Introducing the HIFIMAN EF400 Balanced Desktop DAC/Amplifier!

[timiambeing]

@timiambeing as you can see in some of my previous posts, I am having the same problem with my Arya SE.
On the balanced out I get channel imbalance as I have to keep the volume pretty low (like 9 o clock).
With the Sundara on the 3.5mm out it is fine.

Thanks yes I saw your posts - I don’t know why they make these amplifiers so loud, surely being able to properly drive a transducer is all about control not volume? Perhaps you can’t have one without the other? But you would have thought HiFiMan would have designed their amp for their headphones, with a leaflet in the box discussing which output for which headphone and why? Cough, cough @TeamHiFiMAN?

 

[Hyde00]

Hey guys I'm in a weird spot here, need some suggestions.

I got Violectric V200 + Soekris 1541 based on my friend's suggestion. The combo sounds great but there are some parts that's just not to my preference. Like ignoring technicality (because it's good) but now I'm thinking tonal preference.

I find 1541 in general just isn't very vocal forward, and V200 is *slightly* not vocal forward, as a result this combo is just not very vocal forward. Which is my preference (for example I like the Grado sound).

Now the second issue is that I find this combo smooth out treble. As a result I think it's for smoother treble but everything just sounded slightly muted for rock. Where you want that edgy guitar distortion and that snap from snare drum. V200 also roll off high treble I believe so it reduce air a little bit.

So I talked to my friend again then he says the issue is that....... there isn't too many gear that's tuned to my taste, because what I want can generally be described as "shouty" and that's generally not a very desirable audiophile trait, that being said he says I might like EF400 and here I am LOL.

Do you guys find this has forward vocal or enough treble to keep things interesting? Current daily driver is Denon D5200 (24 Ohm) would that be an issue on the high power output? Past gear also include Dragonfly Red LOL which I like the tonal balance. I've also tried Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 for 1 week and the tonal balance is good but just a little bit "lean" sounding. Some past headphones I thought sounded good were R7DX, TH-X00 and Grado SR225. Just to give some background info on my sound preference. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh music I listen to is female acoustic / rock / pop generally emphasis on guitar / violin / piano. For rock then emphasis on guitar / snare drum. Thanks!

 

[velemar1]

I missed out on that coupon opportunity buying the EF400 from Amazon... darnit

 

[velemar1]

EF400 sounds great. I use it in NOS mode. Very smooth relaxed, well-layered, realistic sounding, though not as punchy and well-defined with transients as a Bifrost 2 (whose multibit implementation marries the best qualities of both R2R and delta sigma). I think it’s particularly great for classical, metal and heavy Rock music as it smoothens the sound to a degree that prevents fatigue. Though others would probably prefer a more dynamic punchy sound for those genres and for them the Bifrost 2 is the one to beat.

 

[Johnfg465vd]

Hey guys I'm in a weird spot here, need some suggestions.

I got Violectric V200 + Soekris 1541 based on my friend's suggestion. The combo sounds great but there are some parts that's just not to my preference. Like ignoring technicality (because it's good) but now I'm thinking tonal preference.

I find 1541 in general just isn't very vocal forward, and V200 is *slightly* not vocal forward, as a result this combo is just not very vocal forward. Which is my preference (for example I like the Grado sound).

Now the second issue is that I find this combo smooth out treble. As a result I think it's for smoother treble but everything just sounded slightly muted for rock. Where you want that edgy guitar distortion and that snap from snare drum. V200 also roll off high treble I believe so it reduce air a little bit.

So I talked to my friend again then he says the issue is that....... there isn't too many gear that's tuned to my taste, because what I want can generally be described as "shouty" and that's generally not a very desirable audiophile trait, that being said he says I might like EF400 and here I am LOL.

Do you guys find this has forward vocal or enough treble to keep things interesting? Current daily driver is Denon D5200 (24 Ohm) would that be an issue on the high power output? Past gear also include Dragonfly Red LOL which I like the tonal balance. I've also tried Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 for 1 week and the tonal balance is good but just a little bit "lean" sounding. Some past headphones I thought sounded good were R7DX, TH-X00 and Grado SR225. Just to give some background info on my sound preference. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh music I listen to is female acoustic / rock / pop generally emphasis on guitar / violin / piano. For rock then emphasis on guitar / snare drum. Thanks!

The EF400 is good but does not seem like the right device for you. It's got a slightly laid back sound so no forward vocals and while I don't think you'll find the treble muted here, it's not as energetic as some of the DS DACs.

If you've already tried Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 & V200 + Soekris 1541 and were not satisfied then, maybe think about changing the Headphones. You will not get huge differences from swapping DAC/AMPs. Something like the Clear MG or Blessing 2 seems like what you'd like.

 

[Hyde00]

EF400 sounds great. I use it in NOS mode. Very smooth relaxed, well-layered, realistic sounding, though not as punchy and well-defined with transients as a Bifrost 2 (whose multibit implementation marries the best qualities of both R2R and delta sigma). I think it’s particularly great for classical, metal and heavy Rock music as it smoothens the sound to a degree that prevents fatigue. Though others would probably prefer a more dynamic punchy sound for those genres and for them the Bifrost 2 is the one to beat.

The EF400 is good but does not seem like the right device for you. It's got a slightly laid back sound so no forward vocals and while I don't think you'll find the treble muted here, it's not as energetic as some of the DS DACs.

If you've already tried Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 & V200 + Soekris 1541 and were not satisfied then, maybe think about changing the Headphones. You will not get huge differences from swapping DAC/AMPs. Something like the Clear MG or Blessing 2 seems like what you'd like.

Gotcha, thanks for the replies. I guess I need to re-think about this plan then.

LOL good thing I asked first before diving head in hahaha.

Thanks!

 

[2ManyDACs]

Hey guys I'm in a weird spot here, need some suggestions.

I got Violectric V200 + Soekris 1541 based on my friend's suggestion. The combo sounds great but there are some parts that's just not to my preference. Like ignoring technicality (because it's good) but now I'm thinking tonal preference.

I find 1541 in general just isn't very vocal forward, and V200 is *slightly* not vocal forward, as a result this combo is just not very vocal forward. Which is my preference (for example I like the Grado sound).

Now the second issue is that I find this combo smooth out treble. As a result I think it's for smoother treble but everything just sounded slightly muted for rock. Where you want that edgy guitar distortion and that snap from snare drum. V200 also roll off high treble I believe so it reduce air a little bit.

So I talked to my friend again then he says the issue is that....... there isn't too many gear that's tuned to my taste, because what I want can generally be described as "shouty" and that's generally not a very desirable audiophile trait, that being said he says I might like EF400 and here I am LOL.

Do you guys find this has forward vocal or enough treble to keep things interesting? Current daily driver is Denon D5200 (24 Ohm) would that be an issue on the high power output? Past gear also include Dragonfly Red LOL which I like the tonal balance. I've also tried Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 for 1 week and the tonal balance is good but just a little bit "lean" sounding. Some past headphones I thought sounded good were R7DX, TH-X00 and Grado SR225. Just to give some background info on my sound preference. Thanks!

EDIT: Oh music I listen to is female acoustic / rock / pop generally emphasis on guitar / violin / piano. For rock then emphasis on guitar / snare drum. Thanks!

I have the Denon AH-D9200 and listened to the AH-D7200. Assuming the D5200 has a similar sound, I echo Johnfg's thoughts on switching out headphones. Considering where your tastes lean, thinking about all the headphones I have on hand I'd recommend trying the Audeze LCD-X. In a perfect world you'd be able to audition them with your gear before buying. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Hyde00]

I have the Denon AH-D9200 and listened to the AH-D7200. Assuming the D5200 has a similar sound, I echo Johnfg's thoughts on switching out headphones. Considering where your tastes lean, thinking about all the headphones I have on hand I'd recommend trying the Audeze LCD-X. In a perfect world you'd be able to audition them with your gear before buying. Enjoy the journey.

I think D5200 sits in the middle between D9200 (bright) and D7200 (dark) in terms of sound signature. Oh I forgot my requirement is that I need closed back for sound isolation, so maybe I should check out the LCD-XC. I'll see if I can demo it locally first, thanks!

 

[timiambeing]

Well thanks guys for all the info and personal experiences of the EF400 with my headphones especially, I've given the EF400 all afternoon yesterday and all last night playing away to itself and I must say... I'm sadly a bit underwhelmed! Now I've been using R2R DAC's in the main speaker system for a while (Denafrips Pontus II at the moment) but this isn't quite what I was expecting, and yes I know they can take 100's of hours to burn in, but after 24 or so the character is usually there at least in my experience.

My present system is a Pi4/AlloDigiOne coax feeding a Soncoz LA-QXD1 DAC and then balanced into a SPL Phonitor One amp. The SPL only has single ended outputs so I'm using the stock cable with the Edition XS's. I didn't switch back and forth as that is rude to a new arrival I always think ( ) so I left the EF400 on like I say playing to itself. This morning however I had a proper short listen for a few minutes and thought, hmm, this doesn't seem what I expected? Still, curious now to see what the differences between both rigs were I set them both up together and had Roon playing the same 'This is the Kit' track to both.

All I can say is the EF400 seems to lose the multi layered texture I've been loving on these Edition SX headphones, it seems to gloss over detail information and focuses on the main elements of the music. Its not at all awful and if was my first all in one I would just have said it was 'ok', nothing that special, but fine for an all in one. But when I went back to the other rig the extra texture and detail was immediately evident, by that I mean such as the bowing of a cello string, or in this case the multiple layers of sounds and effects in the TITK track - its like you can hear not just the string, but the hairs on it (daft I know!). Anyway, I usually only listen to classical on the headphone rig, but I was burning the EF400 in with more dynamic stuff, hence the TITK track. So I loaded a Sibelius tone poem I had been listening to on the Soncoz/SPL rig just the previous morning, drooling over the bass and depth to the music on these amazing new headphones (just a week or so old and loving them!).

On the EF 400 the bass immediately felt much looser by comparison, I tried OS but the NOS setting it had been on since arriving was the best option. Deep bass but a bit woolly and undefined, which made me think of impedance and control - but I can't get the volume knob past 9 o'clock and that's with -10dB headroom set in Roon.

On my speaker system the Denafrips DAC's I have owned always had plenty of detail and texture, its just the timbre and 'reallness'of the delivery that stands out, the instruments sound like real instruments. The EF400 maybe hasn't got to this stage but the detail isn't there and the delivery is quite different.

All in all I think the EF400 will go back, I realise it will improve over much longer time, but if it did it would only reach (likely) very similar levels to the separates system I already have. Maybe after buying these amazing headphones I should have put a few more pennies away and gone for more of a jump in the amp or DAC department, it seems these are pretty level in price - but it was the rave reviews of the R2R DAC element that got me. Ah well, we have to listen ourselves don't we!

 

[Johnfg465vd]

Well thanks guys for all the info and personal experiences of the EF400 with my headphones especially, I've given the EF400 all afternoon yesterday and all last night playing away to itself and I must say... I'm sadly a bit underwhelmed! Now I've been using R2R DAC's in the main speaker system for a while (Denafrips Pontus II at the moment) but this isn't quite what I was expecting, and yes I know they can take 100's of hours to burn in, but after 24 or so the character is usually there at least in my experience.

My present system is a Pi4/AlloDigiOne coax feeding a Soncoz LA-QXD1 DAC and then balanced into a SPL Phonitor One amp. The SPL only has single ended outputs so I'm using the stock cable with the Edition XS's. I didn't switch back and forth as that is rude to a new arrival I always think ( ) so I left the EF400 on like I say playing to itself. This morning however I had a proper short listen for a few minutes and thought, hmm, this doesn't seem what I expected? Still, curious now to see what the differences between both rigs were I set them both up together and had Roon playing the same 'This is the Kit' track to both.

All I can say is the EF400 seems to lose the multi layered texture I've been loving on these Edition SX headphones, it seems to gloss over detail information and focuses on the main elements of the music. Its not at all awful and if was my first all in one I would just have said it was 'ok', nothing that special, but fine for an all in one. But when I went back to the other rig the extra texture and detail was immediately evident, by that I mean such as the bowing of a cello string, or in this case the multiple layers of sounds and effects in the TITK track - its like you can hear not just the string, but the hairs on it (daft I know!). Anyway, I usually only listen to classical on the headphone rig, but I was burning the EF400 in with more dynamic stuff, hence the TITK track. So I loaded a Sibelius tone poem I had been listening to on the Soncoz/SPL rig just the previous morning, drooling over the bass and depth to the music on these amazing new headphones (just a week or so old and loving them!).

On the EF 400 the bass immediately felt much looser by comparison, I tried OS but the NOS setting it had been on since arriving was the best option. Deep bass but a bit woolly and undefined, which made me think of impedance and control - but I can't get the volume knob past 9 o'clock and that's with -10dB headroom set in Roon.

On my speaker system the Denafrips DAC's I have owned always had plenty of detail and texture, its just the timbre and 'reallness'of the delivery that stands out, the instruments sound like real instruments. The EF400 maybe hasn't got to this stage but the detail isn't there and the delivery is quite different.

All in all I think the EF400 will go back, I realise it will improve over much longer time, but if it did it would only reach (likely) very similar levels to the separates system I already have. Maybe after buying these amazing headphones I should have put a few more pennies away and gone for more of a jump in the amp or DAC department, it seems these are pretty level in price - but it was the rave reviews of the R2R DAC element that got me. Ah well, we have to listen ourselves don't we!

One should always be wary of rave reviews in this hobby. Some thing to consider before returning the EF400, I highly recommend using Balanced cables for best sound quality with Edition XS, if you still do not like it then best to return it. Wanting the EF400 to perform as good as Pontus II is a very tall order, at best it will rival and beat similar price category DAC/AMPs at the cost of less features (Inputs, Pre-Amp...).

 

[cactus_farmer]

Has anyone compared the EF400 to the Schiit Jotunheim 2 (with multibit card)? Which is the warmer/darker sounding one?

 

[cactus_farmer]

Can the EF400 drive the HD800s single ended well? I have heard a reviewer saying the soundstage goes flat and shrinks inwards, and the bass is even more limp than usual?

 

[Hyde00]

Has anyone compared the EF400 to the Schiit Jotunheim 2 (with multibit card)? Which is the warmer/darker sounding one?

I'll be honest I never get to try EF400 but since no one is replying I'll give it a shot.

I've tried the Bifrost 2 + Jotunheim 2 and I thought it was neutral bright balance. So my educated guess is that EF400 will be warmer.

But then again it depends on where you come from, my friend who come from THX AAA thought this combo is warm, I come from Dragonfly Red and I thought this was slight lean/cold ish.

Can the EF400 drive the HD800s single ended well? I have heard a reviewer saying the soundstage goes flat and shrinks inwards, and the bass is even more limp than usual?

From the passion for sound review I think he says this unit doesn't do high impedance headphone well, he only like it for low impedance headphone.

Maybe it has more current but less voltage swing? Again I'm not expert in this let's see if anyone else can chime in.

 

[slsmaster]

I also had some real quality time comparing the EF400 to my IFi Micro iDSD Signature using my Arya v3 for 2 weeks now.

At first I also was a bit underwhelmed regarding the EF400 because of me being so used to the IFi sound and expecting the EF400 to be similar but better in the same qualities.

The EF400 has noticeably less weight in its sound (Bass feels more nibel but not as heavy), resulting in an more airy and slightly more spacious presentation. Also it’s treble is very linear with no rollof in the upper register (I feel the IFi has a sleight rollof), but don’t get me wrong it is not harsh if the recording is good.

This whole tuning of the EF400 doesn’t go very well with pop music or any other recording that requires more oomph. Recordings that are sibilant also don’t go well with it in my opinion.

But it is an absolut dream with more complex quality music that requires speed and accuracy, for instance I massively preferred the EF400 for Train Song by Holly Cole, Tamacun by Rodrigo y Gabriela or Heart of Gold by Neil Young.
The IFi handles songs with a pronounced bass line better like Opera by Emmanual Santarroma, Getting Jiggy With It by Will Smith or Black Shoes by Felix Laband.

My initial plan before buying the EF400 was to sell the IFi and only keep the EF400, but now I realized that these two units just sound so different with the same headphone, that it is worth keeping both around.

Some more notes about the EF400:
NOS can be a bit rough sounding on some recordings, so I wouldn’t settle for one setting but rather switch depending on the recording as I find OS to be the more technical/clean presentation, however it can be to technical/clean in some instances (violins).

Also I did find the Arya v3 to be even more airy sounding when using it via XLR with an HE6SE cable instead of its stock 6.3mm cable.
I did prefer it with its stock cable when using it with the EF400, as using XLR with the Arya v3 would remove to much weight for my taste.

 

[JerseyD]

I also had some real quality time comparing the EF400 to my IFi Micro iDSD Signature using my Arya v3 for 2 weeks now.

At first I also was a bit underwhelmed regarding the EF400 because of me being so used to the IFi sound and expecting the EF400 to be similar but better in the same qualities.

The EF400 has noticeably less weight in its sound (Bass feels more nibel but not as heavy), resulting in an more airy and slightly more spacious presentation. Also it’s treble is very linear with no rollof in the upper register (I feel the IFi has a sleight rollof), but don’t get me wrong it is not harsh if the recording is good.

This whole tuning of the EF400 doesn’t go very well with pop music or any other recording that requires more oomph. Recordings that are sibilant also don’t go well with it in my opinion.

But it is an absolut dream with more complex quality music that requires speed and accuracy, for instance I massively preferred the EF400 for Train Song by Holly Cole, Tamacun by Rodrigo y Gabriela or Heart of Gold by Neil Young.
The IFi handles songs with a pronounced bass line better like Opera by Emmanual Santarroma, Getting Jiggy With It by Will Smith or Black Shoes by Felix Laband.

My initial plan before buying the EF400 was to sell the IFi and only keep the EF400, but now I realized that these two units just sound so different with the same headphone, that it is worth keeping both around.

Some more notes about the EF400:
NOS can be a bit rough sounding on some recordings, so I wouldn’t settle for one setting but rather switch depending on the recording as I find OS to be the more technical/clean presentation, however it can be to technical/clean in some instances (violins).

Also I did find the Arya v3 to be even more airy sounding when using it via XLR with an HE6SE cable instead of its stock 6.3mm cable.
I did prefer it with its stock cable when using it with the EF400, as using XLR with the Arya v3 would remove to much weight for my taste.

Thanks for this. Looking to upgrade from my iFi Micro iDSD BL for use with Ether2 and was strongly considering the EF400. This is the first I've heard of the EF400 being light on the bass and lacking oomph. Anyone else care to chime in on this aspect of the EF400's sound?

Also would have expected the XLR out to have the most weight of the various headphone outputs based on the specs and description by Hifiman.