[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ On the other hand, I don't understand people who can seriously enjoy (!) classical music (and Jazz, to some degree) through crappy systems and kitchen radios.

I'm one of those people you don't understand. I have upward of 10,000 classical CDs. About 20% are monophonic recordings, many even before the era of the 78 record. My earliest recording is from 1902. A great many of these discs are absolutely horrid sounding. My favorite performance of Rachmaninoff's 3rd piano concerto was recorded off the air in the 1940s, and at one point you can hear crosstalk from a neighboring radio station. Nobody will ever hear Josef Hofmann or Enrico Caruso on a good modern recording; nonetheless, their artistry shines well through the diminished recordings they left behind. It's all about hearing through the recording, and it's something that you have to learn how to do. A high-quality audio system helps bring out the most in every recording, regardless of vintage. I auditioned speakers up to $20,000, looking for the most transparent and revealing sound I could find. But in the end, even a kitchen radio will do. The connoisseur is able to hear the artists through the obstacles of the recording and playback systems. The human brain is the world's most powerful DSP.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ephemere I'm one of those people you don't understand. ...

I'm not saying you're wrong. Unless you're saying it's the only valid approach of a «connoisseur».

 

[bigshot]

I'm another one. I have close to 10,000 classical 78s. I've found that no electrical transcription can match the sound of a good acoustically recorded record played back on a well maintained contemporary Victrola. The sound engineers in Camden had the luxury of being able to design the phonographs to suit the recording process, and the recording process to suit the phonographs. You would be amazed at how good your 1902 recording sounds on the right acoustic phonograph. When I play M'appiri by Caruso on my Victrola X, you can hear him all the way down the block. The sound is truly astonishing, and it has aspects to it that modern technology just can't match.

Great sound reproduction is wonderful. I would love to hear Caruso recorded in hifi. But that's never going to happen. But that doesn't mean that I can't be perfectly content hearing him the way his audience heard him back in the day. The music is what matters.

Equipment doesn't require constant upgrading, but music does.

See ya
Steve

 

[McRat]

JaZZ, I knew that the possible shortcut would require some serious funding, which I really don't have anywhere in the near future. I think you hit the nail on the "music lover" stuff and lowering my demands.

Regarding ephemere's comment: I have to admit that I'm just starting to build my record collection and I'm quite new to this hobby. But being somewhat of a musician myself and having had a fair amount of classical music training I do feel that I have this ability to listen through the recording, and when listening through lesser gear I costruct the missing parts in my head. Somehow something in my current hifi-setup is blocking my view of "the essential" thing in music, that my inferior gear is able to portray (eg. the kitchen radio). Maybe it's the flawed upstream gear through too revealing transducers JaZZ is speaking of. Maybe it's something else, like my expectations building up too high with better equipmnet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ephemere The human brain is the world's most powerful DSP.

Well said! I do wonder why it chuckles with my living room setup though...

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot When I play M'appiri by Caruso on my Victrola X, you can hear him all the way down the block. The sound is truly astonishing, and it has aspects to it that modern technology just can't match.

I can believe that. Although my library is all CD transfers, I'm amazed at the luminance of some of the best recordings from the first three decades of the 1900s. Some of the technology back then was surprisingly good.

Your post made me think... Of all the speakers I auditioned when I was building my main system, the ones that I thought performed best on these older recordings were the horn-based Avantgarde Duos. I didn't get them because they were too big, but there was something special about that sound.

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I'm not saying you're wrong. Unless you're saying it's the only valid approach of a «connoisseur».

Oh yes, I know you weren't saying that. And I certainly wasn't saying anything was the only valid approach to anything.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ephemere Your post made me think... Of all the speakers I auditioned when I was building my main system, the ones that I thought performed best on these older recordings were the horn-based Avantgarde Duos. I didn't get them because they were too big, but there was something special about that sound.

I have a friend who is designing a horn loaded, modular speaker system for concert venues. The sound is nothing short of spectacular. Those guys at Bell Labs knew their stuff!

See ya
Steve

 

[McRat]

I have been thinking of building my next speakers with a horn loaded single driver design. Luckily the net is full of such projects, so it should be easy to just pick one, just like headphones

 

[boodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat I have been thinking of building my next speakers with a horn loaded single driver design. Luckily the net is full of such projects, so it should be easy ..

H A HA HAH HAHAH HA

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat I have been thinking of building my next speakers with a horn loaded single driver design.

Come to think about it: This is indeed some sort of side track you were talking about: not «hi-fi», but not high fidelity as well. I don't mean to dismiss horn designs generally, I just think that a single-driver horn concept can't be accurate enough in a narrower sense for classical music and acoustic instruments generally. But of course it can be fun (...for a certain period of time

).

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I just think that a single-driver horn concept can't be accurate enough in a narrower sense for classical music and acoustic instruments generally. But of course it can be fun (...for a certain period of time ).

In my office at work I have a reflex-loaded (not horn-loaded) single-driver system made by Omega based on a 4.5" Fostex driver, and I am probably going to sell them. They are really fast and fun with electronic music, but not what I want for classical.

 

[JaZZ]

Something like this?

Those are my computer speakers.

 

[ephemere]

Wow, those are nice looking! Did you make those?

 

[bigshot]

You should hear classical music on my friend's prototype system! The drivers he uses hold the same response at any volume level. I've never heard anything like that before. I think he said there are three 18 inch drivers on each side. He gave me a demonstration and it's jaw droppingly good. The interesting thing about horn loaded bass drivers is that there is no spill off to the sides. The bass sounds the same in the front row as it does in the back row, even outdoors.

He's working now on coming up with a way to accurately and quickly EQ them to flat within 1 db across the spectrum in just about any room. He wants to build a test tone generator and spectrum analyzer that works frequency by frequency, with proper balance of the second and third harmonics along with the fundamental. Most pink noise analyzers are thrown off by masking, and your ears can be fooled by inbalances in harmonics. Because of this, the way frequencies at the edges of the spectrum are often measured doesn't accurately reflect the way actually they actually sound.

I'm learning a lot listening to him think out all of his problems.

See ya
Steve

 

[aerius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat After a good night sleep and reading through these posts again (especially JefferyK) has had me thinking that maybe the problem isn't so much in gear. Maybe it's more about the way I am listening to music. It's the so called "critical listening" that I'm having trouble with. The more casual the situation, the more I seem to enjoy music. I've never heard Miles Davis "Kind of blue" the way I heard it two nights ago, when we had some friends over. I just put Miles on the platter and we sat around the table eating something with some fine wine. Although the music was playing quite loud for backround music, it never bothered anyone, not even the guy sitting closest to the speaker. Even my wife said she liked Miles' music, making me pick up my jawbone from the floor.

Well, it looks like you're a prime candidate for alcohol therapy. Have a beer, a glass of wine, or some spirits before and during listening and just sit back and enjoy. If you still find yourself trying to analyze the music, then have another drink until you don't. If you find yourself dancing naked around the room after a few drinks & albums, that's great! Mission accomplished, you're grooving to the music.