[boodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat I thank you all for the valuable input. Very many of you have reinforced my thoughts especially on MS-2i, so I'll probably go with those. If those don't help, I'll just ditch the hifi and stick with my portable wonders (and make my wife happy in the process...)

yay man very good choice
count also that even if I jumped on grados hp2 when I wanted neutrality/naturality - they turned to be overall more involving and less fatiguing that my hd650 , period ..****
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It's what I'm not hearing that's buggin' me. I'm not asking for the gear to add anything to the music, I just want it to deliver the feeling and the meaning of the song, the intentions and thoughts of the the performer and composer.

**** supposely ms2i share a bit of that polite and very nice balanced voice ( bass,mids,highs - unharshness ) towards all music genres that helps a lot cans to be good allrounder and convey nicely the different emotions that may raise from the different genres , I see as some ears may need it to be completely satisfied for a nice long period ..
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I have been listening to crappier equipment lately and find I actually enjoy the music more from cheap boomboxes and car stereo, not even mentioning a vintage receiver and 4" full range shelf-/wall mount-speakers.

yes , you know .. there's a part in everyone of us which is irrational?deviated?lively?uber-rea?l- or simply the emotional part .. she likes bit more of sparkle&distortions&damage on top of life ... this top may vary from case to case ( persons , situations , periods of life ) from a very low windy breeze on ears to a nice degree of continued turbolence in da brain ..

..think of degrees that are there passing from a Mozart flute concerto to a Megadeth song..

 

[bigshot]

If I hear Louis Armstrong sing "Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans" on a crummy stereo, or a good one... the emotion still packs a wallop. That's in Louis' music, not in the stereo.

A stereo can make something sound more realistic or aurally colorful, and a muffled lifeless presentation certainly can drain the music of energy, but once you reach a certain point in sound quality, (and it isn't all that high of a hurdle) the music passes through and does its job.

I still think that some completely new music would liven things up for the OP. I think he's thinking too much about the equipment. The gear is just the means to the end... music.

See ya
Steve

 

[CRESCENDOPOWER]

McRat,

I think you need a great big fat tube amplifier.

 

[boodi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot If I hear Louis Armstrong sing "Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans" on a crummy stereo, or a good one... the emotion still packs a wallop. That's in Louis' music, not in the stereo.

..too easy example bigshot .. Louis Armstrong gravelly distorted - sandpaper husky voice melts too well with other kinds of distortions ..

/ jk, with the benefit of a doubt

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot If I hear Louis Armstrong sing "Do You Know What It Means To Miss New Orleans" on a crummy stereo, or a good one... the emotion still packs a wallop. That's in Louis' music, not in the stereo. A stereo can make something sound more realistic or aurally colorful, and a muffled lifeless presentation certainly can drain the music of energy, but once you reach a certain point in sound quality, (and it isn't all that high of a hurdle) the music passes through and does its job. I still think that some completely new music would liven things up for the OP. I think he's thinking too much about the equipment. The gear is just the means to the end... music. See ya Steve

I agree 100%.

Jeffery

 

[McRat]

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Originally Posted by Blitzula I like the Naim gear, it's got PRAT and it's fun. It's also far superior technically to other equipment I've used. However, I still enjoy the car stereo easily the best. I didn't audition a lot of CDP/speakers, so I wouldn't necessarily assume that you can't find what you're looking for in a speaker set. But maybe what you're looking for isn't as hi-fi and doesn't require as much of a budget as you've been looking at.

Nice to know I still have hope on that matter. I fact I have been thinking about getting some Tivoli Audio combo or similar. Only problem is that we have lots of open space in the apartment to fill with the sound of such small speakers. Maybe there could still be a sweetspot somewhere lower on the price range...

Sweetspot as in listening seat for a pair of speakers is another thing I might be getting rid of. Although stereo image is an interesting thing, most of the time I just want to listen to music while wandering around our home. Thus the stereo image is ruined anyway, so maybe a mono system would suit me better? This is getting heavy...

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Yes, I think you and I are in the same exact boat. I finally reached the point where I had to acknowledge that smoother high end sound, while technically superior, was really dramatically affecting my enjoyment/the emotionality/fun of the music. And I've also been frustrated with that....I feel like I've lost my music. I've been too busy with personal matters to try and fix it recently, but I'll share my thoughts if I do.

It's really comforting to hear of some1 in the same situation. Your words could be from my mouth! Makes me feel less of a nutcase on a hifi forum

Although this really makes me wonder should I buy those MS-2 after all. Sounds like there will be no more enjoyment from those than any other mid-to-high end equipment that I have tried. Maybe I should just save some money by getting the SR-80 used from these forums and be done with it!

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Originally Posted by CRESCENDOPOWER I think you need a great big fat tube amplifier.

As a matter of fact, I have been thinking about that a lot lately. And some nice and juicy, horn loaded full range speakers to go with that. Not exactly a budget solution, but a viable option!

I hear a lot of musicians enjoy tube gear with pretty affordable speakers. Being something of a musician myself, I do wonder if this would be the way to go. Any recommendations for suitable headphones while your at it?

 

[McRat]

bigshot and JefferyK:
I do agree I have been thinking way too much about the gear lately. But new or old music, the problem really doesn't go away. In the last four years there has been a lot of new music, believe me. But If I hear a new song from the cheap radio at work I most probably enjoy it, remember some of the words and have a good idea of the concept. And it will start repeating in my head for me to whistle along in the office annoying my co-workers.

Hearing a new song on my home rig gives me this "Wow, those instruments sound fantastic, each one playing in it's true place in the soundstage. What a marvellous hi-hat I'm hearing!" etc. So, what was the latter song about? I have absolutely no idea! The hifi just ate the song...

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I still think that some completely new music would liven things up for the OP. I think he's thinking too much about the equipment. See ya Steve

I don't know how you reach that conclusion. Again, we all have music we like that has stood the test of time and that we enjoy each time we hear it (given a normal mood). If he likes it on his old equipment but not his new, then it's an equipment versus music issue. It doesn't seem like you're listening to what he's saying.

 

[digihead]

Interesting thread. I have found myself in a similar situation recently in terms of not only feeling like at times I'm missing the emotion of the music, but also wanting to just get the sound of my car stereo into my home.

After some high end headphones and sources, so far I am the happiest with the RS-1s. A nice open sound that is really lively and fun. I used to think I was searching for nothing but clarity, transparency, and detail. Now I realize that all those things are great, but if the musical presentation doesn't grab you then it isn't worth it. When I really want to enjoy my music, I end up listening to the RS-1. It's far from perfect, but perfect sound doesn't always mean an enjoyable sound either.

Of course I still want to try the Stax, and perhaps a PS-1. After that, I'm done. If I can't find any more musical enjoyment out of those headphones then I'm selling all the other headphone gear I have and just keeping the RS-1s.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat Sweetspot as in listening seat for a pair of speakers is another thing I might be getting rid of. Although stereo image is an interesting thing, most of the time I just want to listen to music while wandering around our home. Thus the stereo image is ruined anyway, so maybe a mono system would suit me better? This is getting heavy... It's really comforting to hear of some1 in the same situation. Your words could be from my mouth! Makes me feel less of a nutcase on a hifi forum Although this really makes me wonder should I buy those MS-2 after all. Sounds like there will be no more enjoyment from those than any other mid-to-high end equipment that I have tried. Maybe I should just save some money by getting the SR-80 used from these forums and be done with it!

I should give you my background for my issues with hi-fi sound. My experience has been with headphones, the SR80, SR225, SR325, MS-2, RS-1, PS-1, Futuresonics IEM3, and HD-650. So when I mention that I don't get the same visceral level reaction, I mean with those headphones.

It's also true for the Naim setup to a lesser extent, but I'm not an experienced speaker guy. It sounds like you've had similar issues with some hi-fi speakers though.

I thought the MS-2s were ultimately not exciting enough. They are a more neutral Grado, which for me meant "not as fun" Grado.

I think the first step is to find a source you like, although I always wonder how you're supposed to do that when it can sound so different with different headphone/speaker combos.

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead Interesting thread. I have found myself in a similar situation recently in terms of not only feeling like at times I'm missing the emotion of the music, but also wanting to just get the sound of my car stereo into my home.

I have two speakers up front and back, a couple on the dash, and two tweeters, one at each window. Could it just be that the various speakers and their positioning are what make the car stereo fun? That it's just a matter of acoustic positioning more than anything else?

 

[JefferyK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat bigshot and JefferyK: I do agree I have been thinking way too much about the gear lately. But new or old music, the problem really doesn't go away. In the last four years there has been a lot of new music, believe me. But If I hear a new song from the cheap radio at work I most probably enjoy it, remember some of the words and have a good idea of the concept. And it will start repeating in my head for me to whistle along in the office annoying my co-workers. Hearing a new song on my home rig gives me this "Wow, those instruments sound fantastic, each one playing in it's true place in the soundstage. What a marvellous hi-hat I'm hearing!" etc. So, what was the latter song about? I have absolutely no idea! The hifi just ate the song...

Boy. I'm sorry. I know what that's like.

I used to write music reviews. After doing that for a few years, I found myself unable to enjoy music. As soon as I'd start listening, I'd start crafting sentences in my head, describing the sound, interpreting the lyrics, making associations. It started to drive me nuts. So I quit writing reviews.

Here's my advice: Quit buying. No more upgrades, no new equipment. If you have extra gear, sell it or give it away or put it in storage or something.

Keep one rig and just use what you have. Do that for a month and see what happens. I think you'll be able to hear to music again and experience the feeling and emotion you're missing.

I learned a lot when I was on my upgrade path, the most important thing being: If you don't step off, you will be on it forever. Imagine a lifetime of listening to "gear." Good grief, shoot me now!

Jeffery

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat Hearing a new song on my home rig gives me this "Wow, those instruments sound fantastic, each one playing in it's true place in the soundstage. What a marvellous hi-hat I'm hearing!" etc. So, what was the latter song about? I have absolutely no idea! The hifi just ate the song...

That's very wierd and kind of sad... I don't think more equipment will solve the problem... perhaps change something in your listening room... put a neat new picture on the wall, or get a bunch of flowers and stink the joint up with them. Emotions need recharging sometimes.

See ya
Steve

 

[Blitzula]

McRat said exactly what I feel like. I don't think it's weird, but it is sad. You lose what you love, the fun and emotion of the music.

I think downgrading to the place where the emotion was still felt is a good move to consider.

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by McRat The K501 are great phones but I miss the punch and the bottom end. ... I thought I would find "the magic" from the K501 midrange, but the lack of punch isn't fun at all.

I noticed that a lot of people recommended Grado to you. I just recently compared the Grado SR-225 with my K501. I know exactly what you mean when you say the K501 lacks punch at the bottom end. The SR-225 certainly has this punch, and it was very impressive indeed. However, the SR-225 sounds nothing like the K501 in any part of the range, on any type of music. I could try to explain the differences if you want, but for now let's just say that I was pretty surprised with a few things after all that I had read about the Grado sound. The point is that if you are looking for headphones that have the midrange of the K501 but with more punch in the bass, that is certainly not the Grado SR-225. I don't know about other Grado cans or about the Alessandro cans. But if you like the K501 midrange, I would strongly caution you to try Grado before you buy Grado.