[tcellguy]

Did you mean XM3/4 have punchier bass (or is MX3/4 another headphone)?

And, if you meant XM3/4 - so those have punchier bass but still less in overall quantity than Momentum 4? Is that one of those situations where it has deeper sub-bass, so the bass feels more present, yet still not as punchy as something with a more mid-bass hump?

So Momentum 4 has more bass and more treble than XM3/4? What does that mean, that the Momentum 4 is V-shaped in frequency response?

Yes, I meant Sony WH-1000XM3 and WH-1000XM4. These both have more sub-bass slam vs. the Momentum 4. Without EQ, the WH-1000XM3 and WH-1000XM4 have more sub-bass and and similar (to my ear) mid bass elevation. The Sony driver just has more sub bass slam no matter how I EQ either headphone.

I EQ down the mid bass in the WH-1000XM3 and WH-1000XM4 but retain the sub-bass (my preference). With the 3-band Momentum 4 EQ you can't really do much other than tune down the entire bass range, so the sub bass suffers in that case.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I think the that with EQ, bass quality is actually better with the Sony headphones. Despite the descriptions from others, the bass is somewhat "one note" sounding to me on the Momentum 4 unless I tune it way down. For genres like electronic or rock/metal the bass becomes really congested and bloomed and encroaches into the midrange unless I drop the bass range in the EQ. However, for classical it actually sounds very good. I think with multi-channel EQ the Sennsheisers would perform favorable or possibly better. I still prefer more sub bass impact though.

Where Momentum 4 wins is in midrange detail and separation and treble detail and extension.

The Momentum 4 sounds like it has more treble extension and elevation in the upper midrange, so these headphones have a lot more air. That treble and upper midrange elevation can be fatiguing on certain tracks, however. I found myself adjusting EQ a lot with these headphones, whereas the Sony headphones are more muted in the upper midrange and treble (except for what sounds like a few peaks).

 

[master grunthos]

Hi, I spend most of my time lurking and reading this forum. Today I have some input though.

short version: Sennheiser Momentum 4 win but don't look the part.

My fetish is wireless over ear headphones, tried wired a few times but the freedom of wireless is too much to resist. I really enjoy the Sennheiser RS180 that use Kleer (if you can find the SMS audio USB dongle that works with these from a PC then you have something great) and have had the Momentum 2 wireless since around their launch (they’re working fine except one ear phone needs a rubber band to hold it steady and the rocker button isn't really working). I recently bought the Hifiman Deva Pro with the R2R bluetooth adapter for at home listening. In addition, i received a set of Sony WH-H910N free with a new Sony phone, I didn't even know they were included. (I like Sony phones for the small sizes available, audio codecs, almost stock android and physical camera button).

This afternoon I spent a few hours testing in store:

Sennheiser Momentum 4
Sony wh 1000xm5
B&W PX7 S2

vs
Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 (which is obviously inferior but my reference for noise cancelling headphones).
I've heavily EQed these with Wavelet to radically improve the sound (IMHO, which in this case is what matters)

This was not an A-B test due to there being two stores but that's pretty hard to do anyway without careful volume balancing between devices.

I did not compare the Sony WH-H910N because i find them effectively unuseable due to them being uncomfortable. the noise cancelling is better than the older M2 though.

The shops let me take the headphones into the street to test as well as in store noise.

I'll start with Sony XM5 because it's easiest:

Best noise cancelling but sounded harsh but with bloated bass. With nothing playing the noise cancelling is really very good though. They felt comfortable. Look bland. Only LDAC and basic SBS/AAC. This is limiting because it does tie you to products supporting LDAC (note that the Deva Pro has almost all the codecs).

It was quickly a no from me - unless I was going to start doing a lot of air travel and ANC became the absolute priority.

Now the B&W PX7 S2:

This is the headphone I wanted to like most...
It looks and feels the part. If you're spending >£300 on headphones to wear in public then this does matter. The only headphones of the new ones on trial that had any visual appeal.
The sound seemed a bit nasal to me, bass was quite a lot less impactful. Detailed yes but needed EQ (FWIW I also EQ the Deva Pro a lot to calm down the treble but being open backed they're in a different game to these ANC headphones).
Connectivity seemed flawless
ANC was better than the Momentum 2 but not a huge amount. This was a bit of a surprise considering reviews.
I spent a long time on these because I liked them in every respect except how they sounded out of the box (I say this like I've spend lots of time testing headphones when actually I previously ordered the M2 and the Deva Pro without listening).
I also liked the physical buttons rather than touch – It’s likely that physical buttons are actually more expensive to implement, build and also less robust so is probably going to die out.

EDIT: The store did tell me that they were box fresh and needed 40 hours burn in. I think this is probably BS though. If equipment needed to have burn in to sound good the manufacturer would make sure that was done for demo examples or in many cases sold new sets. Why risk underperforming?

However, I couldn’t justify the cost of an upgrade from the M2 based on the test I did.

Finally, the Sennheiser Momentum 4:

Starting with the bad: Physically disappointing. Not bad quality but even more bland than the Sony. It looks like this is where the cost saving is. The headband is nice but the ear cups look like they forgot to design them. That said, they do fit close to the head whereas the old M2/M3 head band was bulkier because it attached to the widest section of the earcup. Therefore overall they don’t look bad while worn, they just look like a bit cheaper than they are. The dual fixing of the yolk is probably stronger, it could just look posher.

Touch seems to work, as does connectivity. Really easy to get it all going.

ANC way better that M2 and significantly better than the B&W px7 s2 but not as impressive as Sony (marginally).

Easy to wear.

Aptx Adaptive is enough in this application (Android developer settings seem to think that they can do HD but the Sennheiser app doesn’t).

The sound of these was the only set to actually impress me the first time I played anything. I wanted to prefer the B&W even though they are more money but the M4 is quite a step up from what I'm used to in the M2.

I bought the M4...

So, I’ve done some more listening and they are very good. I fiddled with EQ and some graphs from Crinacle but found that the stock sound is pretty good. Harman curve tuned EQ reduces bass a bit but not much, they seem to be close to Harman tuned with a slight bass boost. The ANC can’t be turned off completely (only pass through), which suggests they rely on DSP to get the sound good but that’s fine if it works, which it does.

No LDAC but to my ears Aptx adaptive is as good in real world application. In fact, LDAC is in my experience less stable and outside of home listening isn’t usable in forced best quality mode. The truth is that really the ANC dominates the effect of the codecs as does the original recording quality (compare BBC Sounds to Deezer Hifi for example, even via the basic Aptx codec Deezer Premium is better by far than the BBC sounds app ever is). Aptx Adaptive is designed for this application.

So far no issues with my set of M4. Not really decided if I like the auto on/off and wear detection yet. Not sure I can really get over the look of them either. However, when I wear them I can see them!

Thanks for reading, if you got this far!

 

[dragion]

Hi, I spend most of my time lurking and reading this forum. Today I have some input though.

short version: Sennheiser Momentum 4 win but don't look the part.

My fetish is wireless over ear headphones, tried wired a few times but the freedom of wireless is too much to resist. I really enjoy the Sennheiser RS180 that use Kleer (if you can find the SMS audio USB dongle that works with these from a PC then you have something great) and have had the Momentum 2 wireless since around their launch (they’re working fine except one ear phone needs a rubber band to hold it steady and the rocker button isn't really working). I recently bought the Hifiman Deva Pro with the R2R bluetooth adapter for at home listening. In addition, i received a set of Sony WH-H910N free with a new Sony phone, I didn't even know they were included. (I like Sony phones for the small sizes available, audio codecs, almost stock android and physical camera button).

This afternoon I spent a few hours testing in store:

Sennheiser Momentum 4
Sony wh 1000xm5
B&W PX7 S2

vs
Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 (which is obviously inferior but my reference for noise cancelling headphones).
I've heavily EQed these with Wavelet to radically improve the sound (IMHO, which in this case is what matters)

This was not an A-B test due to there being two stores but that's pretty hard to do anyway without careful volume balancing between devices.

I did not compare the Sony WH-H910N because i find them effectively unuseable due to them being uncomfortable. the noise cancelling is better than the older M2 though.

The shops let me take the headphones into the street to test as well as in store noise.

I'll start with Sony XM5 because it's easiest:

Best noise cancelling but sounded harsh but with bloated bass. With nothing playing the noise cancelling is really very good though. They felt comfortable. Look bland. Only LDAC and basic SBS/AAC. This is limiting because it does tie you to products supporting LDAC (note that the Deva Pro has almost all the codecs).

It was quickly a no from me - unless I was going to start doing a lot of air travel and ANC became the absolute priority.

Now the B&W PX7 S2:

This is the headphone I wanted to like most...
It looks and feels the part. If you're spending >£300 on headphones to wear in public then this does matter. The only headphones of the new ones on trial that had any visual appeal.
The sound seemed a bit nasal to me, bass was quite a lot less impactful. Detailed yes but needed EQ (FWIW I also EQ the Deva Pro a lot to calm down the treble but being open backed they're in a different game to these ANC headphones).
Connectivity seemed flawless
ANC was better than the Momentum 2 but not a huge amount. This was a bit of a surprise considering reviews.
I spent a long time on these because I liked them in every respect except how they sounded out of the box (I say this like I've spend lots of time testing headphones when actually I previously ordered the M2 and the Deva Pro without listening).
I also liked the physical buttons rather than touch – It’s likely that physical buttons are actually more expensive to implement, build and also less robust so is probably going to die out.

EDIT: The store did tell me that they were box fresh and needed 40 hours burn in. I think this is probably BS though. If equipment needed to have burn in to sound good the manufacturer would make sure that was done for demo examples or in many cases sold new sets. Why risk underperforming?

However, I couldn’t justify the cost of an upgrade from the M2 based on the test I did.

Finally, the Sennheiser Momentum 4:

Starting with the bad: Physically disappointing. Not bad quality but even more bland than the Sony. It looks like this is where the cost saving is. The headband is nice but the ear cups look like they forgot to design them. That said, they do fit close to the head whereas the old M2/M3 head band was bulkier because it attached to the widest section of the earcup. Therefore overall they don’t look bad while worn, they just look like a bit cheaper than they are. The dual fixing of the yolk is probably stronger, it could just look posher.

Touch seems to work, as does connectivity. Really easy to get it all going.

ANC way better that M2 and significantly better than the B&W px7 s2 but not as impressive as Sony (marginally).

Easy to wear.

Aptx Adaptive is enough in this application (Android developer settings seem to think that they can do HD but the Sennheiser app doesn’t).

The sound of these was the only set to actually impress me the first time I played anything. I wanted to prefer the B&W even though they are more money but the M4 is quite a step up from what I'm used to in the M2.

I bought the M4...

So, I’ve done some more listening and they are very good. I fiddled with EQ and some graphs from Crinacle but found that the stock sound is pretty good. Harman curve tuned EQ reduces bass a bit but not much, they seem to be close to Harman tuned with a slight bass boost. The ANC can’t be turned off completely (only pass through), which suggests they rely on DSP to get the sound good but that’s fine if it works, which it does.

No LDAC but to my ears Aptx adaptive is as good in real world application. In fact, LDAC is in my experience less stable and outside of home listening isn’t usable in forced best quality mode. The truth is that really the ANC dominates the effect of the codecs as does the original recording quality (compare BBC Sounds to Deezer Hifi for example, even via the basic Aptx codec Deezer Premium is better by far than the BBC sounds app ever is). Aptx Adaptive is designed for this application.

So far no issues with my set of M4. Not really decided if I like the auto on/off and wear detection yet. Not sure I can really get over the look of them either. However, when I wear them I can see them!

Thanks for reading, if you got this far!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with the M4's.
I was on the fence with the XM5 and the M4, but already have the Sony XM4 (both over the ear and the true wireless headphones) and decided to go with the Sennheiser's.

I'm curious on what your settings are for the M4 with the Wavelet EQ app?
I would like to know if it is possible for you to share them with us.
Also would love to see what the AutoEQ is for the M4 with the Wavelet app.

Thanks!

 

[ericpalonen]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with the M4's.
I was on the fence with the XM5 and the M4, but already have the Sony XM4 (both over the ear and the true wireless headphones) and decided to go with the Sennheiser's.

I'm curious on what your settings are for the M4 with the Winglet EQ app?
I would like to know if it is possible for you to share them with us.
Also would love to see what the AutoEQ is for the M4 with the Winglet app.

Thanks!

Welcome to the #M4WClub @dragion & @master grunthos !

Hi, I spend most of my time lurking and reading this forum. Today I have some input though.
...

Finally, the Sennheiser Momentum 4:

Starting with the bad: Physically disappointing. Not bad quality but even more bland than the Sony. It looks like this is where the cost saving is. The headband is nice but the ear cups look like they forgot to design them. That said, they do fit close to the head whereas the old M2/M3 head band was bulkier because it attached to the widest section of the earcup. Therefore overall they don’t look bad while worn, they just look like a bit cheaper than they are. The dual fixing of the yolk is probably stronger, it could just look posher.

Touch seems to work, as does connectivity. Really easy to get it all going.

ANC way better that M2 and significantly better than the B&W px7 s2 but not as impressive as Sony (marginally).

Easy to wear.

Aptx Adaptive is enough in this application (Android developer settings seem to think that they can do HD but the Sennheiser app doesn’t).

The sound of these was the only set to actually impress me the first time I played anything. I wanted to prefer the B&W even though they are more money but the M4 is quite a step up from what I'm used to in the M2.

I bought the M4...

So, I’ve done some more listening and they are very good. I fiddled with EQ and some graphs from Crinacle but found that the stock sound is pretty good. Harman curve tuned EQ reduces bass a bit but not much, they seem to be close to Harman tuned with a slight bass boost. The ANC can’t be turned off completely (only pass through), which suggests they rely on DSP to get the sound good but that’s fine if it works, which it does.

No LDAC but to my ears Aptx adaptive is as good in real world application. In fact, LDAC is in my experience less stable and outside of home listening isn’t usable in forced best quality mode. The truth is that really the ANC dominates the effect of the codecs as does the original recording quality (compare BBC Sounds to Deezer Hifi for example, even via the basic Aptx codec Deezer Premium is better by far than the BBC sounds app ever is). Aptx Adaptive is designed for this application.

So far no issues with my set of M4. Not really decided if I like the auto on/off and wear detection yet. Not sure I can really get over the look of them either. However, when I wear them I can see them!

Thanks for reading, if you got this far!

Glad you found a setting you like! I use the Smart Control app with bass down 1 tick but enjoy the sweetness of the mid and treble range quite a bit. As for ANC, being "off" here is the next-closest thing.

Yes, the design is much more minimalist, but they travel much more compact than the prior version (see the 2nd pic here) and couple to the head a lot better thanks to the new pivot design. I think they'll grow on you but totally respect if you like a bolder design more, too. Don't forget to share some of your favorite tracks with us!

 

[Fiorin]

I got my replacement pair of M4s from Amazon. The constant creaking was driving me nuts! I also noticed an issue with the defective pair where when I connected to my phone, and played anything with bass, it would crackle hard. Turning bluetooth off and on would fix the problem until I had to connect them to bluetooth again.

After trying the XM5s and not liking them on both a sound (bloated bass, harsh as grunthos said) and comfort (The headband cushion is tiny and hurts my head), I was upset my M4s had issues because I've never had a bad Sennheiser pair. I'm glad to report that this replacement pair has no creaking on either side when on my head.

The drivers sound as they should. The touch controls also seem to work better than on my defective pair; the pinch motions would not register sometimes on them.

The only small annoyance I had was updating the firmware with the Android app. I had to try it a few times because the app would either complain about my phone battery, not display the update, or try to boot me back into the tutorial when you first open the app for some reason. But once I took my time with it, the process went smoothly.

Let me know if you want a video or some sort of assessment on the defective pair before I send it back later this week.

 

[master grunthos]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience with the M4's.
I was on the fence with the XM5 and the M4, but already have the Sony XM4 (both over the ear and the true wireless headphones) and decided to go with the Sennheiser's.

I'm curious on what your settings are for the M4 with the Wavelet EQ app?
I would like to know if it is possible for you to share them with us.
Also would love to see what the AutoEQ is for the M4 with the Wavelet app.

Thanks!

My current EQ is flat in the Sennheiser app and Wavelet doing nothing as I'm getting on fine with the out of the box sound.

To get an Auto EQ you can use this page: https://crinacle.com/graphs/headpho...F_Neutral_Target,Momentum_4_Wireless_(Active)

select teh Equaliser button on the uper left and then you can auto EQ for "IEF neutral" or "Harman AE OE 2018" in the free version. There's buttons for export (for PEACE) or export for Wavelet. I prefer a Harman like curve.

I've attached a screen shot of the outcome. The equalizer settings can be adjusted and a file exported that uploads into Wavelet.

I have been playing with this EQ in Wavelet and find that I prefer it in AutoEQ with teh EQ strength as low as possible at only 25%. I've also played with removing the low frequency filters to keep the bass response as the stock sound. When I get time I'll do some more detailed playing with PEACE on my PC which enables instant changes to be made. There's some Python code that will convert PEACE equalizations to Wavelet.

 

[dragion]

My current EQ is flat in the Sennheiser app and Wavelet doing nothing as I'm getting on fine with the out of the box sound.

To get an Auto EQ you can use this page: https://crinacle.com/graphs/headpho...F_Neutral_Target,Momentum_4_Wireless_(Active)

select teh Equaliser button on the uper left and then you can auto EQ for "IEF neutral" or "Harman AE OE 2018" in the free version. There's buttons for export (for PEACE) or export for Wavelet. I prefer a Harman like curve.

I've attached a screen shot of the outcome. The equalizer settings can be adjusted and a file exported that uploads into Wavelet.

I have been playing with this EQ in Wavelet and find that I prefer it in AutoEQ with teh EQ strength as low as possible at only 25%. I've also played with removing the low frequency filters to keep the bass response as the stock sound. When I get time I'll do some more detailed playing with PEACE on my PC which enables instant changes to be made. There's some Python code that will convert PEACE equalizations to Wavelet.

Thank you!
I'm a follower and subscriber to crinacle's YouTube channel.

 

[timmo1]

Does anyone know what the “Comfort Call” setting does in the app? I haven’t been able to find any documentation on it (I’m sure I’m missing it but I give up). Just curious… Also - I tend to like the Sidetone to be off when using it for phone calls (still learning on what settings work best).

 

[dragion]

My current EQ is flat in the Sennheiser app and Wavelet doing nothing as I'm getting on fine with the out of the box sound.

To get an Auto EQ you can use this page: https://crinacle.com/graphs/headpho...F_Neutral_Target,Momentum_4_Wireless_(Active)

select teh Equaliser button on the uper left and then you can auto EQ for "IEF neutral" or "Harman AE OE 2018" in the free version. There's buttons for export (for PEACE) or export for Wavelet. I prefer a Harman like curve.

I've attached a screen shot of the outcome. The equalizer settings can be adjusted and a file exported that uploads into Wavelet.

I have been playing with this EQ in Wavelet and find that I prefer it in AutoEQ with teh EQ strength as low as possible at only 25%. I've also played with removing the low frequency filters to keep the bass response as the stock sound. When I get time I'll do some more detailed playing with PEACE on my PC which enables instant changes to be made. There's some Python code that will convert PEACE equalizations to Wavelet.

If possible, could you upload your settings in Wavelet... I mistakingly uploaded a non Harmon curve setting I think.

Thank you.

 

[ericpalonen]

Does anyone know what the “Comfort Call” setting does in the app? I haven’t been able to find any documentation on it (I’m sure I’m missing it but I give up). Just curious… Also - I tend to like the Sidetone to be off when using it for phone calls (still learning on what settings work best).

Comfort Call adds a little bit of processing to the other party's voice while on a call. The goal is to reduce fatigue for longer calls.

 

[subguy812]

I got my replacement pair of M4s from Amazon. The constant creaking was driving me nuts! I also noticed an issue with the defective pair where when I connected to my phone, and played anything with bass, it would crackle hard. Turning bluetooth off and on would fix the problem until I had to connect them to bluetooth again.

After trying the XM5s and not liking them on both a sound (bloated bass, harsh as grunthos said) and comfort (The headband cushion is tiny and hurts my head), I was upset my M4s had issues because I've never had a bad Sennheiser pair. I'm glad to report that this replacement pair has no creaking on either side when on my head.

The drivers sound as they should. The touch controls also seem to work better than on my defective pair; the pinch motions would not register sometimes on them.

The only small annoyance I had was updating the firmware with the Android app. I had to try it a few times because the app would either complain about my phone battery, not display the update, or try to boot me back into the tutorial when you first open the app for some reason. But once I took my time with it, the process went smoothly.

Let me know if you want a video or some sort of assessment on the defective pair before I send it back later this week.

Glad you found one that worked. When I posted my impressions, it was a shame that this release was tainted by plasticky, creaking earcups.

 

[Not so fat head]

Beautiful product Sennheiser!!!
Thank you..
However, I picked up a second M3 (white) when the price fell to $250 at Best Buy.... so will wait a while.
Do these transfer the EQ settings to the headphones and store them, like the M3's??

 

[ericpalonen]

Beautiful product Sennheiser!!!
Thank you..
However, I picked up a second M3 (white) when the price fell to $250 at Best Buy.... so will wait a while.
Do these transfer the EQ settings to the headphones and store them, like the M3's??

Thanks for the purchase regardless...M3W is still terrific and they will give you many years of enjoyment.

Settings are obviously stored, but not transferred as of this writing. The hardware capabilities (DSP, for example) and acoustic variables of each are not always 1:1, and the tuning will likely evolve from generation to generation so it remains to be seen if it would be helpful. Cheers!

 

[timmo1]

Comfort Call adds a little bit of processing to the other party's voice while on a call. The goal is to reduce fatigue for longer calls.

Thanks - I tried it on a phone call flipping it on and off and couldn’t notice a difference personally

 

[hldn]

Out of curiosity. Does the Codec option in Configuration show anything for anyone anytime? Its always showing No Audio Stream for me. Not that it bothers me as the app is far from perfect. I run the app in a Pixel 6 phone, it did not show anything in Android 12 and it does not show anything in Android 13 either.

PS I'd swear the wind reduction has become way worse with the latest updates...