iFi audio ZEN Stream - Streaming elevated to a higher plane

[knudsen]

I've had the Zen for 4-5 days and it is really, really good! Everything I've tried works fine.

I also have had a pi2aes for a year, it is powered by a lt3045-based 30v supply. It is on a pi 3b.
The Zen is powered by a Ferrum Hypsos and/or the 12V Ipower that came along with it.

I know that the best input on my Lyngdorf tdai-3400 is the AES. That was a problem, as Zen only has coax. I finally succeeded making an adapter cable, so I can connect the Zen to AES input, by shorting pins 2 and 3, so I could compare them on equal feet. With regards to the pi2aes the results are consistent, no matter if I use AES or coax out with this adapter cable.

I find they are very much alike, differences are small but I find consistent after I determined them.
Zen has maybe more control/power and a highly intense sound. It is more forward sounding, it projects the sounds forward so the singer for example is right in the room. I like that, it's pretty cool! So it sounds as you are sitting on first row at the concert. It may be even more clean sounding that the pi2aes, voices for example have no edges what so ever. It may have a bit more control lowest down. I find it is a little bit "stressfull".
Pi2aes is more relaxed and analogue sounding. It consistently has a better 3d and depth to the soundstage, and it is not as forward sounding - the sound is projected more inline or behind the speakers, so it seems as you are sitting further back at the concert. Because of all this, sound seems a bit more natural and mature to me. Just a bit.

I've seen several (3 I think) who preferred the Zen, so I guess I am a minority Though I guess they didn't have a lt3045-based ps. I don't like the 5v mod for pi2aes, I find excellent 30v to be better.

Comparing the graphs on goldensound.audio they are also very very close. The winner seems to depend on the concrete format and power supplies.

Anyway, I definetly don't want to talk the Zen down as it is excellent. Just giving an alternative if you don't like it or find it too expensive. Optical is bad on pi2aes, but coax/AES/BNC all seems great. Pi2design has a more expensive upcoming streamer, Mercury, arriving soon, if you don't want to have anything to do with diy.

Just my opinion in my setup

 

[realmassy]

Nice comparison, thanks

 

[antastik]

Can I ask how you grounded it?

Simply by connecting a cable with one end bare wire to a chassis screw, the other end going to ground

 

[ctrlm]

The Zen is powered by a Ferrum Hypsos and/or the 12V Ipower that came along with it

Comparing the graphs on goldensound.audio they are also very very close. The winner seems to depend on the concrete format and power supplies.

Just my opinion in my setup

I also have a Ferrum Hypsos and I prefer the JS-2 powering the ZS when comparing 12V to 12V. The disclaimer being that my imagination could be influencing that decision

I got an iFi iPower with my ZS as it was a demo unit in the store but my audio nervosa won't let me put a wall wart anywhere near my setup.

 

[simon740]

Hello,

do you really hear the SQ differences on the ZS between the different power supplies? I have iPower 9V and iPower 12V.

So LPS is better?

regards,
Simon

 

[ctrlm]

Hello,

do you really hear the SQ differences on the ZS between the different power supplies? I have iPower 9V and iPower 12V.

So LPS is better?

regards,
Simon

@knudsen can comment - I didn't even try it with the supplied power supply, I left it in the box.

I had a crap sounding setup years ago with a couple of switching wall warts that was fixed with LPS's and I haven't used a wall wart since. Yes that's bloody minded and I could be missing out somewhere with what might be decent switching power supplies today, but I'm old and set in my ways

Besides.....I have a lot of LPS options kicking around so I need to keep them employed

 

[knudsen]

I'll be honest, I also didn't try with the iPower It is probably great and may be just as good as the Hypsos. I read the previous generation polluted the mains with noise, so I also try not to use smps. I don't know if true, you can read so much....
I also don't find the Hypsos so amazing as others, so I will probably sell it. But it is very handy for trying different stuff out (but then, a cheap lab supply also is. Had one but fried it with lifepo4 batteries).

The one I find better for the pi2aes is partly diy but only around 80-90$.

I tried grounding the chassis on Zen, though I don't understand why it should work. As I understand it a manufacturer can choose to connect the chassis to the power earth. Or double insulate the components from the chassis, in which case the chassis is not connected to anything. It is 2 different ways to make sure you don't get shocked by touching the chassis if an error occurs inside (like a wire with 230v detaches). But - since the power supply to Zen does not have earth it must be double insulated, in which case it should not matter to ground it (??). But I'm not an engineer.

Anyway, I felt pretty certain it worked. However going back to pi2aes it didn't work enough for my music style

 

[ctrlm]

Changing the output device from SPDIF to USB is annoying. When I change to USB:

1. It always defaults to "software" under mixer type despite me always saving it as "none" or "hardware"
2. Nine times out of ten I have to restart the unit after the change because choosing & playing tracks becomes unresponsive

After the restart it is fine and the settings I saved before it are in place.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

Are Bifrost 2 owners with the Zen Stream preferring USB or coax?

 

[srkbear]

Are Bifrost 2 owners with the Zen Stream preferring USB or coax?

Since the S/PDIF outputs are capped at 192khz, I can’t imagine anyone with a DAC that capable opting for anything other than USB. I use USB, although I purchased an aftermarket Wireworld Starlight USB cable to eliminate noise. Sounds great!

 

[srkbear]

Is anyone else using an aftermarket USB cable? I eschewed the stock cable from the Zen DAC v2 for a Wireworld Starlight in hopes of reducing noise…

 

[srkbear]

Changing the output device from SPDIF to USB is annoying. When I change to USB:

1. It always defaults to "software" under mixer type despite me always saving it as "none" or "hardware"
2. Nine times out of ten I have to restart the unit after the change because choosing & playing tracks becomes unresponsive

After the restart it is fine and the settings I saved before it are in place.

Same issue here. I have no idea why it would default to a software mixer that impacts audio quality—and since I’m using mine attached to a Zen DAC v2 I always turn the mixing section off. Every time I need to reboot I have to change it back.

I’m equally confused because the unit used to default to “hardware” until a recent firmware update. I wonder what iFi’s rationale for this could be, assuming they’ve noticed it…

 

[srkbear]

I’ve also noticed that when restoring defaults on the device it defaults back to the 1st generation firmware—I have to update it back to the latest version. I guess the firmware upgrades must be software only instead of writing to the SOC?

 

[ClieOS]

Is anyone else using an aftermarket USB cable? I eschewed the stock cable from the Zen DAC v2 for a Wireworld Starlight in hopes of reducing noise…

USB noise comes from three major area:

1) External interference picked up by the cable itself. Generally it is only a problem if the USB cable itself is very long (2M and above) and in a very RF polluted environment. For most home setting, this won't be a problem and normal decently built shielded USB cable will suffice. Keep the USB cable to relative short length is also a good solution. I actually use a 30cm USB cable myself.

2) Noisy USB power. This shouldn't really be a problem for ZEN Stream as it has built-in ANC to clean up USB power line.

3) Ground loop. This won't really get fixed by an expensive cable but an USB isolator.

 

[Sean H]

Hello,

what do you guys prefer - usb out or spdif out? I dont have any "good" coax cable (only one from Aliexpre... for 9€) so I cant compare this two outputs from ZS.
For now I have this combination : Zen Stream - Oyaide Neo d +usb class A cable - Ares II.

regards,
Simon

I own both the Bifrost 2 and Ares II and have found in both cases I prefer spdif coax. I have a Pangea Premier SE coaxial and USB cable and I also use a iFi Purifier USB. USB to me, like many others have said, just sounds a bit brighter and slightly more etched compared to coax. At first you might think it has more resolution but it's just more forward and unrefined to me. Coax sounds more musical, smoother, more relaxed.