iFi audio NEO Stream - Sweet Streams!
Dec 6, 2022 at 11:41 AM Post #646 of 1,452
does the neo stream update the firmware automatically even when it is in Roon mode? or do I need to be in AIO mode to manually trigger the update via the app?
I’ve never found the auto update to work at all to be honest. I’ve had to switch to AIO mode and update manually. If you want to update to the beta, you can browse to ifi.local/dev and click on the “enable” button under the beta option. The screen will almost imperceptibly flash. Then browse back to ifi.local and run the update again under the system settings tab.

The latest beta is very stable for me and seems to have fixed the drop out issues.
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 7:13 PM Post #647 of 1,452
This is simply not true. A digital signal transmitted electrically is one where above a certain voltage is considered a "1" and below a certain voltage is considered a "0". It has a set timing to those fluctuations. Such a signal can have various issues:
  • Impedance mismatch in the physical components. This will cause reflections to bounce between components.
  • Noise. This can be at a different frequency and is often carried through the ground plane. This is why a DAC with a non-isolating USB set-up can sound better if you use a DAP as a source (not connected to power) than a computer, because it wont carry noise over the ground plane. The noise can affect the analog output.
  • Jitter. Mostly resolved in modern DACs these days, so usually irrelevant.
  • USB protocol communications and interruptions between components causing the USB receiver to do more processing, produce more noise, and, depending on the design, affect the rest of the circuits in the DAC. This is why dedicated audio playback software often has an "exclusive" mode.
All of the above is well-known and, where relevant, the effects are measurable.
Wow, that seemed really uncalled for. Whether I’m incorrect about the issue, whether I didn’t convey what I meant to say adequately, or whether you misunderstood my post—I don’t appreciate the tone of your response or the implication that I’m uninformed about the topic.

That kind of officious style is the furthest thing from conducive to respectful discourse on here. And if you actually knew anything about me, I’d hope you’d have recognized that I go out of my way to try to be helpful on here any way I can, and if my fund of knowledge on a particular topic is shaky, I either say so or don’t weigh in at all.

That being said, without any intellectually intimidating language whatsoever I am quite confident in my point of view that none of the factors you pointed out in your lecture (their scientific validity aside) are germane to the audible result. All pure streamers sound exactly the same, period. They are network transports. The only thing you need to achieve the best possible sound quality you’re gonna get from a digital streaming source is a basic RPI, or the equivalent (such as the Zen Stream). That’s been “well-known and measurable” too—if you disagree then I have no choice but to question your motives.

This is an industry-supported forum. Manufacturers may adore you for validating their marketing strategies, but my motives are in large part to advocate for folks’ wallets on here. Someone has to value sorting out the truth from the hype on this site or some very unethical ideas can go unchecked.

To that end, I happen to be a big fan of the offerings from @iFi audio because they do the streaming job beautifully at very reasonable prices—the most reasonable one can find, in my opinion. That’s why I support them with my purchases, and it’s one of my primary motives for contributing on this thread. I don’t quite know what yours are, but I don’t think they were intentionally malicious—I’m just going to assume that I poorly conveyed my intent and positions and leave it there.

That’s all I really want to say on this, and I’m not looking to be a big shot or to start a fight—that isn’t me at all. So please don’t offer another counterattack. I’m fine with agreeing to disagree if necessary, and I think it’s great that we both share a love of music. Peace.
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 11:56 PM Post #648 of 1,452
Searching but could not find the answer...

@iFi audio

Will Optibox be made available separately as an accessory at what prince?

Thanks!
 
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Dec 7, 2022 at 12:52 AM Post #650 of 1,452
So…how does the NEO Stream sound as a streamer only? I’ve yet to encounter a better sounding streamer than my Mac Mini + Audirvana? But I know the days are numbered on Audirvana 3.5.
It sounds perfect! As a micro computer it’ll transport every bit as well as your PC. If you only want a streamer and don’t care about DSD522, go with the Zen Stream. If you want to uuto dsd512, then get the ZS.
 
Dec 7, 2022 at 3:35 AM Post #651 of 1,452
.... If you only want a streamer and don’t care about DSD522, go with the Zen Stream. If you want to uuto dsd512, then get the ZS.
You are right, for DSD512 (and even 1024), it is possible with a compatible dac and a simple RPI4.
What remains annoying is that the Neo and the ZS have the same card but one has a more advanced software environment.
DSD512 for the Neo, DSD256 for the ZS while, in principle, the Firefly card is identical.
And if you have SSH access to the Neo, it would be interesting to know what the kernel version is.
 
Dec 7, 2022 at 5:39 AM Post #652 of 1,452
I’ve never found the auto update to work at all to be honest. I’ve had to switch to AIO mode and update manually. If you want to update to the beta, you can browse to ifi.local/dev and click on the “enable” button under the beta option. The screen will almost imperceptibly flash. Then browse back to ifi.local and run the update again under the system settings tab.

The latest beta is very stable for me and seems to have fixed the drop out issues.
Have done the Beta update, lets see how it does.
 
Dec 7, 2022 at 7:46 AM Post #653 of 1,452
I posted the other day about wanting to hear the DAC in the Neo as opposed to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC that I had been using since acquiring the Neo a couple of weeks ago. I do love the sound of my Mytek DAC, but after a couple of days exposure to the iFi DAC I must say it sounds terrific. For anybody contemplating buying the Neo who doesn't already have a DAC I would say that you are not only getting a terrific streamer, you are getting an amazing DAC too.
I am glad you got a chance to try it out, maybe it's iFi "House Sound" or maybe it's the NEO itself, but it has become obvious to me in what I am looking for in the sound profile is given to me completely by the NEO Stream and it's internal DAC, and If I ever find something in terms of a DAC that I think is better, I have plenty of digital outs to connect it!!
Well, I found its DAC section somewhere at the level of ZEN DAC Signature v2...I did not expect any magic here...
NS is a very capable streamer first of all, I think.
I agree that it may work if you don't have any stand-alone DAC at home.
I doubt that it can compete with a good `1000 USD desktop DAC...It could not compete with Composer 3XP, not at all...

So, I would be happy if ifi drop the DAC section in NS completely and make it as a pure streamer :wink: let's say 300 USD less in price)
I respectfully disagree with the comparison to the V2, if I had to pick another "DAC" from the iFi stable I would say it's closer to the Diablo in terms of its "sound signature"

I only say this because I have owned a V2 since it first came out, and of all the iFi DACs that I have had or still have, for some strange reason it is the DAC I care for the least! I have no idea why this is, but many times I have gone back to the Zen DAC V1, and I prefer that. I have no explanation for this, other than this is how I feel about it.

The Diablo I have always loved, since day one.

No offense, just my thoughts on it.

Cheers!!
 
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Dec 7, 2022 at 8:27 AM Post #654 of 1,452
I want to send some love to the Zen Stream as well. I think it is a great alternative to the Sonore ultraRendu which I also own. as much as I like the pairing of the Zen Stream on my Oppo HA-1, the Neo Stream makes my HA-1 sound much better. this is due to the DAC in the Neo Stream which is a pleasant surprise. I definitely prefer the DAC in the Neo Stream to the DAC in the HA-1. my Fostex TH900 cans sound lovely to my ears in the current chain.
 
Dec 7, 2022 at 9:13 AM Post #655 of 1,452
I am glad you got a chance to try it out, maybe it's iFi "House Sound" or maybe it's the NEO itself, but it has become obvious to me in what I am looking for in the sound profile is given to me completely by the NEO Stream and it's internal DAC, and If I ever find something in terms of a DAC that I think is better, I have plenty of digital outs to connect it!!

I respectfully disagree with the comparison to the V2, if I had to pick another "DAC" from the iFi stable I would say it's closer to the Diablo in terms of its "sound signature"

I only say this because I have owned a V2 since it first came out, and of all the iFi DACs that I have had or still have, for some strange reason it is the DAC I care for the least! I have no idea why this is, but many times I have gone back to the Zen DAC V1, and I prefer that. I have no explanation for this, other than this is how I feel about it.

The Diablo I have always loved, since day one.

No offense, just my thoughts on it.

Cheers!!
I have a V2 paired with the Zen Stream and like the sound of it through the Hegel H120 (with speakers and headphones). I like the tonal balance, its full, yet not congested, sound. Overall, I'd say it's pleasant, sounds natural and true to the music, especially acoustic music. But, has you've said, no offense taken. On the contrary, I'm always curious about possible improvements and these kind of comments are very useful in that regard. I don't have enough money to spend in useless upgrades and there's so many new DACs coming to the market nowadays that one gets lost with so much noise and brands. So, at the moment I ask myself: "should I sell the Zen Stream + V2 rig and buy the Neo, or would I be better just replacing the V2 by a better DAC, say the NEO iDSD, or something else at around that price point?". The NEO Stream is not exactly cheap, if you already own other equipment and are thinking about an upgrade. My rational self tells me that sticking to separates is the way to go, given the astonishing pace at which these digital devices are evolving and changing, but I'm reading so much good comments about the Neo Stream that I'm starting to question my rational side. As a matter of fact, the deep rational mind is telling me "do nothing and just enjoy the music with what you have now, after all it sounds great and all these novel gear will look old a year from now". :relaxed:
 
Dec 7, 2022 at 9:58 AM Post #656 of 1,452
I have a V2 paired with the Zen Stream and like the sound of it through the Hegel H120 (with speakers and headphones). I like the tonal balance, its full, yet not congested, sound. Overall, I'd say it's pleasant, sounds natural and true to the music, especially acoustic music. But, has you've said, no offense taken. On the contrary, I'm always curious about possible improvements and these kind of comments are very useful in that regard. I don't have enough money to spend in useless upgrades and there's so many new DACs coming to the market nowadays that one gets lost with so much noise and brands. So, at the moment I ask myself: "should I sell the Zen Stream + V2 rig and buy the Neo, or would I be better just replacing the V2 by a better DAC, say the NEO iDSD, or something else at around that price point?". The NEO Stream is not exactly cheap, if you already own other equipment and are thinking about an upgrade. My rational self tells me that sticking to separates is the way to go, given the astonishing pace at which these digital devices are evolving and changing, but I'm reading so much good comments about the Neo Stream that I'm starting to question my rational side. As a matter of fact, the deep rational mind is telling me "do nothing and just enjoy the music with what you have now, after all it sounds great and all these novel gear will look old a year from now". :relaxed:
If I were in your situation I would hopefully find someone nearby who maybe you could get a listen to the NS, or if you had some reliable place to purchase with say a 30 day no questions asked return policy, then that would give you an opportunity to listen to the NEO before making any big changes.

I think for me...(so far) The NEO stream is ticking all the boxes that I was looking for. When I first thought of doing an "All in one" I purchased the Cambridge CXN V2, and I honestly just did not care for the presentation or the "sound" I was getting from it. Then it was on to Raspberry PIs, Allo, and so on. Then the ZS came along, and I found something in there that appealed to me, and since then I have consistently fed any new DAC I have gotten with it, and been a big advocate for it.

Since I got the NS I have not once gone back and said to myself "Yes this is good, but..." for some reason, it just hits a sweet spot for me, and again this is only my opinion but to back it up with some facts, I recently just sold my Denafrips Ares II, nuts right? Well not for me, although the Ares is a completely Awesome DAC and highly recommended for its musicality, since I got the NS I honestly can say I just had no desire to listen to it as my main DAC, so as I am getting older, smarter, and running out of room, I sold it. I have not felt bad about it or missed it.

So my advice would be to find some way to hear it first if it works for you as it does for me, then sell what you got and you are happy with to recoup some funds.

Hope that helps you out some!

Cheers!!
 
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Dec 7, 2022 at 4:31 PM Post #657 of 1,452
@iFi audio

Will Optibox be made available separately as an accessory at what prince?

We don't have any info on the subject, but many people ask us about OptiBox as a standalone accessory, so who knows :)
 
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Dec 7, 2022 at 4:40 PM Post #658 of 1,452
Yes since most are moving to ethernet/streaming would be nice addition. Pair it with your iPower x and we have a winner.
Add some isolation + femto clock and will buy it a heartbeat (iLAN?).
 
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Dec 7, 2022 at 6:50 PM Post #659 of 1,452
Hi folks! For those who are early adopters, there’s a new beta 2.15.19, that has fixed the audio dropouts for me, as well as the network LED colors.
Yes it seems to have taken care of any dropouts I was having as well, although for me they were pretty infrequent it's still nice to see some progress on any issues we were having.

Here's a current update on any issues I am still seeing,...

Tidal MQA Gapless Issue (Digital noise or skip between tracks) Yes = Issues/No= No Issues

Tidal Connect in AIO Mode - Yes
Tidal Connect Mode - Yes
Tidal In Roon Ready Mode - No
Tidal In Roon (AIO) Mode - No
MConnect HD for iPad. -No
MConnect HD for Android -No

The software volume reset is still present, so be sure and check it if you like it set to none, after changing modes.

The display issue in Roon, (wrong track being displayed when playing an album) still seems to be there, although this does not seem to occur in playlist playback, it definitely still occurs when listening to a whole album. The Album Artwork is right but the track display hangs or is several songs behind the current track.
I have only noticed this issue with Roon, all other services seem ok.

If you don't know how to update to "beta" versions of the software, this ZS video will help you, the process is the same...



Cheers!!
 
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Dec 8, 2022 at 12:56 AM Post #660 of 1,452
it's closer to the Diablo
Well, I was not impressed by Diablo as a pure DAC either...again this is in comparison with a 1100+ USD desktop DAC on the ESS chip.
What I did like is NEO iDSD as a DAC (xlr output).

This is what I was saying for many years - Ifi is missing a mid-level product line in their portfolio.
This is why I use Burson products (Performance and GT line)- ifi just have nothing to offer in this niche with a similar SQ, unfortunately.

Hope they will develop and extend the NEO series with a pure DAC, pure amp, pure streamer (simple version of NS), etc...
 
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