iFi audio ZEN Stream - Streaming elevated to a higher plane

[skrzyp]

Here's an Airplay issue that I haven't seen previously mentioned: When I add the ZS as an airplay endpoint from Apple's iOS Remote app (which I use routinely to play music in multiple rooms via airport express units), it sees & connects to the ZS but there is no indication that anything is being streamed and no sound is produced. After such an attempt, the ZS disappears from the airplay device list on all my apple devices until I restart it. It seems that airplay streaming is possibly app-dependent. Otherwise, it has been performing admirably.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Hi folks,

Currently gathering a list of the most discussed issues with the Stream so we can add them to our to-be-fixed bug list.

From what I gather (please let me know if I miss anything), the most recurring or biggest issues that need solutions are:

- Big Sur / Mac OS devices not being able to identify/see/use the device at all through Apple Music.
- Some cases of DSD not being translated correctly from the streamer to the DAC.
- Some cases of the Stream not working from Qobuz and with Chromecast.

Thanks for your continued discussion and crowdsourcing of solutions, and I'll continue chiming in where I can!

Thank you very much! We appreciate it!!

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I thought OFS simply meant that the first unfold had already been performed by software allowing renderers to complete the process. The authentication has to be done prior to the first unfold at the source. You would need a full MQA decoder to authenticate at the DAC from the unmodified (not yet unfolded) stream. That's essentially the difference between full MQA decoders and MQA renderers. Isn't the final result the same?

I don't even remember hearing about "OFS" as a label for MQA until maybe 6 months ago, I forget what dac I was reading about at the time. So out of curiosity I pulled out my SMSL M500 which I have not updated the firmware since I got it. Hooked up the Zen Stream and went USB to the SMSL, Using Tidal Connect to the ZS.
Here's the result...

Now I did nothing in the Tidal Connect app, didn't open any side menu's or settings, just connected and hit play.
Perhaps I should check my newer Gustard X16, after all MQA keeps changing the rules and the colors and...well you know...

 

[Louisiana]

So this is, what ifi says to OFS:
https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/ofs-shows-instead-of-mqa/

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

So this is, what ifi says to OFS:
https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/ofs-shows-instead-of-mqa/

Ahhh, that's what I remember now. But that is something that came about after, OFS was not a thing from what I remember, as I said I remember reading about that and at the time all I had was the iFi Zen DAC and the SMSL for that were considered "MQA" obviously one is a renderer, one a full decoder. In the beginning of my MQA life span, all I had was a magenta light to tell me I was getting MQA

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Golden Sound has put out their measurements of the Zen Stream, you can check it out from the link below...

https://goldensound.audio/2021/07/22/ifi-zen-stream-measurements/

 

[rlw6534]

Ahhh, that's what I remember now. But that is something that came about after, OFS was not a thing from what I remember, as I said I remember reading about that and at the time all I had was the iFi Zen DAC and the SMSL for that were considered "MQA" obviously one is a renderer, one a full decoder. In the beginning of my MQA life span, all I had was a magenta light to tell me I was getting MQA

Yeah, I learned about OFS (or ORFS) from using Roon, where you can actually perform DSP and still have MQA authentication and rendering.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Here's an Airplay issue that I haven't seen previously mentioned: When I add the ZS as an airplay endpoint from Apple's iOS Remote app (which I use routinely to play music in multiple rooms via airport express units), it sees & connects to the ZS but there is no indication that anything is being streamed and no sound is produced. After such an attempt, the ZS disappears from the airplay device list on all my apple devices until I restart it. It seems that airplay streaming is possibly app-dependent. Otherwise, it has been performing admirably.

Thank you for the note, I added it to the developing list.

So this is, what ifi says to OFS:
https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/ofs-shows-instead-of-mqa/

Correcto!

Yeah, I learned about OFS (or ORFS) from using Roon, where you can actually perform DSP and still have MQA authentication and rendering.

I've heard about OFS, through us, but never really experienced it until using the Zen Stream until now. I get OFS using Roon as well run to Zen Stream > Neo iDSD > my Starke Sound VLOT tower speakers.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Thank you for the note, I added it to the developing list.



Correcto!



I've heard about OFS, through us, but never really experienced it until using the Zen Stream until now. I get OFS using Roon as well run to Zen Stream > Neo iDSD > my Starke Sound VLOT tower speakers.

Congrats on the Fantastic Measurements from Golden Sound, well deserved, The ZS is an awesome product!!

 

[Brubacca]

Is there going to be a Zen Stream tour? Maybe there was and I missed it. I participated in the NEO iDSD tour and ended up buying a unit. I’m just sayin…..

I’d love to compare it to my Raspberry pi with iPower X.

 

[dsnyder]

Looks to me your setup is actually proving my point, you DAC should be reading MQA Studio then the correct unfold.

Instead it reads OFS 192KHz.

Try the free version of the mConnect App with Tidal and then take a look at what you DAC says.

"OFS 192 kHz" is fine. He's still getting the full "MQA Experience."

In this case, the TIDAL app is performing the first unfold (MQA Core Decoding) and the DAC is acting as an MQA Renderer, completing subsequent unfolds, DAC-specific rendering, etc. End to end, the MQA stream is still 100% decoded. Even with a DAC that supports full MQA Decoding, this division of labor between media player software and firmware in the DAC can be advantageous. There can absolutely be sonic advantages to seeing "OFS" or "MQB" on a DAC instead of "MQA."

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

"OFS 192 kHz" is fine. He's still getting the full "MQA Experience."

In this case, the TIDAL app is performing the first unfold (MQA Core Decoding) and the DAC is acting as an MQA Renderer, completing subsequent unfolds, DAC-specific rendering, etc. End to end, the MQA stream is still 100% decoded. Even with a DAC that supports full MQA Decoding, this division of labor between media player software and firmware in the DAC can be advantageous. There can absolutely be sonic advantages to seeing "OFS" or "MQB" on a DAC instead of "MQA."

Hey @dsnyder look I can make my Gustard do tricks!!

 

[dsnyder]

Hi folks,

Currently gathering a list of the most discussed issues with the Stream so we can add them to our to-be-fixed bug list.

From what I gather (please let me know if I miss anything), the most recurring or biggest issues that need solutions are:

- Big Sur / Mac OS devices not being able to identify/see/use the device at all through Apple Music.
- Some cases of DSD not being translated correctly from the streamer to the DAC.
- Some cases of the Stream not working from Qobuz and with Chromecast.
- " When I add the ZS as an airplay endpoint from Apple's iOS Remote app (which I use routinely to play music in multiple rooms via airport express units), it sees & connects to the ZS but there is no indication that anything is being streamed and no sound is produced. After such an attempt, the ZS disappears from the airplay device list on all my apple devices until I restart it. It seems that airplay streaming is possibly app-dependent."
- Some cases of the Zen Stream not producing sound over SPDIF

Thanks for your continued discussion and crowdsourcing of solutions, and I'll continue chiming in where I can!

The only significant issue I've encountered so far that's not on your list:

- Streaming from TIDAL Connect to a S/PDIF DAC produces clipping distortion during loud passage (re: the Bruno Mars tracks)

No issues with TIDAL Connect to a USB DAC or Roon (USB or S/PDIF) for the same tracks.

 

[dsnyder]

Hey @dsnyder look I can make my Gustard do tricks!!

I mean, sure.

Any DAC capable of full MQA decoding can do that. Just depends on settings and behavior upstream in the media player.

One strange thing I found with a direct USB connection between the NEO iDSD and my MacBook Pro is that I could not get TIDAL to do the first unfold. Regardless of the "Passthrough MQA" setting in the TIDAL app, I was getting "MQA." on the display. That's broken…or at least not what I would expect. There should be a way to get TIDAL to complete the first unfold if I want…

Unrelated, but when streaming via TIDAL Connect, I was never able to get the DAC to show "OFS". It was not detecting an MQA stream at all, so showing "PCM 96 kHz" instead of "OFS" or "MQA." Thinking back, this may have been over S/PDIF instead of USB, but the NEO iDSD supports MQA decoding and rendering via both inputs, so that should not have mattered. Gustard only does MQA Decoding over USB, but it will do Rendering over the other inputs.

 

[dsnyder]

I thought OFS simply meant that the first unfold had already been performed by software allowing renderers to complete the process. The authentication has to be done prior to the first unfold at the source. You would need a full MQA decoder to authenticate at the DAC from the unmodified (not yet unfolded) stream. That's essentially the difference between full MQA decoders and MQA renderers. Isn't the final result the same?

Yup. Agreed 100%.