Introducing the Audeze LCD-R!

[Dandrac]

Yep, they are normal Audeze mini-XLR pinouts at the headphone. They just switch it up at the termination to match the RAAL pinouts. You can use any normal mini-XLR cable for standard amps.

That being said, make sure the amp you are using will work. Remember, 2ohm load... what amp are you thinking about trying them with?

I was thinking of just running a single AHB2 in stereo in my living room instead of using them as mono-blocks and use the other for Sundara(when I finally borrow/try one) and/or LCDR duty since I already have the headphone adapter.

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

I was thinking of just running a single AHB2 in stereo in my living room instead of using them as mono-blocks and pull one for Sundara(when I finally borrow/try one) and/or LCDR duty since I already have the headphone adapter.

I can't comment on the amp's stability with the LCD-R's low impedance but you should note that the LCD-R are very sensitive headphones. Beyond the risk of damaging their drivers you might consider the potential for hum or noise from the amp.

 

[Clemmaster]

I can't comment on the amp's stability with the LCD-R's low impedance but you should note that the LCD-R are very sensitive headphones. Beyond the risk of damaging their drivers you might consider the potential for hum or noise from the amp.

The AHB2 has several gain settings and can get quite low, which is great for headphone use.

 

[paradoxper]

Alternatively you can adapt the RAAL interface which will work with virtually any amplifier.

 

[cwoo]

I can't comment on the amp's stability with the LCD-R's low impedance but you should note that the LCD-R are very sensitive headphones. Beyond the risk of damaging their drivers you might consider the potential for hum or noise from the amp.

yeah, at what @Tchoupitoulas said... make sure you have full control over that gain and volume. They are insanely sensitive and draw a lot of current. A small touch of the volume knob could be disastrous. The RAAL adapter box helps, but if @Clemmaster feels good about the AHB2 low gain setting, you may be ok. I have no idea if this is a good pairing.

Normally, the LCD-R can be an amp destroyer if the the amp can't handle the load or doesn't have protection built in to shut it down. If you have an amp that can handle the load, then the LCD-R stands to be blown out by the power of the amp since it is so sensitive.

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

Alternatively you can adapt the RAAL interface which will work with virtually any amplifier.

Yes, this is a great point.

There are lots of great options available to you once you use the Raal interface. The best I've heard - and it's only from a small sample - is with the DNA Stratus (v3), which makes for a beautiful, synergistic pairing. You might think an amp that pairs well with high impedance headphones (300-ohm ZMFs and Sennheisers as well as 200-ohm LCD-4s) would pair poorly with the LCD-R but the combination just works thanks to the interface.

 

[Clemmaster]

The LCD-R would present 10x the impedance to the amp compared to the Raal headphones via the transformer interface (160 or 320 ohm with the TI-1a/b, 80 ohm with TI-1c).

Keep that in mind if you plan on using tube amps designed for specific speaker impedance.

 

[Currawong]

Normally, the LCD-R can be an amp destroyer if the the amp can't handle the load or doesn't have protection built in to shut it down. If you have an amp that can handle the load, then the LCD-R stands to be blown out by the power of the amp since it is so sensitive.

This is a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

The LCD-R is about as sensitive as a regular pair of headphones. The only weird thing about it is the 2 Ohm impedance, with which many amps can't swing current sufficiently well enough to get good low bass. Correspondingly, because the voltage required is so low, the amp needs low gain to work ideally. That's why it works best with a speaker amp set to a low gain level, which is what I often use.

However, it's worth checking with manufacturers first to see if their amps will be ok with a 2 Ohm load connected.

Happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.

Now I think of it, I wonder if the current-mode ENLEUM amps would work with them.

 

[cwoo]

This is a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

The LCD-R is about as sensitive as a regular pair of headphones. The only weird thing about it is the 2 Ohm impedance, with which many amps can't swing current sufficiently well enough to get good low bass. Correspondingly, because the voltage required is so low, the amp needs low gain to work ideally. That's why it works best with a speaker amp set to a low gain level, which is what I often use.

However, it's worth checking with manufacturers first to see if their amps will be ok with a 2 Ohm load connected.

Happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.

Now I think of it, I wonder if the current-mode ENLEUM amps would work with them.

So from my understanding, and the Jot-R is a good example, the Jot-R has plenty of on-deck power that really limits your ability to do much with the volume knob. I think the Jot-R could have been setup with even less gain to give more play in the volume knob.

With powerful amps that can handle 2ohm consistent loads, you will want to ensure that the gain is also within a low enough spec to not draw an insane amount of power with the volume pot turned to a low position. The amp will see the 2ohm load, which is basically going to let a lot of potential power to the headphone out. If your amp is able to handle a low impedance number like 2 ohms, but is setup for speakers for example, it could dump way too much power to the LCD-R and potentially blow its drivers with volumes that are too high. Just like when you see that a speaker amp is rated at 100Watts at 8Ohms, and like 200Watts at 4 Ohms. The lower the current number, the more potential on deck power that amp can send. At a 2ohm load, the amp can send way more watts of power to the end device.

Now for the opposite, if you have an amplifier that is unable to handle 2ohm consistent load rated impedance, the amp will see this as being close to a short and cause it to overheat or pop (more so with transistor based amps - not 100% sure, but I think OTL tubes will just stop giving any more power since they don't have it). A lot of amps have built in protection circuits that should shut the amp down before this occurs, but not all of them.

Current draw and Voltage are separate from sensitivity ratings. They both play a factor in how sensitive a headphone or speaker is, but you could have the same current draw and voltage draw from two different speakers, but due to speaker design (materials, box, sealed/ported, diaphragm type, driver size, crossovers, etc), both of those speakers could have a totally different sensitivity rating when measured even though their impedance and voltage requirements are the same.

I think I am right on this, but am always looking forward to being corrected.

 

[Dandrac]

So from my understanding, and the Jot-A is a good example, the Jot-R has plenty of on-deck power that really limits your ability to do much with the volume knob. I think the Jot-A could have been setup with even less gain to give more play in the volume knob.

With powerful amps that can handle 2ohm consistent loads, you will want to ensure that the gain is also within a low enough spec to not draw an insane amount of power with the volume pot turned to a low position. The amp will see the 2ohm load, which is basically going to let a lot of potential power to the headphone out. If your amp is able to handle a low impedance number like 2 ohms, but is setup for speakers for example, it could dump way too much power to the LCD-R and potentially blow its drivers with volumes that are too high. Just like when you see that a speaker amp is rated at 100Watts at 8Ohms, and like 200Watts at 4 Ohms. The lower the current number, the more potential on deck power that amp can send. At a 2ohm load, the amp can send way more watts of power to the end device.

Now for the opposite, if you have an amplifier that is unable to handle 2ohm consistent load rated impedance, the amp will see this as being close to a short and cause it to overheat or pop (more so with transistor based amps - not 100% sure, but I think OTL tubes will just stop giving any more power since they don't have it). A lot of amps have built in protection circuits that should shut the amp down before this occurs, but not all of them.

Current draw and Voltage are separate from sensitivity ratings. They both play a factor in how sensitive a headphone or speaker is, but you could have the same current draw and voltage draw from two different speakers, but due to speaker design (materials, box, sealed/ported, diaphragm type, driver size, crossovers, etc), both of those speakers could have a totally different sensitivity rating when measured even though their impedance and voltage requirements are the same.

I think I am right on this, but am always looking forward to being corrected.

OK. This is a scary graph. If I am reading this right 80-100db seems OK but If I accidentally listen to a song with a wide dynamic swing or my volume control is not super well controlled the amperage jumps to some terrifying trace burning numbers. I guess I am back to using a preamp or the Hugo2 because of the channel imbalance issue on the JOT-A. Hopefully at an upcoming CanJam there will be a RAAL booth that I can check out to see a resistor pack in action. Thank You for the graph and advice.

 

[Clemmaster]

This is a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

The LCD-R is about as sensitive as a regular pair of headphones. The only weird thing about it is the 2 Ohm impedance, with which many amps can't swing current sufficiently well enough to get good low bass. Correspondingly, because the voltage required is so low, the amp needs low gain to work ideally. That's why it works best with a speaker amp set to a low gain level, which is what I often use.

However, it's worth checking with manufacturers first to see if their amps will be ok with a 2 Ohm load connected.

Happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.

Now I think of it, I wonder if the current-mode ENLEUM amps would work with them.

I did try it with my HPA-21 at the time. It did work but didn’t have much gain, as expected from the 2 ohm impedance.

 

[Currawong]

OK. This is a scary graph. If I am reading this right 80-100db seems OK but If I accidentally listen to a song with a wide dynamic swing or my volume control is not super well controlled the amperage jumps to some terrifying trace burning numbers. I guess I am back to using a preamp or the Hugo2 because of the channel imbalance issue on the JOT-A. Hopefully at an upcoming CanJam there will be a RAAL booth that I can check out to see a resistor pack in action. Thank You for the graph and advice.

It's in milliamps, not amps. Here's the full set of graphs for comparison.

I tried the HPA-23RMH (the version for the Tungsten) and it works well, with enough gain (though I was using a Hugo 2 as the source).

 

[Clemmaster]

It's in milliamps, not amps. Here's the full set of graphs for comparison.

I tried the HPA-23RMH (the version for the Tungsten) and it works well, with enough gain (though I was using a Hugo 2 as the source).

Did it sound good?

I think the 23RM might have higher gain than the 21. It certainly hisses a bit with the Atrium Open (300 ohm) while the 21 is dead silent (both on battery).

 

[Currawong]

Did it sound good?

I think the 23RM might have higher gain than the 21. It certainly hisses a bit with the Atrium Open (300 ohm) while the 21 is dead silent (both on battery).

It did! I didn't try anything with very low bass, which tends to be the limitations of some amps, but I indeed had to use high gain. Didn't have any hiss though.

 

[Clemmaster]

It did! I didn't try anything with very low bass, which tends to be the limitations of some amps, but I indeed had to use high gain. Didn't have any hiss though.

With 2 ohm load, the “self gain” is very low so I’m not surprised. It’s really with (somewhat) efficient high impedance cans, like AO. I don’t hear any hiss with the CFA Moon Rover, for example.