iFi audio ZEN Stream - Streaming elevated to a higher plane

Jul 22, 2021 at 5:57 PM Post #556 of 6,294
I mean, sure.

Any DAC capable of full MQA decoding can do that. Just depends on settings and behavior upstream in the media player.

One strange thing I found with a direct USB connection between the NEO iDSD and my MacBook Pro is that I could not get TIDAL to do the first unfold. Regardless of the "Passthrough MQA" setting in the TIDAL app, I was getting "MQA." on the display. That's broken…or at least not what I would expect. There should be a way to get TIDAL to complete the first unfold if I want…

Unrelated, but when streaming via TIDAL Connect, I was never able to get the DAC to show "OFS". It was not detecting an MQA stream at all, so showing "PCM 96 kHz" instead of "OFS". Thinking back, this may have been over S/PDIF instead of USB, but the NEO iDSD supports MQA decoding and rendering via both inputs, so that should not have mattered. Gustard only does MQA Decoding over USB, but it will do Rendering over the other inputs.
Refresh my memory, on the Tidal app for Mac is the app supposed to do the first unfold or is it not, you can see how long it's been since I worried about this stuff, lol.

Pretty soon I'm gonna be upset if I don't see a magenta light, lmao

Thank god for Roon!! 🤣
 
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Jul 22, 2021 at 6:03 PM Post #557 of 6,294
I took the Pepsi challenge with the original Nucleus a few years ago, I wasn't impressed, same with the software Roon Core trial today.
It's more then just sound quality, there is a heavy handiness about it I just don't like, not to mention the yearly fee.
I almost broke out in a rash.

Maybe if somebody snuck in my house and secretly mounted the new Nucleus and set it all up for me and it just worked... I might give it a try.
I see that from a lot of folks. The problem with Nucleus is that it looks too much like an audio component. As such, many (most?) Roon subscribers fail to resist the temptation to plug their DAC into it. In reality, there's nothing "audio grade" or special about the USB ports on the Nucleus. It actually performs quite poorly as a digital audio transport, while the opposite is true of the iFi ZEN Stream!

I don't know how you connected it when you were doing your trial a few years ago, but unless the only cables run to your Nucleus were Ethernet and power, it may not have received a fair shake. Not your fault. Roon has not done the best job explaining this fact to subscribers, and the attractive casework belies the unit's poor sonic performance with a directly connected DAC.

Roon Labs does have a KB article on how to get the best sound quality from their platform, but few subscribers take the time to read it, and even fewer understand it will enough to embrace its prescriptions: https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality
 
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Jul 22, 2021 at 6:06 PM Post #558 of 6,294
Refresh my memory, on the Tidal app for Mac is the app supposed to do the first unfold or is it not, you can see how long it's been since I worried about this stuff, lol.

Pretty soon I'm gonna be upset if I don't see a magenta light, lmao

Thank god for Roon!! 🤣
There's a button on the TIDAL app for macOS that enables one to disable software decoding of MQA. Missing, perhaps, is a button to require it. :)


Screen Shot 2021-07-21 at 8.31.39 PM.png
 
Jul 22, 2021 at 6:13 PM Post #559 of 6,294
There's a button on the TIDAL app for macOS that enables one to disable software decoding of MQA. Missing, perhaps, is a button to require it. :)


Yes I remember that, and see it, however I would assume we are not seeing that because of connecting to a "streamer" without an onboard dac, am I wrong?

Edit for clarity: For instance it does not matter what dac I have connected to the ZS in Tidal Connect it only shows the ZS.
 
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Jul 22, 2021 at 8:03 PM Post #560 of 6,294
Why didn't you guys implement WiFi 6? :thinking:
 
Jul 22, 2021 at 8:07 PM Post #561 of 6,294
Why didn't you guys implement WiFi 6? :thinking:
First, who's you guys? lol

Second, probably because it's probably wasn't necessary! We are talking about music hear not 8K video or gaming. I have no issues with my measly gig internet connection.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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Jul 23, 2021 at 3:57 AM Post #562 of 6,294
Now that I had a few days off and was able to experiment a lot, I'll keep the ifi stream.
The overall package is great, and I don't think of any device that offers it all for € 400.
I have a free hand with the Raspberry Pi, but the Pi is and will remain a 'budget' solution.
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 11:07 AM Post #563 of 6,294
The only significant issue I've encountered so far that's not on your list:

- Streaming from TIDAL Connect to a S/PDIF DAC produces clipping distortion during loud passage (re: the Bruno Mars tracks)

No issues with TIDAL Connect to a USB DAC or Roon (USB or S/PDIF) for the same tracks.

Thanks! Added.

Why didn't you guys implement WiFi 6? :thinking:

It wasn't widely used or requested enough for us to warrant it!

Now that I had a few days off and was able to experiment a lot, I'll keep the ifi stream.
The overall package is great, and I don't think of any device that offers it all for € 400.
I have a free hand with the Raspberry Pi, but the Pi is and will remain a 'budget' solution.

Thank you! Enjoy!
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 11:19 AM Post #564 of 6,294
Updated to 2.28, now Tidal streams stop playing mid song :frowning2:

Edit: seems wifi and wired were enabled (device had two IP’s). Have disabled wifi - will see how that goes!
 
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Jul 23, 2021 at 11:40 AM Post #565 of 6,294
First, who's you guys? lol

Second, probably because it's probably wasn't necessary! We are talking about music hear not 8K video or gaming. I have no issues with my measly gig internet connection.

Referring to the manufacturer / engineers / decision makes, of course :upside_down:

I can somewhat understand your point. Although, why wouldn't the consumer expect new products to have the latest standards and protocols? Imagine you bought a new mobile phone or Smart TV and it sported yesteryears Bluetooth and WiFi-protocols with the same excuse you provided, would that feel equally Ok? We can be pretty sure noone is caring about 8K on their phone either right?

Say you have a pretty "well utilized" (read: congested) home network that your family uses for their different needs. Gaming, streaming, surfing, web-tv etc and so on. And now you want to put the Zen Steam into this already pretty loaded network and it does not have any of the new technologies WiFi 6 offers that could, potentially, greatly alleviate any further congestion. Not to mention helping to keep the network latencies low and save on the power bill with the new power-saving features. Among other benefits! It's not just about raw speed and throughput. This is important I feel, for me at least. I can totally understand like, single people with basically nothing "in the air", and basically no network or activity in said network to talk about. in that case... who cares? Use wifi 3. (No, not really... just trying to make a point)

As a side note of sorts; iFi frequently tries to make a big deal about having USB 3.0 on their products. (And I've been quite vocal about their shady practices surrounding this very topic in the past) Want to talk about some completely unnecessary overkill, well look no further. But, that's a good thing. They should utilize the latest standards. It looks good on the spec sheet, it's "future proof", and it helps the consumer feel good about their purchase. "What consumers would actually need" is a line written down somewhere in the "manufacturers underground stand-up comedy guidebook". Heck, even us consumers don't give a single _ _ _ _ what we would actually need vs how much we could possibly get. If you want your product to compete / be competitive, you'd better spec it accordingly in today's market conditions. Or, if you made some substantial savings by using the more "cost-effective" (in marketing speak) solution, why not roll that into the marketing pitch and tell the consumer about what they gained in return (if anything... of course). Turning a negative into a positive! That's definitely a thing!

Edit:
It wasn't widely used or requested enough for us to warrant it!
I see, thanks for the answer!

Well, I use WiFi 6 except for a few "legacy" products we still have at home that we keep going (and some appliances, smart fan etc). I would have loved it if the Zen Stream would have had WiFi 6 capability as well. I was excited for this product, one of the / if not The most exciting product iFi have launched in a long time, but that exclusion was a little bummer amid the excitement. I am just one voice. But, that is one customer's voice at least, that both use and would have wanted it.

And, I was not aware that we (meaning us consumers) needed to request to iFi that they implement the latest standards and protocols for them to actually appear in their future product releases. I will certainly keep this in mind for the future :writing_hand:
 
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Jul 23, 2021 at 12:50 PM Post #566 of 6,294
New firmware updates for the Zen Stream are live! V2.28 is available for update through the app or your IP. This is not a firmware update from the downloads section of the website.

Fixes: Added APIs for Android/iOS apps, fixed bricking system reset, updated translation, added media server tag, disabled hotspot feedback, optimised some threads.
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 12:51 PM Post #567 of 6,294
Updated to 2.28, now Tidal streams stop playing mid song :frowning2:

Edit: seems wifi and wired were enabled (device had two IP’s). Have disabled wifi - will see how that goes!

Keep us posted, I'll keep the rest of our team in the loop.
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 1:23 PM Post #568 of 6,294
Unfortunately, I cannot update my device - it charges up to 60%, then it reports an error and hangs so that I have to pull the plug...
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 1:23 PM Post #569 of 6,294
Referring to the manufacturer / engineers / decision makes, of course :upside_down:

I can somewhat understand your point. Although, why wouldn't the consumer expect new products to have the latest standards and protocols? Imagine you bought a new mobile phone or Smart TV and it sported yesteryears Bluetooth and WiFi-protocols with the same excuse you provided, would that feel equally Ok? We can be pretty sure noone is caring about 8K on their phone either right?

Say you have a pretty "well utilized" (read: congested) home network that your family uses for their different needs. Gaming, streaming, surfing, web-tv etc and so on. And now you want to put the Zen Steam into this already pretty loaded network and it does not have any of the new technologies WiFi 6 offers that could, potentially, greatly alleviate any further congestion. Not to mention helping to keep the network latencies low and save on the power bill with the new power-saving features. Among other benefits! It's not just about raw speed and throughput. This is important I feel, for me at least. I can totally understand like, single people with basically nothing "in the air", and basically no network or activity in said network to talk about. in that case... who cares? Use wifi 3. (No, not really... just trying to make a point)

As a side note of sorts; iFi frequently tries to make a big deal about having USB 3.0 on their products. (And I've been quite vocal about their shady practices surrounding this very topic in the past) Want to talk about some completely unnecessary overkill, well look no further. But, that's a good thing. They should utilize the latest standards. It looks good on the spec sheet, it's "future proof", and it helps the consumer feel good about their purchase. "What consumers would actually need" is a line written down somewhere in the "manufacturers underground stand-up comedy guidebook". Heck, even us consumers don't give a single _ _ _ _ what we would actually need vs how much we could possibly get. If you want your product to compete / be competitive, you'd better spec it accordingly in today's market conditions. Or, if you made some substantial savings by using the more "cost-effective" (in marketing speak) solution, why not roll that into the marketing pitch and tell the consumer about what they gained in return (if anything... of course). Turning a negative into a positive! That's definitely a thing!

Edit:

I see, thanks for the answer!

Well, I use WiFi 6 except for a few "legacy" products we still have at home that we keep going (and some appliances, smart fan etc). I would have loved it if the Zen Stream would have had WiFi 6 capability as well. I was excited for this product, one of the / if not The most exciting product iFi have launched in a long time, but that exclusion was a little bummer amid the excitement. I am just one voice. But, that is one customer's voice at least, that both use and would have wanted it.

And, I was not aware that we (meaning us consumers) needed to request to iFi that they implement the latest standards and protocols for them to actually appear in their future product releases. I will certainly keep this in mind for the future :writing_hand:

Troll.
 
Jul 23, 2021 at 1:35 PM Post #570 of 6,294
Unfortunately, I cannot update my device - it charges up to 60%, then it reports an error and hangs so that I have to pull the plug...
Did a factory reset, now it works.
 

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