[daytrader]

Yes, that was the goal indeed!

Can I ask a follow up to the iFi Blue, why the ESS and not the Burr Brown, do you think the former sounded better as implemented in the Blue? Also will you ever offer firmware update to improve sound quality or is it maxed limited as is, relative to its current hardware?

 

[daytrader]

deleted.

 

[shootertwist]

Its dac is good enough especially for its price but u could also connect it to a better dac, i used digital out and connected it to the mojo and pairing was great... so in a nutshell the dac is good but if u have better dacs then use that one if u prefer

 

[daytrader]

Its dac is good enough especially for its price but u could also connect it to a better dac, i used digital out and connected it to the mojo and pairing was great... so in a nutshell the dac is good but if u have better dacs then use that one if u prefer

The Chord Mojo is a serious upgrade to the dac. Thank you for your response but you do understand you hamstring your mojo by using the BT signal generated by the iFi Blue. It cannot transmit better than 24/96 in its current form. Your mojo through its usb does up to 32/768. This short coming does concern me with certain hi-res music reproduction. I’m curious if the iFI Blue can be upgraded to 32/768 via BT or is this just not possible without a physical cable?

Hope iFI can answer this question for us.

 

[richardloh]

Hi,

Just picked up my ifi zen blue, upgrade the firmware and all good.

When paired/connectedwith my Samsung note 9, I activated the LDAC option but bitrate somehow not fixed to preferred 990kbps despite unit is few feet away.

Do I always need to and ok to force 990kbps bitrate after I paired/connect or somewhere I can have it permanently on 990kbps ? Once disconnected, I can see that the Samsung Note 9 get back to the usual SBC codec etc.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[richardloh]

Oops ... got my answer here:

https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/

A quality Bluetooth codec is only as good as its connection strength. We’ve all experienced those irritating skips, and the risk of missed packages increases substantially as bandwidth requirements increase. Hence why Sony’s codec scales between 990 and 330kbps, to prioritize quality versus a stable connection. The important question is what can consumers actually experience in the real world.

Out of the box, LDAC defaults to its “Best Effort (Adaptive Bit Rate)” option, which will pick 330, 660, or 990kbps based on the strength of your connection. For starters, let’s test which mode a number of smartphones default to when connecting to our LDAC test gear at just an arm’s length away.

PHONE	LG V30+	SAMSUNG GALAXY NOTE 8	HUAWEI P20 PRO	HUAWEI P20	GOOGLE PIXEL 3 XL	GOOGLE PIXEL 3
LDAC 'Best Effort' Setting	990kbps	660kbps	660kbps	660kbps	330kbps	330kbps

Out of the phones we tested, only the LG V30+ defaults to 990kbps. Other phones tend to start at the 600kbps option, lowering their quality if the connection worsens. The new Google Pixel 3 and 3 XL review units were stuck on 330kbps, so perhaps better support is coming in the future. The bottom line is: it’s quite unlikely that your phone will opt for 990kbps LDAC unless you manually force the settings via the developer options.

With apology.

Cheers.

 

[iFi audio]

Can I ask a follow up to the iFi Blue, why the ESS and not the Burr Brown, do you think the former sounded better as implemented in the Blue? Also will you ever offer firmware update to improve sound quality or is it maxed limited as is, relative to its current hardware?

We adressed your question already in here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio’s-ask-me-anything-thread-thorsten-loesch.923910/page-3#post-15466235

In this long post please scroll down to the reply we gave to the user Yethal.

To quote our own post:

"ESS Sabre chips aren’t new to us, we used these in the original iDAC. There are some applications where the Burr-Brown DSD1793 (which we like so much!) does not function as well as it could. Where that’s the case, then we use the next best (subjectively) sounding chip available. The ZEN DAC uses the Burr-Brown DSD1793, yes. But the ESS Sabre chip inside the ZEN Blue has the advantage of eliminating jitter at the source. This is why in this application the ESS chip sounds better than a DSD1793. We needed a chip that could counteract the extremely high jitter (~10,000ps) clocks of the Bluetooth chipset. "

With apology.

I’m curious if the iFI Blue can be upgraded to 32/768 via BT or is this just not possible without a physical cable?

Hope iFI can answer this question for us.

The BT chip used in ZEN Blue and Aurora is Qualcomm's latest and it remains to be seen whether the manufacturer of this chip will expand its capabilities.

 

[daytrader]

We adressed your question already in here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio’s-ask-me-anything-thread-thorsten-loesch.923910/page-3#post-15466235

In this long post please scroll down to the reply we gave to the user Yethal.

To quote our own post:

"ESS Sabre chips aren’t new to us, we used these in the original iDAC. There are some applications where the Burr-Brown DSD1793 (which we like so much!) does not function as well as it could. Where that’s the case, then we use the next best (subjectively) sounding chip available. The ZEN DAC uses the Burr-Brown DSD1793, yes. But the ESS Sabre chip inside the ZEN Blue has the advantage of eliminating jitter at the source. This is why in this application the ESS chip sounds better than a DSD1793. We needed a chip that could counteract the extremely high jitter (~10,000ps) clocks of the Bluetooth chipset. "

Thank you for the repost and helping me understand your reasoning.








The BT chip used in ZEN Blue and Aurora is Qualcomm's latest and it remains to be seen whether the manufacturer of this chip will expand its capabilities.

So it’s just a question of waiting for the BT chip technology to catch up to higher rez transmission. Which based on what I’ve read can cause more problems if these chips are not done properly.

 

[iFi audio]

So it’s just a question of waiting for the BT chip technology to catch up to higher rez transmission.

Yes, something like that!

 

[shootertwist]

The Chord Mojo is a serious upgrade to the dac. Thank you for your response but you do understand you hamstring your mojo by using the BT signal generated by the iFi Blue. It cannot transmit better than 24/96 in its current form. Your mojo through its usb does up to 32/768. This short coming does concern me with certain hi-res music reproduction. I’m curious if the iFI Blue can be upgraded to 32/768 via BT or is this just not possible without a physical cable?

Hope iFI can answer this question for us.

Of course i do understand that, but thank you for assuming i buy and use gears i know nothing about, lol.
My mojo is connected to my chord poly most of the time, just telling you that yes the dac could be upgraded if u want that’s the best thing about this ifi device it has a pure digital out so it is very versatile.

If you are too concerned about hi-res musical reproduction, you do understand this is a bluetooth device and of course will not be as good as a cable technically speaking?

What ifi did is superb, yes it may not be technically up there with resolving your “hi res” files in its pure glory but close your eyes and take a listen and you’ll hardly realize its wireless, it is that good.

 

[daytrader]

Source / streamers and earphones do make a difference. With your Poly, you should be able to max the ifi BT potential, receiving up to 24/192. It’s always been important for the end user to understand limitations within the audio chain. Even 16/44 in some systems can sound pleasant, I do agree even with eyes open. Case in point...My vinyl rig given the right circumstance, Herman Miller Eames lounger with single malt in hand, late night has never been bettered!! Enjoy.

 

[richardloh]

Source / streamers and earphones do make a difference. With your Poly, you should be able to max the ifi BT potential, receiving up to 24/192. It’s always been important for the end user to understand limitations within the audio chain. Even 16/44 in some systems can sound pleasant, I do agree even with eyes open. Case in point...My vinyl rig given the right circumstance, Herman Miller Eames lounger with single malt in hand, late night has never been bettered!! Enjoy.

Hi Daytrader,

Can help clarify on mentioned 24/192 as you had rightfully mentioned that it is important for enduser to know the audio chain ?

I just checked and mojo has digital input which the ifi zen blue has the digital output to match but cannot find the sampling/bitrate of the latter ..

Is it 24/192 and ifi zen blue's stated BT 24/96 gets upsampled to 24/192 in its digital output ?

Hope you are not suggesting having ifi zen blue's stated analog output at 24/192 to be injected into mojo as it not preferred for double conversion and using inferior dac in the ifi zen blue as compared to well received mojo dac.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[shootertwist]

Source / streamers and earphones do make a difference. With your Poly, you should be able to max the ifi BT potential, receiving up to 24/192. It’s always been important for the end user to understand limitations within the audio chain. Even 16/44 in some systems can sound pleasant, I do agree even with eyes open. Case in point...My vinyl rig given the right circumstance, Herman Miller Eames lounger with single malt in hand, late night has never been bettered!! Enjoy.

I am not using the poly on my ifi zen blue. You merely asked about the dac of the ifi zen blue, hence i replied it can be connected to the mojo via the digital out (optical) of the zen blue if you want. That was merely a sample case. Dont you worry about my gears, i know how to use them, i'm not a noob in this hobby lol

 

[daytrader]

Hi Daytrader,

Can help clarify on mentioned 24/192 as you had rightfully mentioned that it is important for enduser to know the audio chain ?

I just checked and mojo has digital input which the ifi zen blue has the digital output to match but cannot find the sampling/bitrate of the latter ..

Is it 24/192 and ifi zen blue's stated BT 24/96 gets upsampled to 24/192 in its digital output ?
This is a question for ifi to answer, I’ve seen both 24/96 and 24/192 stated in different pieces of literature from iFi. I‘m guessing it might upsample through the digital outs to the 192. If it does so through the analogs, SE or bal, is another question?

Hope you are not suggesting having ifi zen blue's stated analog output at 24/192 to be injected into mojo as it not preferred for double conversion and using inferior dac in the ifi zen blue as compared to well received mojo dac.
I agree, stacking double conversions is likely not helpful. I would think using the digital outs would bypass the analog dac in the Zen Blue but again I’m not sure after reading the website if they do it? Another point of clarification here, from iFi would be nice.

BTW, The PRO iDSD...integrates a WiFi/network playback system, with built-in a full standalone streamer/network audio player with 32 bit/192kHz & DSD64 support. It seems BT just isn’t there yet?

Cheers.

Richard

 

[OuYang]

I think ZEN Blue won't upsample digital output, you can check this by setting Bits Per Sample & Sample Rate in Android's Developer options then watch your external DAC's input info if available.