[Sound Eq]

so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating

 

[Triodemode]

   
Hi,
 
From your description, it seems there is too much voltage drop in the cable so the iDSD cannot charge properly.
 
If it is okay, we suggest you try:
 
1) Use Eco mode if headphone Amp is not in use
 
2) Turn off if not in use, this maximises charge current

3) Use a powered BC1.2 compatible USB Hub (Orico or similar) at the end of the 5m cable to overcome the voltage drop
 
 
 
Also important, even though a USB3.0 port can supply 0.9A, the iDSD micro will limit itself to drawing no more than 0.5A, as the port is recognised as standard USB 2.0 port.
 
In normal mode the power draw from the iDSD micro exceeds 0.5A, so as per its SmartPower, the battery is used to supply the extra current needed. If the voltage drop across the long cable is too large, the charging is very sloooooow, especially if the iDSD micro is left switched on.
 
When switched on, the iDSD micro is trying to "be nice" and will not draw charge from weak USB ports in case they are smart phones, tablets etc.
 
When switched off however (hard off, not automatic sleep mode) the iDSD micro goes into "brute force"  charging and will draw as much current up to the limit of 0.5A regardless what port it is attached to it so yes, it will suck any smartphone or tablet battery flat if you let it).
 
 
Cheers.

Thank you for this excellent technical explanation...  Can you also describe how how much current the IDSD micro draws in Eco mode?  Would there be any long term consequenses in leaving the unit on 24/7 in this mode, as my USB ports remain powered even when the computer is off?  It's just much more convenient for me not having to turn the iDSD on and off every day.

 

[BillsonChang007]

so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating

Perhaps, iFi can offer you a better advice but thats my experience

 

[iFi audio]

  so everytime before i use the ipod i have to disconnect the cables and turn on the idsd first then connect it to the ipod, that is a bit irritating

 
Hi,

Yes, it is recommended that you turn on the iDSD first to activate battery power mode before connection.
 
You can always switch on afterwards but of course you are running on the iDevice's power.
 
If you wish to keep the whole set, including phone connected but turns the iDSD off...
 
It may be better to just leave it running if not playing for a modest amount of time.
 
In sleep mode the battery should last around 2 days, so in normal day to day use no need to switch offor unplug, but charge in the evening overnight...
 
We are guessing here as we are not 100% on the issue. It just needs to be switched on prior to connection. Or if left on permanently (until flat) you dont have to unplug/replug anything.
 
Cheers.

 

[audiotweaker]

 
So the question is, how come I am draining the battery using the line out and powering the iDSD with an USB 3.0 port from a tower computer that never shuts down?
I have to add that I'm using a nice (as in expensive for a non-audiophile graded) 5 meters long USB 3.0 cable. I thought about voltage drop on such a length but I guess the iDSD wouldn't work if it didn't get the required 5V?
 
Same story goes when plugging the iDSD line out to the line in of the powered speakers.
 
Any idea would be appreciated
 

 
Is your 5 meter USB cable listed as being 'active'?  If so, the active components (signal amplifier or repeater) built into the cable will use some or all of the available USB 3 power leaving very little or none to keep the Micro iDSD charged.
 
Or, is your 5 meter USB cable a Corning Fiber Optic cable?  These cables have no power conductors in them and thus do not deliver USB power to your iDSD.
 
In both cases you will have to use a powered hub at the iDSD end of the cable in order to keep it charged, as iFi Audio suggests.

 

[Sound Eq]

i want to go back to the discussion is i wanna connect the idsd to an external amp like alo mk3 what is better to use direct or preamplifier and why?
 
my current setup guys is 
 
ipod--idsd-- balanced into alo mk3- balanced audeze
 
what an amazing setup
 
but as i mentioned what is the better way to use idsd with alo mk3 is by direct or preamplifier mode

 

[JuleZ3C]

   
Hi,
 
From your description, it seems there is too much voltage drop in the cable so the iDSD cannot charge properly.
 
If it is okay, we suggest you try:
 
1) Use Eco mode if headphone Amp is not in use
I'm using the normal mode to maximize the level of the 3D effect, seemed to me I was balancing between the 3D effect from the iDSD and the tube effect from the Ember used also as a preamp downstream (note that it may not make any sense...)
 
2) Turn off if not in use, this maximises charge current
But... but... you said letting it run continually would maximize battery life :
"- If unit is powered on, battery is only charged to 4.05V, to max battery life ( >3 Years for 70% capacitance). This is best option." (see below for complete quote and source)

3) Use a powered BC1.2 compatible USB Hub (Orico or similar) at the end of the 5m cable to overcome the voltage drop
 
 
 
Also important, even though a USB3.0 port can supply 0.9A, the iDSD micro will limit itself to drawing no more than 0.5A, as the port is recognised as standard USB 2.0 port.
Whaaaat!? Why is that? Even if I use a powered hub?
The Power Supply section special (i), states (here) :
B. “With such a humongous battery, it will take ages to recharge!”
This is why we integrated a special circuit to detect the attachment of dedicated charges and the special high power USB ports found on many modern computers. The micro iDSD can detect these ports and then can take advantage of the so-called BCP-1.2 standard, able to play audio AND draw 1,500mA from the computer, not just a measly 500mA. This way in normal operation the battery can recharge in only around 5 hours while simultaneously playing music.
Also, see below!
 
 
In normal mode the power draw from the iDSD micro exceeds 0.5A, so as per its SmartPower, the battery is used to supply the extra current needed. If the voltage drop across the long cable is too large, the charging is very sloooooow, especially if the iDSD micro is left switched on.
Even when using the line out? What are the typical current draw @2V (ECO) and @xV (NORMAL) when connected to a typical line in impedance?
 
When switched on, the iDSD micro is trying to "be nice" and will not draw charge from weak USB ports in case they are smart phones, tablets etc.
 
When switched off however (hard off, not automatic sleep mode) the iDSD micro goes into "brute force"  charging and will draw as much current up to the limit of 0.5A regardless what port it is attached to it so yes, it will suck any smartphone or tablet battery flat if you let it).
 
Are you saying there's no point using an external charger rated above 0.5A or USB ports BC1.1 or 1.2 compliant?
I'm at a loss when re-reading the addendum to chapter Super Duper 1.7 (here) :
 
How long to recharge the micro iDSD?
There are 3 charging options (approximate times based upon micro iDSD being off!):

---

1) Normal USB port (@500mA)                                                                                          ~12 Hours 
2) High-Powered USB port/Dedicated charger (using BC1.2 compliant charger @ 1.5A)                ~4 Hours 
 
Lastly, 
3) USB powered charger (like iUSB Power Power) @1A                                                          ~7 Hours
 

---

- If unit is powered on, battery is only charged to 4.05V, to max battery life ( >3 Years for 70% capacitance). This is best option.
- If unit is turned off, battery is charged to 4.2v or 100%, for cyclic use (ready for portable use).

---

Or are you trying to tell me that only because of the voltage drop isn't my USB port detected as BC1.1 (at least)?

So what is it in definitive?
 
 
Cheers.

 
Not really thrilled by your reply (see above), as I'll have to use two different USB cable from now on, a short(er) one while in desktop mode (using speakers) and a longer one in couch mode (using headphones), but hey, I'll live through it

 
Sorry for all the quoting, not ranting at all, I just really like to understand the hows and whys

 
Good game as always regarding your reaction time, much appreciated!
 
 

   
Is your 5 meter USB cable listed as being 'active'?  If so, the active components (signal amplifier or repeater) built into the cable will use some or all of the available USB 3 power leaving very little or none to keep the Micro iDSD charged.
 
Or, is your 5 meter USB cable a Corning Fiber Optic cable?  These cables have no power conductors in them and thus do not deliver USB power to your iDSD.
 
In both cases you will have to use a powered hub at the iDSD end of the cable in order to keep it charged, as iFi Audio suggests.

 
Just a plain and simple, although well built, USB 3.0 cable.
I may have a closer look to the Corning cable for a more permanent 'couch mode' setup.

 

[Sound Eq]

   
Not really thrilled by your reply (see above), as I'll have to use two different USB cable from now on, a short(er) one while in desktop mode (using speakers) and a longer one in couch mode (using headphones), but hey, I'll live through it

 
Sorry for all the quoting, not ranting at all, I just really like to understand the hows and whys

 
Good game as always regarding your reaction time, much appreciated!
 
 
 
Just a plain and simple, although well built, USB 3.0 cable.
I may have a closer look to the Corning cable for a more permanent 'couch mode' setup.

to be honest i did not understand one dam thing here

 

[JuleZ3C]

 
Well, my couch, where I like to be when using headphones, is 4 meters away from my speakers, TV, computer... quite a nice place to be (also to listen to music through speakers!   )
 
I like to use/fiddle with the iDSD and Ember controls when listening through headphones, so both are placed on a coffee table at hands reach of the couch.
To connect the iDSD to the computer, I'm using a long USB cable running through the room. Not elegant, but it does the job.
 
When going back to listening through speakers, both iDSD and Ember go in the shelf where the TV and speakers sit (a.k.a. The Desktop). At this point I'm just unplugging the headphones from the Ember's jack out and plug its line out to the (powered) speakers, leaving the USB cable connected, but hiding it nicely in the shelf.
 
Apparently, using a long USB cable is not recommended for long listening sessions as the battery will be drained in any case (power mode being on Normal, USB cable being (too) long), so I'll have to use the long one only when listening through headphones (no other choice here) then switch to a shorter one when going back to listening through speakers in order recharge the depleted battery.
 
Still waiting for a confirmation from iFi regarding the charge through a short USB cable while listening in normal mode as there seem to be differences between their previous answer (500mA max) and the different presentations given during the last steps of the crowd-design (up to 1.5A).
 
Depending on the answer, I may try the optical fiber interface audiotweaker told about, connected to a powered USB hub next to the couch, as it could be easier to hide this fiber along the walls instead of having cables running directly from the desktop to the couch)
 
Hope these lines make it clearer
If not, I can only hope the iFi team will see through my scribbled mess

 

[john57]

A 5 meter USB cable is quite long for a passive cable. Some DAC's will have a hard time in maintaining a signal lock at that distance. There is some active USB repeaters that have a extra power connection with a walmart for devices that require more power.

 

[technobear]

A 5 meter USB cable is quite long for a passive cable. Some DAC's will have a hard time in maintaining a signal lock at that distance. There is some active USB repeaters that have a extra power connection with a walmart for devices that require more power.

Nonsense! I use a 5 metre Kimber USB and have no issues whatsoever with an iDSD, an Audiolab 8200CDQ or a humble Arcam rPAC. No dropouts and no charging or power issues.

 

[jhwalker]

Nonsense! I use a 5 metre Kimber USB and have no issues whatsoever with an iDSD, an Audiolab 8200CDQ or a humble Arcam rPAC. No dropouts and no charging or power issues.

It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".

 

[john57]

Specially at maximum sample rate.

 

[senorx12562]

It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".

I've seen the published spec Technobear cites, but I wonder if there is a solution in the fact that the voltage drop is only an issue for charging, not data transmission?

 

[Triodemode]

It's not "nonsense" :/ The fact that you don't have issues with such a configuration means diddly. The fact is, USB cables are spec'd to a max of 5 meters, so the original poster is right on the edge of that spec. Again, at such a length, some will be just fine, but some will have issues - either way, it's certainly not "nonsense".

I agree...  5 meters is the industry limit for USB 2.0 cable length.  Additionally since he is running in Normal mode, the current draw of 500ma reaches the specified limit at a voltage drop of 5%.  He needs to either reduce the cable length or switch to Eco mode to maintain a correct battery charging condition.