[4LoveOfSound]

I have the same problem with mine.

Happens with Spotify connect and Roon using the coax out. Haven’t tried any other digital out. I switched to analog out using the built in DAC and haven’t had a problem.

 

[srkbear]

I noticed this when switching to Spotify (although not with Tidal or local DLNA/UPnP). To be honest, I thought it was a Spotify thing as it also happens with a couple of RopieeeXL and cast devices I have (defaults to the phone volume). I didn't notice it happened with an output change though, maybe I didn't switch outputs while listening to Spotify.

Thanks for pointing it out.

I tend to avoid denying what folks are hearing with their ears, especially since unlike the Zen Stream, the NS has its own DAC, and that’s a whole different ballgame when it comes to results.

However, if one is bypassing the internal DAC (as I am), the NS exists solely in the digital domain. Its only function is to transfer a digital audio stream to an external DAC with some metadata extracted on the way—and since that means ones and zeroes, it can’t have a sound. Also, network protocols have their own error checking solutions via TCP/IP, and packets either get sent, or they get rejected and sent back to be retransmitted—nothing is lost or gained in the process.

So in this one instance, there really is no way that a pure streamer, a pure network transport, can sound any different than any other. In the essentially impossible event that there were bits lost here or there, they would alter the reading frame—and the results would be heard as skips, glitches, or dropouts, not as any degradation in sound quality.

That’s why it is said that the only thing you need to get the best possible sound quality out of a streamer is a simple RPI, and the ZS/NS are both essentially exactly that—a Volumio-based microcomputer passing along a digital signal. They just save you the hassle of building your own, put it in a more premium-looking enclosure, add a hardware-based Roon Bridge on the motherboard, and add some reclocking tech tied to the inputs to minimize jitter. And in the case of the NS, they add a nice hardware GUI as well, and an internal DAC as an integrated package.

That’s also why there’s no headphone output. It doesn’t have any preamp stage, it’s purely a streamer/DAC. For a headphone jack they’d have had to add an additional amplifier, which would not only drive up the price, but it would change the whole purpose of the device.

That is also why both the ZS and the NS are such fantastic deals! Higher priced units are just about more complicated GUIs, DSPs, DACs, and in some case amps. As pure streamers they offer no audible advantages, and for those of us who already have DAC/amp solutions, they’re perfect—and they’re also without question the most fairly and honestly priced options of their kind on the market. I LOVE that iFi did this! No offense intended at all, and peace.

 

[rlw6534]

I tend to avoid denying what folks are hearing with their ears, especially since unlike the Zen Stream, the NS has its own DAC, and that’s a whole different ballgame when it comes to results.

However, if one is bypassing the internal DAC (as I am), the NS exists solely in the digital domain. Its only function is to transfer a digital audio stream to an external DAC with some metadata extracted on the way—and since that means ones and zeroes, it can’t have a sound. Also, network protocols have their own error checking solutions via TCP/IP, and packets either get sent, or they get rejected and sent back to be retransmitted—nothing is lost or gained in the process.

So in this one instance, there really is no way that a pure streamer, a pure network transport, can sound any different than any other. In the essentially impossible event that there were bits lost here or there, they would alter the reading frame—and the results would be heard as skips, glitches, or dropouts, not as any degradation in sound quality.

That’s why it is said that the only thing you need to get the best possible sound quality out of a streamer is a simple RPI, and the ZS/NS are both essentially exactly that—a Volumio-based microcomputer passing along a digital signal. They just save you the hassle of building your own, put it in a more premium-looking enclosure, add a hardware-based Roon Bridge on the motherboard, and add some reclocking tech tied to the inputs to minimize jitter. And in the case of the NS, they add a nice hardware GUI as well, and an internal DAC as an integrated package.

That’s also why there’s no headphone output. It doesn’t have any preamp stage, it’s purely a streamer/DAC. For a headphone jack they’d have had to add an additional amplifier, which would not only drive up the price, but it would change the whole purpose of the device.

That is also why both the ZS and the NS are such fantastic deals! Higher priced units are just about more complicated GUIs, DSPs, DACs, and in some case amps. As pure streamers they offer no audible advantages, and for those of us who already have DAC/amp solutions, they’re perfect—and they’re also without question the most fairly and honestly priced options of their kind on the market. I LOVE that iFi did this! No offense intended at all, and peace.

Although I agree with you in general, I would like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, USB audio and SPDIF audio are not error-correcting. Please feel free to do your own research on the standards. Thankfully, they are not particularly error prone, but it does happen.

 

[srkbear]

Although I agree with you in general, I would like to point out that, contrary to popular belief, USB audio and SPDIF audio are not error-correcting. Please feel free to do your own research on the standards. Thankfully, they are not particularly error prone, but it does happen.

Yes sure, but that has nothing to do with transporting a digital signal, as I’ll explain below.

iFi does indeed make claims that their USB and S/PDIF outputs have “ANC” and “anti-jitter” tech built in, for what that’s worth. So do the manufacturers of more exorbitantly priced streamers by the way, and all of their proprietary methods are kept consistently vague.

But none of this matters in terms of the end result. Jitter and error correcting are germane to the digital to analog conversion process, not to a connection from a network transport device to an input receiver. And all modern DACs, even the cheapest these days, have buffers that obviate timing errors in DAC inputs. Also, in the case of asynchronous USB, the DAC’s clock is the master anyway, so it’s the quality of the DAC’s input receiver that determines timing, not the streamer.

Finally, errors in a digital file do not translate to frequency response changes, bass slam, warmth, or any such analog terms. If they were significant enough in quantity they would lead to quanitization errors that would result in noise—although surely any such streamer producing enough errors to be audible would have to be considered broken or defective.

As I said before, any significant glitches at this digital stage would likely be heard as dropouts or other interruptions to the signal path. They wouldn’t drop a veil.

Anyway, this isn’t really something I care to wage a war about. I assume you’re an owner of the Neo Stream, as I am, and I’m just here to pay the device a compliment. It does its job very nicely, and for my purposes as a pure streamer it’s perfect. I still wish iFi had released a second generation Zen Stream that accommodated DSD512 or PCM768, since I paid for a superfluous DAC I won’t use. But compared to the insulting price points of its competitors, who make fantastical claims that defy science, I still consider it the best deal on the market in its category!

Again, no offense intended on my end here at all. Enjoy your music!

 

[rlw6534]

Yes sure, but that has nothing to do with transporting a digital signal, as I’ll explain below.

iFi does indeed make claims that their USB and S/PDIF outputs have “ANC” and “anti-jitter” tech built in, for what that’s worth. So do the manufacturers of more exorbitantly priced streamers by the way, and all of their proprietary methods are kept consistently vague.

But none of this matters in terms of the end result. Jitter and error correcting is germane to the digital to analog conversion process, not to a connection from a network transport device to an input receiver. And all modern DACs, even the cheapest these days, have buffers that obviate timing errors in DAC inputs. Also, in the case of asynchronous USB, the DAC’s clock is the master anyway, so it’s the quality of the DAC’s input receiver that determines timing, not the streamer.

Finally, errors in a digital file do not translate to frequency response changes, bass slam, warmth, or any such analog terms. If they were significant enough in quantity they would lead to quanitization errors that would result in noise—although surely any such streamer producing enough errors to be audible would have to be considered broken or defective.

As I said before, any significant glitches at this digital stage would likely be heard as dropouts or other interruptions to the signal path. They wouldn’t drop a veil.

Anyway, this isn’t really something I care to wage a war about. I assume you’re an owner of the Neo Stream, as I am, and I’m just here to pay the device a compliment. It does its job very nicely, and for my purposes as a pure streamer its perfect. I still wish iFi had released a second generation Zen Stream that accommodated DSD512 or PCM768, since I paid for a superfluous DAC I won’t use. But compared to the insulting price points of its competitors, who make fantastical claims that defy science, I still consider it the best deal on the market in its category!

Again, no offense intended on my end here at all. Enjoy your music!

It's all good, absolutely no offense meant (or taken) and I agree with your statements. Just pointing out a common misconception.

 

[Kamil21]

Here is a new You Tube review from a boomer who can hear a difference!

 

[stoicar]

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Hey all, quite a bit to read since I have been gone! Back home and hoping to have a bit of side-by-side NEO vs. Zen comparisons up by the end of the weekend.

It's good to be back home and listening to music in a decent setting again, two days into my stay my Gryphon (STB) will not charge, so if I listened to anything while I was in it was Bluetooth earbuds, so the torture part is over,

Time to regroup and start it up!

Hoping everyone is well, and...

Cheers!!

 

[ctrlm]

Hey all, quite a bit to read since I have been gone! Back home and hoping to have a bit of side-by-side NEO vs. Zen comparisons up by the end of the weekend.

It's good to be back home and listening to music in a decent setting again, two days into my stay my Gryphon (STB) will not charge, so if I listened to anything while I was in it was Bluetooth earbuds, so the torture part is over,

Time to regroup and start it up!

Hoping everyone is well, and...

Cheers!!

Good to see you back and well soldier

 

[gryffe]

Hi, I bought the Neo Stream yesterday

Set it up yesterday afternoon and have tinkered with it for an hour or two and hoping to get some answers that might give me some quick wins.
I have Roon, and I have subscriptions for Qobuz, Tidal (trial), Audirvana (trial) and Apple Music. What I am finding so far is that Roon is seamless, and I can connect to Qobuz and Tidal apps on there and play back music no problem. I am playing back from a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/pre amp using USB connected to the Neo streamer. However when I want to switch away from Roon and use Audirvana via the DLNA setting on the Neo I don't get any sound unless I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or the Neo streamer first. Any idea how to overcome this as it is a bit annoying, I dont want to have to reboot pieces of hifi kit any time I want to switch between music services, and anyway this has never been a problem with other streamers I have used in the past. Another issue is that I can only get sound if I use the USB output between the DAC/preamp and the Neo, if I switch to SP/DIF Coaxial cable I don't get any sound even if I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or Neo Streamer. I am pretty confident that this is a problem related to the Neo, because when I use the same Coaxial cable to play back music from my CD player I can get sound no problem, and the CD player is connected by Coaxial to the same DAC/preamp that I am using with the Neo.

Hopefully these aren't schoolboy errors Grateful for any help. Thanks.

 

[SenyorC]

Hi, I bought the Neo Stream yesterday

Set it up yesterday afternoon and have tinkered with it for an hour or two and hoping to get some answers that might give me some quick wins.
I have Roon, and I have subscriptions for Qobuz, Tidal (trial), Audirvana (trial) and Apple Music. What I am finding so far is that Roon is seamless, and I can connect to Qobuz and Tidal apps on there and play back music no problem. I am playing back from a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/pre amp using USB connected to the Neo streamer. However when I want to switch away from Roon and use Audirvana via the DLNA setting on the Neo I don't get any sound unless I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or the Neo streamer first. Any idea how to overcome this as it is a bit annoying, I dont want to have to reboot pieces of hifi kit any time I want to switch between music services, and anyway this has never been a problem with other streamers I have used in the past. Another issue is that I can only get sound if I use the USB output between the DAC/preamp and the Neo, if I switch to SP/DIF Coaxial cable I don't get any sound even if I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or Neo Streamer. I am pretty confident that this is a problem related to the Neo, because when I use the same Coaxial cable to play back music from my CD player I can get sound no problem, and the CD player is connected by Coaxial to the same DAC/preamp that I am using with the Neo.

Hopefully these aren't schoolboy errors Grateful for any help. Thanks.

In the setting menu, you can choose USB, Digital (Coax, Optical, AES etc.) or Analog outputs. They are not all active at once.

Regarding the Roon/DLNA issue. I can't really comment as I haven't used Roon with the NS but what mode do you have the NS set to in the menu (AiO, Roon, etc)?

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Hi, I bought the Neo Stream yesterday

Set it up yesterday afternoon and have tinkered with it for an hour or two and hoping to get some answers that might give me some quick wins.
I have Roon, and I have subscriptions for Qobuz, Tidal (trial), Audirvana (trial) and Apple Music. What I am finding so far is that Roon is seamless, and I can connect to Qobuz and Tidal apps on there and play back music no problem. I am playing back from a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/pre amp using USB connected to the Neo streamer. However when I want to switch away from Roon and use Audirvana via the DLNA setting on the Neo I don't get any sound unless I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or the Neo streamer first. Any idea how to overcome this as it is a bit annoying, I dont want to have to reboot pieces of hifi kit any time I want to switch between music services, and anyway this has never been a problem with other streamers I have used in the past. Another issue is that I can only get sound if I use the USB output between the DAC/preamp and the Neo, if I switch to SP/DIF Coaxial cable I don't get any sound even if I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or Neo Streamer. I am pretty confident that this is a problem related to the Neo, because when I use the same Coaxial cable to play back music from my CD player I can get sound no problem, and the CD player is connected by Coaxial to the same DAC/preamp that I am using with the Neo.

Hopefully these aren't schoolboy errors Grateful for any help. Thanks.

With regard to not getting sound from the SPDIF output I have a problem with the Zen Stream (don't own a Neo) that may explain what you're experiencing. First of all, you need to select the SPDIF output in Roon Audio Settings. It doesn't do this on its own. Then, every time I power cycle the Zen Stream, I have to go back to the Roon settings and save the SPDIF option again, even though it already shows SPDIF as the output. I won't get any sound without doing this. No such thing happens with the USB connection and this is what I use now. This has been brought up in Zen Stream forums, without any solution thus far. Maybe it's a different issue with the Neo. Hope it helps.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Hi, I bought the Neo Stream yesterday

Set it up yesterday afternoon and have tinkered with it for an hour or two and hoping to get some answers that might give me some quick wins.
I have Roon, and I have subscriptions for Qobuz, Tidal (trial), Audirvana (trial) and Apple Music. What I am finding so far is that Roon is seamless, and I can connect to Qobuz and Tidal apps on there and play back music no problem. I am playing back from a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/pre amp using USB connected to the Neo streamer. However when I want to switch away from Roon and use Audirvana via the DLNA setting on the Neo I don't get any sound unless I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or the Neo streamer first. Any idea how to overcome this as it is a bit annoying, I dont want to have to reboot pieces of hifi kit any time I want to switch between music services, and anyway this has never been a problem with other streamers I have used in the past. Another issue is that I can only get sound if I use the USB output between the DAC/preamp and the Neo, if I switch to SP/DIF Coaxial cable I don't get any sound even if I switch off/on the DAC/preamp and/or Neo Streamer. I am pretty confident that this is a problem related to the Neo, because when I use the same Coaxial cable to play back music from my CD player I can get sound no problem, and the CD player is connected by Coaxial to the same DAC/preamp that I am using with the Neo.

Hopefully these aren't schoolboy errors Grateful for any help. Thanks.

In the setting menu, you can choose USB, Digital (Coax, Optical, AES etc.) or Analog outputs. They are not all active at once.

Regarding the Roon/DLNA issue. I can't really comment as I haven't used Roon with the NS but what mode do you have the NS set to in the menu (AiO, Roon, etc)?

With regard to not getting sound from the SPDIF output I have a problem with the Zen Stream (don't own a Neo) that may explain what you're experiencing. First of all, you need to select the SPDIF output in Roon Audio Settings. It doesn't do this on its own. Then, every time I power cycle the Zen Stream, I have to go back to the Roon settings and save the SPDIF option again, even though it already shows SPDIF as the output. I won't get any sound without doing this. No such thing happens with the USB connection and this is what I use now. This has been brought up in Zen Stream forums, without any solution thus far. Maybe it's a different issue with the Neo. Hope it helps.

Just some visuals for you, you must choose the output mode as others have said.

In Roon under settings/audio look for the device then click Device Info

When you do this will appear

Click on configure device and another browser window will open for you to make your configuration choices.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!!

 

[gryffe]

In the setting menu, you can choose USB, Digital (Coax, Optical, AES etc.) or Analog outputs. They are not all active at once.

Regarding the Roon/DLNA issue. I can't really comment as I haven't used Roon with the NS but what mode do you have the NS set to in the menu (AiO, Roon, etc)?

Hi @SenyorC , thanks for your reply. The setting on the Neo for USB was actually called Mytek Brooklyn, which is the name of my DAC/Preamp -the software must have detected this was a USB connected unit and named it accordingly I guess. So I changed the setting from USB to Digital on the menu. I then changed the source setting from Roon to DLNA on the NEO to allow me to playback from Audirvana. Lastly I then changed the setting from USB to Opti on my DAC/preamp to allow Coax playback but still no sound. I powered OFF/ON both the DAC/preamp and Neo but still no sound from Digital.

@Vitor Goncalves, thank you for your reply also. From my reply to SenyorC above you will see that it is not only an issue with Roon regarding SPDIF playback as I am experiencing it on Audirvana as well. I thought I would attempt to check the setting on Roon anyway, but I cannot see where abouts in Roon Audio Settings you can select SPDIF - can you please direct me to where the setting is, thanks?

Finally, do you guys know if an IFI representative checks in on this forum and offers assistance, suggestions etc because I have a few things I'd like to clear up with them?

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

Hi @SenyorC , thanks for your reply. The setting on the Neo for USB was actually called Mytek Brooklyn, which is the name of my DAC/Preamp -the software must have detected this was a USB connected unit and named it accordingly I guess. So I changed the setting from USB to Digital on the menu. I then changed the source setting from Roon to DLNA on the NEO to allow me to playback from Audirvana. Lastly I then changed the setting from USB to Opti on my DAC/preamp to allow Coax playback but still no sound. I powered OFF/ON both the DAC/preamp and Neo but still no sound from Digital.

@Vitor Goncalves, thank you for your reply also. From my reply to SenyorC above you will see that it is not only an issue with Roon regarding SPDIF playback as I am experiencing it on Audirvana as well. I thought I would attempt to check the setting on Roon anyway, but I cannot see where abouts in Roon Audio Settings you can select SPDIF - can you please direct me to where the setting is, thanks?

Finally, do you guys know if an IFI representative checks in on this forum and offers assistance, suggestions etc because I have a few things I'd like to clear up with them?

The whereabouts are in the previous post by Mr BubbaHyde, with pictures