I'm lobbying to stop IC's
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:14 AM Post #31 of 77

Gorthon

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Quote:

Originally Posted by solbergg
Quite frankly, there are some common headphones that people have a good idea of their price due to their popularity. But, there are a heck of a lot of other headphones out there, also not to mention amps, sources, cables, etc. Not every person is an audio bluebook, and they shouldn't be expected to be. And, the proverbial law of value is that an item is worth "what the buyer will pay for it". I can see myself at some point not being sure if I wanted to sell an item due to the lack of information on it's worth. A quick IC (and you should at least appreciate the people that are being upfront that it's an IC, many might just not put a price and see what happens) would be the perfect tool to find out what I can expect for it.


Like most things, I also believe there are exceptions. The ones that come to mind are PS-1' and HF-1's. The market is in a crazy cycle with the HF-1's. I have a pretty good idea of what market price currently is. Only becuase I was aggressivly chasing them and asking questions. Someone selling may not have this information. On the other hand, If all the HF-1's were FS's, with posted prices, instead of IC's there would be a market value history.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:17 AM Post #32 of 77

solbergg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pawlowski6132
Ebay is a great way to find out what something is worth if you're not sure. Try it.


Actually, I think Ebay is more what you are looking for. The buyers are locked into their bids, and the sellers lose money if they decide to cancel their auction.

Now, if someone did an IC and then haggled with me until we agreed on a price, I would expect that to be an actual, serious bid. I do not condone ICers that would then decide not to sell. But if they just want to hear a few price points of what buyers are willing to pay, that is perfectly acceptable. And again, if you don't like this method of sales, then just ignore it. Don't try to ban it just because it doesn't fit your method of trade.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:19 AM Post #33 of 77
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Another problem with ICs is, there are no rules of decorum. It's like a lawless auction.

For example, if I post an IC for a pair of K1000s and someone makes me an offer of $600. Probably not too bad. What am I obligated to tell the person, "Nice offer. They're yours if I don't get anything better in 30 days" or, do I make a counter offer. Or, if I accept, can I reject if I get a better offer in the next twenty minutes??? Seems like lots of trouble.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:20 AM Post #34 of 77

jjcha

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pawlowski6132
Jason, can you please expound or restate your point. It's being lost on me and I'm trying to understand it (we no think too good here in Indiana.)


Heh, sorry mate, just my tendency of using 3 words when just 1 would do the better. And your understanding of economic analysis is 100% correct.

I guess what I'm pointing to is more behavioral, in that when sellers quote a high, but optimistic price, and then need to lower their bids, that gives information that their good isn't in demand. That gets buyers optimistic that they can get it for a lower price. It's not difficult to imagine a situation where seller A quotes a price of $1200 but has to lower it to $1100, $1000, and finally $900 before finding a buyer. But seller B, if they quote a straight price of $1000, would find a buyer at that price.

I'm not fully committed to this, but my guess is that this dynamic works to the detriment of sellers more than it does to buyers. In other words, when a buyer offers $800 in a WTB (which rarely happens), and then has to raise it to 900 or 1000, the anchoring impact isn't as strong as it is when a seller has to sell.

Regardless, the discussion is going elsewhere. BTW, it is not inconsistent that some sellers choose to publish prices regardless of the fact that they never quoted an asking price.
biggrin.gif


Best,

-Jason
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:21 AM Post #35 of 77

jjcha

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pawlowski6132
Another problem with ICs is, there are no rules of decorum. It's like a lawless auction.

For example, if I post an IC for a pair of K1000s and someone makes me an offer of $600. Probably not too bad. What am I obligated to tell the person, "Nice offer. They're yours if I don't get anything better in 30 days" or, do I make a counter offer. Or, if I accept, can I reject if I get a better offer in the next twenty minutes??? Seems like lots of trouble.



Buyers can counteract this by make an exploding offer. In other words tell them, "I'm interested in your good, and will offer $600, but the offer is withdrawn if not accepted in 24/48 hours."

Best,

-Jason
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:24 AM Post #37 of 77
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha
Heh, sorry mate, just my tendency of using 3 words when just 1 would do the better. And your understanding of economic analysis is 100% correct.

I guess what I'm pointing to is more behavioral, in that when sellers quote a high, but optimistic price, and then need to lower their bids, that gives information that their good isn't in demand. That gets buyers optimistic that they can get it for a lower price. It's not difficult to imagine a situation where seller A quotes a price of $1200 but has to lower it to $1100, $1000, and finally $900 before finding a buyer. But seller B, if they quote a straight price of $1000, would find a buyer at that price.

I'm not fully committed to this, but my guess is that this dynamic works to the detriment of sellers more than it does to buyers. In other words, when a buyer offers $800 in a WTB (which rarely happens), and then has to raise it to 900 or 1000, the anchoring impact isn't as strong as it is when a seller has to sell.

Regardless, the discussion is going elsewhere. BTW, it is not inconsistent that some sellers choose to publish prices regardless of the fact that they never quoted an asking price.
biggrin.gif


Best,

-Jason



Gotcha. So, you're talking about a potential perception that the cost of X is going down leading buyers to think that X is not worth today as much as it was yesterday. Hmmm. Very interesting. Let me noodle that one.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 4:25 AM Post #38 of 77
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong
IC: To Lobby against IC
tongue.gif




Seriously, IC's not a big deal. I use it sometime to check if i can sell a few things because i'm eyeing something else. ICs did not originate here. Every company does surveys to check the trend...those are ICs...



Sound like you're talking about a hypothetical IC vs. a real one (here) though.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 5:38 AM Post #40 of 77
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Original poster here. Couple follow-ups:

1. I'm lobbying against IC's, but do not believe they should be banned. I would want the change to come about as a community decision. Of course, it's not a huge deal, I mostly wanted to get my opinion out there and see how other people felt.

2. My main frustration with IC is the idea that the seller isn't sure whether he wants to sell or not. You see buyers go to all this trouble to email offers and get interested, and then the seller says, "I've decided I can't part with it." or "I found a way to afford keeping my item AND buy the new thing I want". I just think your widget should either be for sale or not for sale. Of course occasionally someone will change his mind, but the frequency of ICs is just ridiculous.

The following paragraph uses all caps and is meant as a Dennis Miller style rant and not an expression of anger (i.e. it's all in fun):

Regarding IC as a way of soliciting the highest offer, that's interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I don't mind that as much, but just say that's what you're doing. Or better yet, just LIST THE STUPID PRICE IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO SELL IT. Tell you what, I'll write a little program that sends emails with offers starting at $10 and increasing every email by $10. When an email arrives that makes you want to sell, THAT'S YOUR ASKING PRICE. We can automate what is now taking the precious time of Head-Fiers crafting emails and getting disappointed.

3. I totally agree nobody should stamp SOLD over the price of their FS ads. Add SOLD, but don't remove the price. This one totally baffles me, I'm not sure why people do it.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 5:47 AM Post #41 of 77

nabwong

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Quote:

Originally Posted by matt8268
Original poster here. Couple follow-ups:

1. I'm lobbying against IC's, but do not believe they should be banned. I would want the change to come about as a community decision. Of course, it's not a huge deal, I mostly wanted to get my opinion out there and see how other people felt.

2. My main frustration with IC is the idea that the seller isn't sure whether he wants to sell or not. You see buyers go to all this trouble to email offers and get interested, and then the seller says, "I've decided I can't part with it." or "I found a way to afford keeping my item AND buy the new thing I want". I just think your widget should either be for sale or not for sale. Of course occasionally someone will change his mind, but the frequency of ICs is just ridiculous.

The following paragraph uses all caps and is meant as a Dennis Miller style rant and not an expression of anger (i.e. it's all in fun):

Regarding IC as a way of soliciting the highest offer, that's interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I don't mind that as much, but just say that's what you're doing. Or better yet, just LIST THE STUPID PRICE IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO SELL IT. Tell you what, I'll write a little program that sends emails with offers starting at $10 and increasing every email by $10. When an email arrives that makes you want to sell, THAT'S YOUR ASKING PRICE. We can automate what is now taking the precious time of Head-Fiers crafting emails and getting disappointed.

3. I totally agree nobody should stamp SOLD over the price of their FS ads. Add SOLD, but don't remove the price. This one totally baffles me, I'm not sure why people do it.




Point 1 : Contradictory

Point 2 : That's exactly why people use IC, cos they aren't sure whether to sell or not.

Pont 3 : It is a free world
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 6:01 AM Post #42 of 77

Jasper994

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I've never understood why so many people get their panties in a twist over things they don't like but can easily ignore...
confused.gif
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 6:32 AM Post #43 of 77

dhp

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasper994
I've never understood why so many people get their panties in a twist over things they don't like but can easily ignore...
confused.gif



you mean like genocide and rape and civil strife in Africa?
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 6:38 AM Post #45 of 77

Jasper994

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInAFire
you mean like genocide and rape and civil strife in Africa?


Yup, and the many other instances, small and large, of this type of behavior. Even the whole "politically correct" attitude many people take is just screwed up. We should be teaching tollerance for the differences of others not intollerance. Intollerance just feeds into more of the same. Sure, there's no easy answer, but teaching tollerance, courtesy, and understanding would seem to get us a lot closer to the right path that what we're doing now.
 

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