headphone to be as technical, balanced, or or precise as the Hifiman egg shaped offerings. Are the upper mids and lower treble a little more reserved and restrained than the open Sundara?

 

[Kevintj604]

Hopefully the veil, compression, and resolution will improve improves with time. I'm not after end all resolution, but rather more of a fun character that doesn't highlight poor recordings. The dynamics definitely sound like they're there. I wouldn't expect this headphone to be as technical, balanced, or or precise as the Hifiman egg shaped offerings. Are the upper mids and lower treble a little more reserved and restrained than the open Sundara?

I listened to a freshly opened demo unit and HiFiMans really benefit with burn-in so hopefully I just had a non optimized experience. The treble is one of the problem areas though. I found it to not have enough energy which probably accounts for the perceived veil. The Aeon Noire leans a tad brighter as well so it could be a bit of bias to that sound as I’ve been spending a lot of time with it lately.

In all honesty though I wasn’t impressed with the Sundara CB and I’m a bit of a HiFiMan fan so it was a disappointment. Hopefully I can go back and listen a bit longer. I’d like to do an A/B with a Sundara to see more of the differences.

 

[dima83]

Hello everybody. I am new around here and would like to share my impressions of closed sundaras. I have had them for two days and I still haven't finished burn in but what I can say is that I am finding them very interesting. they are very different from the open version. these have an intimate soundstage, are darker but have great detail and under 500 euros in Europe I have never heard a headphone with such a precise bass. powerful but that does not cover the other frequencies, in general on the mids and lows it is very detailed. I find it very good for listening to rock and metal. the open sundara although objectively excellent I did not like so much. I find this more fun.

 

[Mhog55]

Hello everybody. I am new around here and would like to share my impressions of closed sundaras. I have had them for two days and I still haven't finished burn in but what I can say is that I am finding them very interesting. they are very different from the open version. these have an intimate soundstage, are darker but have great detail and under 500 euros in Europe I have never heard a headphone with such a precise bass. powerful but that does not cover the other frequencies, in general on the mids and lows it is very detailed. I find it very good for listening to rock and metal. the open sundara although objectively excellent I did not like so much. I find this more fun.

You have my attention. All these comments regarding the bass sounds very nice. How would you describe the upper mids and lower treble? Could they potentially be problematic for those who are moderately treble sensitive?

 

[dima83]

You have my attention. All these comments regarding the bass sounds very nice. How would you describe the upper mids and lower treble? Could they potentially be problematic for those who are moderately treble sensitive?

high mids seem a bit recessed. and this probably makes the headset darker than the open version. in addition to the fact that because it is closed there is less air between the instruments. lower treble is not as accurate as in the open version. while high treble sounds very similar to that of the open sundars. in any case the headphones still need to play a lot of hours so it is not a definitive judgment. the headphones are truly exceptional in the low frequencies where instruments such as bass and drums become very realistic. when the music becomes fast the sounds are always very defined. I also really like the mids. it is definitely not a headset for everyone or for all genres of music. with some recordings they are amazing. with others a little less. before buying it I suggest you try it a bit and certainly after many hours of burn-in
Sorry if my English is not very good

 

[Beagle]

Differing opinions and experiences are interesting. I wonder if those who did not like the closed version were perhaps expecting the same sound as the open, and the folks who like the closed are not thinking about a closed version of the open Sundara, but something unique unto itself.