iFi audio iDSD Signature - The saga continues!

Jul 3, 2021 at 9:56 AM Post #1,471 of 2,390
My new toy has arrived! I've been waiting for something to replace my Chord Mojo as a desktop and transportable DAC/amp.
Initial impressions (with less than 5 hours of burn-in) are very good. The color looks great. The build quality is excellent and feels very solid. I like having an physical round volume knob (the Mojo has buttons), but I do miss the perfect channel balance even at the lowest volume range.

With the Focal Elear (80 ohms, 104 dB / 1 mW @ 1 kHz), I was able to get to a normal listening volume at 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock on the volume knob. Power at Normal and IEMatch at Ultra Sensitive.
With the Sennheiser IE 900 (16 ohms, 123 dB / 1kHz 1Vrms), normal listening volume is at 11 o'clock to 12 o'clock. Power at Eco and IEMatch at Ultra Sensitive.
Are these Power and IEMatch settings ok? Any recommendations? On my unit, channel imbalance happens at around 10-10.5 o'clock or below.

Questions:
- What's the best firmware to use for PCM (I want to maintain the Bit Perfect filter and don't plan to use DSD or MQA), 7.2 or 7.2b?
- Does the 10W iPad charger provide enough power? Its output is 5.1V, 2.1A.
- What's the recommended burn-in time?
Congrats on your new toy. I also have stuff similar to yours (Chord Mojo and ie800s), HD600, SRH1840, Hifiman Sundara. Here are my recommendations:

1. FW 7.2 (or 5.2 for older units) allows up to 768 kHz sampling music. You may either choose to upsample your music to 352/384 kHz or 704/768 kHz to bypass ifi filter with Bit Perfect on or upsample to 176/192 kHz before feeding the dac to try the offer of 8x internal oversampling of the dac chip with Minimum Phase on. If you do not want to upsample your music, just let the Bit Perfect on.

2. The recommended charger is 5V 1.5 A. It is mentioned somewhere that the 5V2A is fine. I use either 5V 1.55 A (Samsung) or 5V 2A (motorola).

3. Burn in time: I do not believe in some hundred hours of burning time that some other brands mentioned. IMHO, after one week of burning, four hours each day, the device is ready to offer its best. It's the time for capacitors and circuitry get exercises and have a stable state.

4. Channel imbalance:
I always have the High sensitivity on and never touch the Ultra High.

For iem like ie800s/k3003/mdrex1k: with High Sensitive Switch + Economic on: the imbalace gone at early 9:30. My listening level is around 12:00 for New Age genre.

For all headphones: Turbo mode is on, High Sensitivity on/off. I normally let it on so that my comfortable volume is still around 12.

Sometimes when you pause the music app for so long and replay, you may hear a bit weird loud imbalance on the left, this is when the app needs restarted (no need to turn off the idsd).

Cheers.
 
Jul 3, 2021 at 12:37 PM Post #1,472 of 2,390
Appreciate your thoughtful responses. I can assure you that although this was my first post here (which was in no way intended to sound officious to established users), it is not my first foray into audiophile forums, and I’ve been a frequent visitor to head-fi as an authoritative resource for many moons.

I think you made many level-headed and reasonable points. But isn’t the Diablo another example of the point I attempted to make about iFi’s lack of focus in their product development? It is yet another piece of hardware that just seemed gratuitous to me—it looks like yet another retread of the micro idsd line, this time in fancy red, yet bizarrely stripped off all the features! I guess it was intended to be a no-nonsense, “purist” option—but given it’s emergence a little over a year after the Signature was launched, I failed to see what it added, other than perhaps a bit more power. And again, it seems like another piece of clutter in the iFi lineup that is missing a frustrating, essential deal-breaker—in this case any post signal processing.

Like pretty much all of the iFi offerings EXCEPT the Hip Dac, I can’t seem to identity its intended target niche. What was wrong with the XBass feature that warranted a refresh of the micro idsd line without it? Who was clamoring for what is essentially a micro idsd signature minus the XBass or 3D, in a flashier, rounded-corners, Lamborghini-esque, cherry red finish? What is aspirational among their product launches over the past several years to make one want to upgrade, if they’re going to lose something one liked about a predecessor (especially at these price points)?

And although I understand your measured point about personal listening preferences and performance over specs, the truth is that there is a psychology to knowing what’s under the hood of audiophile products—in fact I would argue that the entire audiophile market is in many ways driven by an obsession for the best possible components and a pride in knowledge of how stuff works, arguably at priority over nuances in sound. This site is filled with long-form essays on physics and esoteric frequency response curves and minutia—does that mean that the majority of us could actually discern differences between dual AKM 4499s and a pair of ESS9038 Pros? I can’t say for sure—but I know enough folks care enough about specs to fill the web with endless didactics on these subjects and more.

My point remains that the excitement that informs allegiance to a specific electronics manufacturer comes from anticipating how they build on the technologies that made you a fan to begin with. I upgraded my micro idsd black label to the xDSD for the new Bluetooth feature and a balanced output (the latter of which, no offense to your experiences, has been clearly established to improve audio fidelity, increase useable power, decrease cross talk and lower the noise floor considerably, as is evident in the emerging pentacom 4.4mm reference standard). After a meh experience with Bluetooth audio, I upgraded my xDSD to the micro iDSD signature, excited about the opportunity to recapture the power of the micro idsd line, now equipped with a 4.4mm balanced output.

Then I learn that the 4.4mm output, unlike their $149 Hip Dac, is actually single ended, and also unlike the far cheaper Hip Dac, hasn’t resolved the channel imbalance of its predecessors, which folks have complained about for years? Come on, guy, these sloppy oversights simply make no sense. The Hip Dac makes perfect sense for the affordable market it serves—and it has features that iFi’s flagship products omit, for reasons only iFi seems to know.

So if you’ve actually taken the time to read this far, I will summarize by maintaining that unless one wants to forgo any portability and is willing to shell out three grand for the Pro iDSD 4.4mm option, iFi has to this day failed to produce a mid-range, transportable Dac, intended primarily for headphone use, that doesn’t have a fatal flaw—despite littering the market with many gratuitous nice-try’s year after year. And I’m taking the time to blather on about this because I keep waiting for them to do just that—I’m a fan!
I disagree about balanced bringing increased audio fidelity in an amp / dac combo. All it does is increase power output and that may even be detrimental in some cases. I wasn’t able to listen at comfortable volumes with my Focal Stellia on the Diablo for example. They’re too sensitive.
You mentioned the psychology of knowing what’s “under the hood” and I think that’s where the bulk of your problem lies. Well, that and perhaps not properly researching before a purchase.
Since we’re doing car analogies, I’ll summarize with this. Don’t hate on the Ferrari in your driveway for not having enough storage space.

DC3E8535-8E5A-41E4-9BD3-778E7E5F0207.jpeg

F17A21DF-F26F-42AF-8613-A7A8A7DD0B68.jpeg


A7DF4115-AE01-4D94-89F8-D15B83A163E3.jpeg

87AA3128-5D78-4F3F-9DB6-0B62E10E464F.jpeg

5EDB993B-1F6F-4B85-A74C-337C52BB59BA.jpeg

:darthsmile:
Drive it and enjoy.

I’m obviously a big fan of the one I own and listening as I type this. Very happy with the way it sounds and won’t replace unless it gets lost or stops working. Actually, now that I’m using apple’s lossless service, I’m getting real bit perfect from iPad OS. Signature is end game for portable (ish) dac/ amp IMO. If I wanted something smaller I would just go with a Dap but I don’t really feel the need. Clunky android OS aside, I don’t want to walk around public with big expensive cans over my ears.
Is the Signature for everyone? Guess not. As my Jamaican friend says “Every bread have it’s cheese”. Find your cheese!

526FF0F7-6747-43D6-A491-3B8447646B3E.jpeg


Getting renovations done to the house and can’t be in my office, on my desktop rig. No matter, still having a blast :L3000:
Chibs
 
Last edited:
Jul 3, 2021 at 9:55 PM Post #1,473 of 2,390
Congrats on your new toy. I also have stuff similar to yours (Chord Mojo and ie800s), HD600, SRH1840, Hifiman Sundara. Here are my recommendations:

1. FW 7.2 (or 5.2 for older units) allows up to 768 kHz sampling music. You may either choose to upsample your music to 352/384 kHz or 704/768 kHz to bypass ifi filter with Bit Perfect on or upsample to 176/192 kHz before feeding the dac to try the offer of 8x internal oversampling of the dac chip with Minimum Phase on. If you do not want to upsample your music, just let the Bit Perfect on.

2. The recommended charger is 5V 1.5 A. It is mentioned somewhere that the 5V2A is fine. I use either 5V 1.55 A (Samsung) or 5V 2A (motorola).

3. Burn in time: I do not believe in some hundred hours of burning time that some other brands mentioned. IMHO, after one week of burning, four hours each day, the device is ready to offer its best. It's the time for capacitors and circuitry get exercises and have a stable state.

4. Channel imbalance:
I always have the High sensitivity on and never touch the Ultra High.

For iem like ie800s/k3003/mdrex1k: with High Sensitive Switch + Economic on: the imbalace gone at early 9:30. My listening level is around 12:00 for New Age genre.

For all headphones: Turbo mode is on, High Sensitivity on/off. I normally let it on so that my comfortable volume is still around 12.

Sometimes when you pause the music app for so long and replay, you may hear a bit weird loud imbalance on the left, this is when the app needs restarted (no need to turn off the idsd).

Cheers.
Thank you for the recommendations! :)

I normally don't like upsampling, but will give it a try. I think JRiver's upsampling is pretty good.

I currently have firmware 7.2b, thinking newer is probably better :smile: I'll try 7.2.

You're using Turbo power for full size headphones? I think my Focal Elear is too sensitive for that. With Turbo power and High sensitivity, the volume is too loud even at 10 o'clock on the knob. With Ultra Sensitivity, the knob barely gets above channel imbalance at my normal listening volume. I think I will have to stick to Normal power and use High or Ultra Sensitivity depending on source material (music/TV/movie).
 
Jul 4, 2021 at 2:18 AM Post #1,474 of 2,390
Is higher power mode recommended more than lower one, even though you have to select higher iematch sensitivity?
I can drive my Focal Stellia in either eco mode or normal (at max sensitivity).

Thanks
 
Jul 5, 2021 at 11:35 AM Post #1,476 of 2,390
Is higher power mode recommended more than lower one, even though you have to select higher iematch sensitivity?
I can drive my Focal Stellia in either eco mode or normal (at max sensitivity).

Thanks


It really depends on you and your preferences. We don't have an official recommendation on our end. Do what sounds best to you!

Great comparison between the Diablo / signature / Black.



Great review by Golden indeed!
 
Jul 5, 2021 at 9:05 PM Post #1,477 of 2,390
But isn’t the Diablo another example of the point I attempted to make about iFi’s lack of focus in their product development? It is yet another piece of hardware that just seemed gratuitous to me—it looks like yet another retread of the micro idsd line, this time in fancy red, yet bizarrely stripped off all the features! I guess it was intended to be a no-nonsense, “purist” option—but given it’s emergence a little over a year after the Signature was launched, I failed to see what it added, other than perhaps a bit more power. And again, it seems like another piece of clutter in the iFi lineup that is missing a frustrating, essential deal-breaker—in this case any post signal processing.

I own / have owned quite a lot of iFi products. I have a sweet spot in my heart for their products. But that brings with it some well-meaning criticism as well. Allow me to rant on a little about this, as you've touched upon in your post, I sense you've perceived one of the problems iFi has had for some time now, which gets progressively worse as time goes by. They have painted themselves into a corner with the way they have chosen to go about designing their product line(s). It comes from this dogmatic belief that someone high up in the company once had about "The best DAC chips of all time" and "What sounds the best to everyone, according to me" philosophy that they seemingly based a company around. And they have stuck to this like a fly on honey to this day.

There is only so many things you can do design and product differentiation wise, if you've for whatever reason decided that this one DAC chip is the best sounding chip, and that's the one we're going to use, in every single product, vertically and horizontally. So your left with what we see in iFi today.
You can put more chips in. 2x Dual core and 4x "Custom interleaved configuration", because more is better, right? Sure it is, if done right, but only a little. And of course differentiate by features. I'm sure many of us have wondered why iFi just doesn't just build "The Definitive iDSD", like the actual product that would kill the competition in the price segment, the logical progression of the iDSD line and the definitive upgrade for all previous model users.

Well because such a device would make a large portion of their line-up completely irrelevant! If they were to release a "iFi Opti iDSD Definitive edition". Complete with fully differential internal topology, 4,4 mm differential output, 6.3 mm single ended and 3,5 mm S-Balanced headphone outputs. Balanced 4,4 mm line out, 3,5 mm analog input, xBass, 3D, switch for the internal filters, high quality custom designed filters running off custom iFi firmware on the 16 core xMos, NOS mode, iFi's Bluetooth implementation. iPurifier tech on all digital inputs. Full MQA decoder. I mean, that's it right there, that is -The product-. But that's not what we got. Because that product would kill off iFis lineup. Why would you want anything else they have? (Maybe the Pro iDSD)

Instead, we got this stripped down black label (optimized internal layout in marketing speak) "Signature edition" with a 4,4 mm just sort of glued on there "for convenience sake" they said. And also, no you can't have analog input this time and no you can't use our features (xbass, 3D) on the pre-amp either. No Bluetooth. But the price goes up.
Some of us thought "Huh, this is kind of strange... but this is "The Signature" after all so it's gotta be good, it's gotta be The Thing!"
And Nope. Not. The Diablo drops, and now we understand why the The Signature is the way it is, all those features were going to the Diablo. Again because product segmentation on the balanced / differential aspect. Totally stripped of features this time. More power/balanced. No Bluetooth this time either. Price goes up.

They can't put BT in because that would kill the xDSD, analog inputs would kill the xCAN. And of course, look at the iDSD line up we have. Why so many, what differentiates one to the next? Not a whole lot, that makes any sense, other than trying so hard to differentiate their products. Instead of having a genuine soild product worthy of iFis innovative brand name and "Signature" stamp, we get a split, a fractured set of iDSDs , each incomplete in a sense. Hollow and never reaching the full potential of the line up. OR iFi will actually release such a product in the near future, and in the process be stepping on the toes of all of those who bought a previous model of iDSD, they now own an even worse model than they had before. And if they actually do upgrade to this new ultimate iFi platinum eternal edition, what says that they won't get screwed over again because a next version is coming around the corner? Customers like new products. But not like this. We like actually new producs.

This is sort of the issue. Where to go from here? 3x Core DSD1793 gold label DAP? The competition is killing it with complete packages that has everything you'd ever need in one box plus some more on top! And they're actually objectively speaking way ahead in almost every parameter you can imagine. And they give the customer the choice to decide for themselves what they think sounds the best! They're the ones who are going to live with and listen to it after all. Varying different topologies and DAC chips to choose from.
But iFi are entrenched in this dogmatic belief around this one old chip, that they have decided for all their customers what chip sounds the best. In someone who workes / worked at iFis subjective opinion, this is The Best Sound Quality. Period. Your personal taste is a non-factor. No matter it happens to be, all things considered, a relatively old outdated and cheap chip, that's why it is cheap you know. The market has decided that it is not worth more at this point in time relative to the competing products. But it has an almost mystical backstory behind it (this chip has more marketing fluff surrounding it than anything I've seen. Imagine the same level of marketing effort but insert the ES9010K2M there instead, how weird would that be?) of being made in this Burr Brown factory in Japan in a far away time, where the skilled japanese burr brown masters made The Best Sounding Chip, before the evil big Texas Instruments corporation, came and bought up Burr Brown and subsequently took their designs and iterated on them and made improvements to the design. iFi would have you believe that TI actually made the chip worse(!) for every iteration TI made, sort of against all common sense logic and objective proof of the opposite.

Why won't we as customers get a chance or the choice of listening to a, say DSD1796 design (that chip is not that much more expensive actually, so it's also kind of cheap.) or a DSD1794 design? That one has way better performance and would even be somewhat competitive in todays landscape! They all have the same basic architecture, just iterated and improved upon over time. Well because they don't sound as good of course. How do we know that? We don't, but iFi said so. So that seems to be good enough for some people for some reason unknown to me. I'm not saying put AK4499s in everything and follow the herd and loose your identity and all the previous marketing work you've done around all of it. I'm just saying like... guys, just open your mind a little tiny bit and expand your perspective and at least think about upgrading in the same line of DAC chips, at least?(!) Or use the savings you get by using the cheaper chip and put in a better interpolator chip before the dac? or something? Your products suffer and so does your image and it only is going to get worse over time, It's already showing its ugly effects. I'm aware you don't or doesn't want to see it but, It'll just be so painfully obvious at some point in the near future. You already have idiots ranting about this on the forums (you know, like me), so obviously something ugly is starting to show.

Ok rant over. I hope I made some sort of sense in these ramblings. Way too much text I know, sorry :P

I'm new here, I don't know how to remove this quote I don't want to include anymore, lol ^^
Edit: Ok never mind, It disappeared! :O

Hi mate, I appreciate your feedback and believe in what you wrote. It is very interesting that we, the “new” Head-fier may somehow share the same way in researching, testing, experimenting and enjoying our music after thousands of listening hours with many different devices. From what you shared, I think that we both follow the way of logical approach for our hobbies.

I changed filters to listen to my music again and found that I still preferred GTO filter. Therefore, I once again had a new assumption and then did another experiment last night. The Xmos memory may have some kinds of recording the very last state of the filter switch at the time we upgrade the firmware. As long as I like the Minimum Phase with music upsampled by NeutronMP more than the bit perfect with NOS before feeding the DAC, at the time of upgrading, the filter switch is always on Mimimum Phase. For many others, they tend to keep the filter switch on Bit Perfect as recommended by iFI when upgrading.

I tried to upgrade my Signature to the GTO filter when the filter switch is on Bit Perfect. I thought that was the strange sound people mentioned. Later upgrading to FW5.3c when the filter switch was on Minimum Phase, that was the sound I like and much different from the former one. For me, GTO + Minimum Phase on (both pre and post upgrading time) is most preferred.

Once again, maybe placebo effects or just my personal preference. But I really like what I listen and what you shares. That’s what we call practical experiences. Happy listening!😀

The xmos does not save any last filter switch positions. The onboard linear phase filters reside on the DAC chip itself. The xmos firmware gets replaced and the GTO-filter assumes all of the interpolation duties for the entire unit. The DSD1793 is put into filter bypass mode rendering the switches inert. I assume the bit perfect filter is also "thrown out" to make space on the xmos for the GTO-filter.

With the GTO-firmware installed. From there on, any perceived differences you hear by flipping the filter switch position, you are simply listening to your own "brain ghosts" so to speak. It's not that you don't hear differences. You actually do, hear differences. The thing is that they are not real, they are an "auditory illusion". That's how it works. We are able to check for these, and then they disappear, revealing the truth.

A visual example was easier for me to understand when I learned all this, the visual illusion with the black squares, the white lines and the "black dots", you know? It's not that I don't see the black dots between the squares. I see them, they are there for sure. I could sit here for days moving my eye position, changing the patterns, convincing myself the dots are stronger and better aligned in this way, and bigger if I squint my eyes. But, we are forgetting the fact that the black dots are not actually there. They are a visual illusion. Any perceived differences I saw are... completely inconsequential, because they weren't actually there.

Although, I couldn't quite make it out from your post, but It is possible you've heard something actually different. But not by the switches. The GTO-filter only upsamples incoming data to a maximum of 384 kHz. Anything at that rate (or 352 kHz) would bypass the GTO-filter and go straight to the delta sigma modulator and ICOB for conversion. In such a case, the particular software used and that interpolation filter would have left its sonic signature on the data. In this case it is possible you'd actually have better dynamic range and noise performance due to also bypassing the GTO-firmwares down dithering.

Without the GTO-filter, the same would happen with sending 352 / 384 kHz data.
But, if sending a maximum of 192 kHz, the DSD1793 will interpolate this data 8x up to a maximum of 1536 kHz before sending it to the conversion stage. Resulting in a lot less distortion at the output.

These kinds of things can make for an audible difference, regardless of filter switch positions.
 
Last edited:
Jul 5, 2021 at 10:51 PM Post #1,478 of 2,390
I own / have owned quite a lot of iFi products. I have a sweet spot in my heart for their products. But that brings with it some well-meaning criticism as well. Allow me to rant on a little about this, as you've touched upon in your post, I sense you've perceived one of the problems iFi has had for some time now, which gets progressively worse as time goes by. They have painted themselves into a corner with the way they have chosen to go about designing their product line(s). It comes from this dogmatic belief that someone high up in the company once had about "The best DAC chips of all time" and "What sounds the best to everyone, according to me" philosophy that they seemingly based a company around. And they have stuck to this like a fly on honey to this day.

There is only so many things you can do design and product differentiation wise, if you've for whatever reason decided that this one DAC chip is the best sounding chip, and that's the one we're going to use, in every single product, vertically and horizontally. So your left with what we see in iFi today.
You can put more chips in. 2x Dual core and 4x "Custom interleaved configuration", because more is better, right? Sure it is, if done right, but only a little. And of course differentiate by features. I'm sure many of us have wondered why iFi just doesn't just build "The Definitive iDSD", like the actual product that would kill the competition in the price segment, the logical progression of the iDSD line and the definitive upgrade for all previous model users.

Well because such a device would make a large portion of their line-up completely irrelevant! If they were to release a "iFi Opti iDSD Definitive edition". Complete with fully differential internal topology, 4,4 mm differential output, 6.3 mm single ended and 3,5 mm S-Balanced headphone outputs. Balanced 4,4 mm line out, 3,5 mm analog input, xBass, 3D, switch for the internal filters, high quality custom designed filters running off custom iFi firmware on the 16 core xMos, NOS mode, iFi's Bluetooth implementation. iPurifier tech on all digital inputs. Full MQA decoder. I mean, that's it right there, that is -The product-. But that's not what we got. Because that product would kill off iFis lineup. Why would you want anything else they have? (Maybe the Pro iDSD)

Instead, we got this stripped down black label (optimized internal layout in marketing speak) "Signature edition" with a 4,4 mm just sort of glued on there "for convenience sake" they said. And also, no you can't have analog input this time and no you can't use our features (xbass, 3D) on the pre-amp either. No Bluetooth. But the price goes up.
Some of us thought "Huh, this is kind of strange... but this is "The Signature" after all so it's gotta be good, it's gotta be The Thing!"
And Nope. Not. The Diablo drops, and now we understand why the The Signature is the way it is, all those features were going to the Diablo. Again because product segmentation on the balanced / differential aspect. Totally stripped of features this time. More power/balanced. No Bluetooth this time either. Price goes up.

They can't put BT in because that would kill the xDSD, analog inputs would kill the xCAN. And of course, look at the iDSD line up we have. Why so many, what differentiates one to the next? Not a whole lot, that makes any sense, other than trying so hard to differentiate their products. Instead of having a genuine soild product worthy of iFis innovative brand name and "Signature" stamp, we get a split, a fractured set of iDSDs , each incomplete in a sense. Hollow and never reaching the full potential of the line up. OR iFi will actually release such a product in the near future, and in the process be stepping on the toes of all of those who bought a previous model of iDSD, they now own an even worse model than they had before. And if they actually do upgrade to this new ultimate iFi platinum eternal edition, what says that they won't get screwed over again because a next version is coming around the corner? Customers like new products. But not like this. We like actually new producs.

This is sort of the issue. Where to go from here? 3x Core DSD1793 gold label DAP? The competition is killing it with complete packages that has everything you'd ever need in one box plus some more on top! And they're actually objectively speaking way ahead in almost every parameter you can imagine. And they give the customer the choice to decide for themselves what they think sounds the best! They're the ones who are going to live with and listen to it after all. Varying different topologies and DAC chips to choose from.
But iFi are entrenched in this dogmatic belief around this one old chip, that they have decided for all their customers what chip sounds the best. In someone who workes / worked at iFis subjective opinion, this is The Best Sound Quality. Period. Your personal taste is a non-factor. No matter it happens to be, all things considered, a relatively old outdated and cheap chip, that's why it is cheap you know. The market has decided that it is not worth more at this point in time relative to the competing products. But it has an almost mystical backstory behind it (this chip has more marketing fluff surrounding it than anything I've seen. Imagine the same level of marketing effort but insert the ES9010K2M there instead, how weird would that be?) of being made in this Burr Brown factory in Japan in a far away time, where the skilled japanese burr brown masters made The Best Sounding Chip, before the evil big Texas Instruments corporation, came and bought up Burr Brown and subsequently took their designs and iterated on them and made improvements to the design. iFi would have you believe that TI actually made the chip worse(!) for every iteration TI made, sort of against all common sense logic and objective proof of the opposite.

Why won't we as customers get a chance or the choice of listening to a, say DSD1796 design (that chip is not that much more expensive actually, so it's also kind of cheap.) or a DSD1794 design? That one has way better performance and would even be somewhat competitive in todays landscape! They all have the same basic architecture, just iterated and improved upon over time. Well because they don't sound as good of course. How do we know that? We don't, but iFi said so. So that seems to be good enough for some people for some reason unknown to me. I'm not saying put AK4499s in everything and follow the herd and loose your identity and all the previous marketing work you've done around all of it. I'm just saying like... guys, just open your mind a little tiny bit and expand your perspective and at least think about upgrading in the same line of DAC chips, at least?(!) Or use the savings you get by using the cheaper chip and put in a better interpolator chip before the dac? or something? Your products suffer and so does your image and it only is going to get worse over time, It's already showing its ugly effects. I'm aware you don't or doesn't want to see it but, It'll just be so painfully obvious at some point in the near future. You already have idiots ranting about this on the forums (you know, like me), so obviously something ugly is starting to show.

Ok rant over. I hope I made some sort of sense in these ramblings. Way too much text I know, sorry :p


I'm new here, I don't know how to remove this quote I don't want to include anymore, lol ^^
Edit: Ok never mind, It disappeared! :O



The xmos does not save any last filter switch positions. The onboard linear phase filters reside on the DAC chip itself. The xmos firmware gets replaced and the GTO-filter assumes all of the interpolation duties for the entire unit. The DSD1793 is put into filter bypass mode rendering the switches inert. I assume the bit perfect filter is also "thrown out" to make space on the xmos for the GTO-filter.

With the GTO-firmware installed. From there on, any perceived differences you hear by flipping the filter switch position, you are simply listening to your own "brain ghosts" so to speak. It's not that you don't hear differences. You actually do, hear differences. The thing is that they are not real, they are an "auditory illusion". That's how it works. We are able to check for these, and then they disappear, revealing the truth.

A visual example was easier for me to understand when I learned all this, the visual illusion with the black squares, the white lines and the "black dots", you know? It's not that I don't see the black dots between the squares. I see them, they are there for sure. I could sit here for days moving my eye position, changing the patterns, convincing myself the dots are stronger and better aligned in this way, and bigger if I squint my eyes. But, we are forgetting the fact that the black dots are not actually there. They are a visual illusion. Any perceived differences I saw are... completely inconsequential, because they weren't actually there.

Although, I couldn't quite make it out from your post, but It is possible you've heard something actually different. But not by the switches. The GTO-filter only upsamples incoming data to a maximum of 384 kHz. Anything at that rate (or 352 kHz) would bypass the GTO-filter and go straight to the delta sigma modulator and ICOB for conversion. In such a case, the particular software used and that interpolation filter would have left its sonic signature on the data. In this case it is possible you'd actually have better dynamic range and noise performance due to also bypassing the GTO-firmwares down dithering.

Without the GTO-filter, the same would happen with sending 352 / 384 kHz data.
But, if sending a maximum of 192 kHz, the DSD1793 will interpolate this data 8x up to a maximum of 1536 kHz before sending it to the conversion stage. Resulting in a lot less distortion at the output.

These kinds of things can make for an audible difference, regardless of filter switch positions.
I read your entire post with great enthusiasm and interest (I think a little coda on the GTO filter got tacked on there somehow, so I’m referring to the text up to the point where you end your “little rant” ☺️).

And it is a rant, a BIG rant, and it echoes and expounds so elegantly on so much of what I attempted to convey in mine, so in return I say thank you and BRAVO. It was quite a refreshing read, after being gratuitously exposed without consent to the distasteful display of nouveau riche up there, with the tacky Ferrari show off and some bit of inscrutable nonsense about “finding my cheese”.

I never expected to be dragged into a man-toy contest on here, but I’ve quietly and modestly acquired an immense charcuterie of “cheeses” that have piled up in my closet over the years—including a bunch of Fiios (including the M15), an iBasso dx300, a couple of obsolete Astell & Kerns I have been meaning to get rid of for ages and just about all the iFi products mentioned thus far—so god only knows how I got branded a dear little audiophile neophyte, meekly holding up my shiny new Hip Dac I got under the Christmas Tree as a tragic plea for acceptance into the Hi-Fi Big Boy’s Club!

I’m not going to persist in defending the science and empirical evidence behind balanced headphone connections, nor will I acquiesce to the accusation that I’m naively entrenched in didactics and haven’t bothered to critically listen to the audiophile gear that I enjoy on a daily basis. I’m just going to emphasize your sage point that if iFi actually invested in the product that would satisfy the current state of DAC/AMP technology within the price range of their iDSD line, they would effectively render the remainder of their product inventory obsolete.

And isn’t that essentially just a circuitous way of saying that iFi’s entire portable DAC/AMP line (minus my unfairly belittled Hip Dac) is itself just obsolete, two-or-three-years-minimum obsolete, period, full-stop? After shucking off the latest gaslighting attempt above, I’m going to restore my instincts and allege that iFi just keeps cranking out the last decade’s offerings with a big “NEW!” sticker on the box—and I think that’s arguably an explanation for why they haven’t gotten a credible five star review for any new offering since the now-ancient micro iDSD Black Label (again, with the exception of my treasured little underestimated gem, the Hip Dac). They’ve played musical chairs with some jacks and features, but primarily they’ve just painted the damn thing—first in the previous decade’s de rigueur blue, then a rather cliched macho red for some reason (possibly as a form of hormone replacement therapy for the aging male, like the aforementioned Ferrari?).

Again, I wouldn’t waste my time or any of yours if I wasn’t a stalwart fan of iFi-Audio in the first place. I’m just chafing a bit from the disappointment of eagerly awaiting the next new thing from them, only to be let down by not only a retread of what I already have, but worse—a retread of what I already have minus features I grew fond of, while keeping inputs and specs that are no longer compatible with my other essential gear. I think they’ve rested on their laurels for far too long, and they’re starting to look like charlatans—it’s time for them to put out something worthy of the price they’re demanding. Peace.
 
Jul 6, 2021 at 2:14 AM Post #1,479 of 2,390
I own / have owned quite a lot of iFi products. I have a sweet spot in my heart for their products. But that brings with it some well-meaning criticism as well. Allow me to rant on a little about this, as you've touched upon in your post, I sense you've perceived one of the problems iFi has had for some time now, which gets progressively worse as time goes by. They have painted themselves into a corner with the way they have chosen to go about designing their product line(s). It comes from this dogmatic belief that someone high up in the company once had about "The best DAC chips of all time" and "What sounds the best to everyone, according to me" philosophy that they seemingly based a company around. And they have stuck to this like a fly on honey to this day.

There is only so many things you can do design and product differentiation wise, if you've for whatever reason decided that this one DAC chip is the best sounding chip, and that's the one we're going to use, in every single product, vertically and horizontally. So your left with what we see in iFi today.
You can put more chips in. 2x Dual core and 4x "Custom interleaved configuration", because more is better, right? Sure it is, if done right, but only a little. And of course differentiate by features. I'm sure many of us have wondered why iFi just doesn't just build "The Definitive iDSD", like the actual product that would kill the competition in the price segment, the logical progression of the iDSD line and the definitive upgrade for all previous model users.

Well because such a device would make a large portion of their line-up completely irrelevant! If they were to release a "iFi Opti iDSD Definitive edition". Complete with fully differential internal topology, 4,4 mm differential output, 6.3 mm single ended and 3,5 mm S-Balanced headphone outputs. Balanced 4,4 mm line out, 3,5 mm analog input, xBass, 3D, switch for the internal filters, high quality custom designed filters running off custom iFi firmware on the 16 core xMos, NOS mode, iFi's Bluetooth implementation. iPurifier tech on all digital inputs. Full MQA decoder. I mean, that's it right there, that is -The product-. But that's not what we got. Because that product would kill off iFis lineup. Why would you want anything else they have? (Maybe the Pro iDSD)

Instead, we got this stripped down black label (optimized internal layout in marketing speak) "Signature edition" with a 4,4 mm just sort of glued on there "for convenience sake" they said. And also, no you can't have analog input this time and no you can't use our features (xbass, 3D) on the pre-amp either. No Bluetooth. But the price goes up.
Some of us thought "Huh, this is kind of strange... but this is "The Signature" after all so it's gotta be good, it's gotta be The Thing!"
And Nope. Not. The Diablo drops, and now we understand why the The Signature is the way it is, all those features were going to the Diablo. Again because product segmentation on the balanced / differential aspect. Totally stripped of features this time. More power/balanced. No Bluetooth this time either. Price goes up.

They can't put BT in because that would kill the xDSD, analog inputs would kill the xCAN. And of course, look at the iDSD line up we have. Why so many, what differentiates one to the next? Not a whole lot, that makes any sense, other than trying so hard to differentiate their products. Instead of having a genuine soild product worthy of iFis innovative brand name and "Signature" stamp, we get a split, a fractured set of iDSDs , each incomplete in a sense. Hollow and never reaching the full potential of the line up. OR iFi will actually release such a product in the near future, and in the process be stepping on the toes of all of those who bought a previous model of iDSD, they now own an even worse model than they had before. And if they actually do upgrade to this new ultimate iFi platinum eternal edition, what says that they won't get screwed over again because a next version is coming around the corner? Customers like new products. But not like this. We like actually new producs.

This is sort of the issue. Where to go from here? 3x Core DSD1793 gold label DAP? The competition is killing it with complete packages that has everything you'd ever need in one box plus some more on top! And they're actually objectively speaking way ahead in almost every parameter you can imagine. And they give the customer the choice to decide for themselves what they think sounds the best! They're the ones who are going to live with and listen to it after all. Varying different topologies and DAC chips to choose from.
But iFi are entrenched in this dogmatic belief around this one old chip, that they have decided for all their customers what chip sounds the best. In someone who workes / worked at iFis subjective opinion, this is The Best Sound Quality. Period. Your personal taste is a non-factor. No matter it happens to be, all things considered, a relatively old outdated and cheap chip, that's why it is cheap you know. The market has decided that it is not worth more at this point in time relative to the competing products. But it has an almost mystical backstory behind it (this chip has more marketing fluff surrounding it than anything I've seen. Imagine the same level of marketing effort but insert the ES9010K2M there instead, how weird would that be?) of being made in this Burr Brown factory in Japan in a far away time, where the skilled japanese burr brown masters made The Best Sounding Chip, before the evil big Texas Instruments corporation, came and bought up Burr Brown and subsequently took their designs and iterated on them and made improvements to the design. iFi would have you believe that TI actually made the chip worse(!) for every iteration TI made, sort of against all common sense logic and objective proof of the opposite.

Why won't we as customers get a chance or the choice of listening to a, say DSD1796 design (that chip is not that much more expensive actually, so it's also kind of cheap.) or a DSD1794 design? That one has way better performance and would even be somewhat competitive in todays landscape! They all have the same basic architecture, just iterated and improved upon over time. Well because they don't sound as good of course. How do we know that? We don't, but iFi said so. So that seems to be good enough for some people for some reason unknown to me. I'm not saying put AK4499s in everything and follow the herd and loose your identity and all the previous marketing work you've done around all of it. I'm just saying like... guys, just open your mind a little tiny bit and expand your perspective and at least think about upgrading in the same line of DAC chips, at least?(!) Or use the savings you get by using the cheaper chip and put in a better interpolator chip before the dac? or something? Your products suffer and so does your image and it only is going to get worse over time, It's already showing its ugly effects. I'm aware you don't or doesn't want to see it but, It'll just be so painfully obvious at some point in the near future. You already have idiots ranting about this on the forums (you know, like me), so obviously something ugly is starting to show.

Ok rant over. I hope I made some sort of sense in these ramblings. Way too much text I know, sorry :p


I'm new here, I don't know how to remove this quote I don't want to include anymore, lol ^^
Edit: Ok never mind, It disappeared! :O



The xmos does not save any last filter switch positions. The onboard linear phase filters reside on the DAC chip itself. The xmos firmware gets replaced and the GTO-filter assumes all of the interpolation duties for the entire unit. The DSD1793 is put into filter bypass mode rendering the switches inert. I assume the bit perfect filter is also "thrown out" to make space on the xmos for the GTO-filter.

With the GTO-firmware installed. From there on, any perceived differences you hear by flipping the filter switch position, you are simply listening to your own "brain ghosts" so to speak. It's not that you don't hear differences. You actually do, hear differences. The thing is that they are not real, they are an "auditory illusion". That's how it works. We are able to check for these, and then they disappear, revealing the truth.

A visual example was easier for me to understand when I learned all this, the visual illusion with the black squares, the white lines and the "black dots", you know? It's not that I don't see the black dots between the squares. I see them, they are there for sure. I could sit here for days moving my eye position, changing the patterns, convincing myself the dots are stronger and better aligned in this way, and bigger if I squint my eyes. But, we are forgetting the fact that the black dots are not actually there. They are a visual illusion. Any perceived differences I saw are... completely inconsequential, because they weren't actually there.

Although, I couldn't quite make it out from your post, but It is possible you've heard something actually different. But not by the switches. The GTO-filter only upsamples incoming data to a maximum of 384 kHz. Anything at that rate (or 352 kHz) would bypass the GTO-filter and go straight to the delta sigma modulator and ICOB for conversion. In such a case, the particular software used and that interpolation filter would have left its sonic signature on the data. In this case it is possible you'd actually have better dynamic range and noise performance due to also bypassing the GTO-firmwares down dithering.

Without the GTO-filter, the same would happen with sending 352 / 384 kHz data.
But, if sending a maximum of 192 kHz, the DSD1793 will interpolate this data 8x up to a maximum of 1536 kHz before sending it to the conversion stage. Resulting in a lot less distortion at the output.

These kinds of things can make for an audible difference, regardless of filter switch positions.
Very thoughtful, logical, persuasive and much emotional post. I like and appreciate that. Thanks mate.
 
Jul 6, 2021 at 2:52 AM Post #1,480 of 2,390
@24bit Garbage , @srkbear you have interesting points in there. I'm also an ifi fan I really like my ifi idac2 base setup with iCan Se and iTube2 however ifi today reminds me of Nokia when the very first iPhone came. Very similar case: a long line of products and models that nobody could understand, minimal differences like case color, higher manufacturing and support costs due to range of product line... and lack of real innovation from once innovative company that made a statement in mobile world.

As for using single DAC chip I kind of disagree: I've heard different DACs build around different chips including in-house fpga implementation and my feeling is that the most important question is: does the dac designer really knows what he is doing and what he is trying to achieve and does he really knows particular dac chip? I don't really mind what is inside - it must just sound at least good or even better: brilliant ;) In fact ifi is using not only TI chips in their current product range if memory serves me well.
 
Jul 6, 2021 at 11:37 AM Post #1,481 of 2,390
I read your entire post with great enthusiasm and interest (I think a little coda on the GTO filter got tacked on there somehow, so I’m referring to the text up to the point where you end your “little rant” ☺️).

And it is a rant, a BIG rant, and it echoes and expounds so elegantly on so much of what I attempted to convey in mine, so in return I say thank you and BRAVO. It was quite a refreshing read, after being gratuitously exposed without consent to the distasteful display of nouveau riche up there, with the tacky Ferrari show off and some bit of inscrutable nonsense about “finding my cheese”.

I never expected to be dragged into a man-toy contest on here, but I’ve quietly and modestly acquired an immense charcuterie of “cheeses” that have piled up in my closet over the years—including a bunch of Fiios (including the M15), an iBasso dx300, a couple of obsolete Astell & Kerns I have been meaning to get rid of for ages and just about all the iFi products mentioned thus far—so god only knows how I got branded a dear little audiophile neophyte, meekly holding up my shiny new Hip Dac I got under the Christmas Tree as a tragic plea for acceptance into the Hi-Fi Big Boy’s Club!

I’m not going to persist in defending the science and empirical evidence behind balanced headphone connections, nor will I acquiesce to the accusation that I’m naively entrenched in didactics and haven’t bothered to critically listen to the audiophile gear that I enjoy on a daily basis. I’m just going to emphasize your sage point that if iFi actually invested in the product that would satisfy the current state of DAC/AMP technology within the price range of their iDSD line, they would effectively render the remainder of their product inventory obsolete.

And isn’t that essentially just a circuitous way of saying that iFi’s entire portable DAC/AMP line (minus my unfairly belittled Hip Dac) is itself just obsolete, two-or-three-years-minimum obsolete, period, full-stop? After shucking off the latest gaslighting attempt above, I’m going to restore my instincts and allege that iFi just keeps cranking out the last decade’s offerings with a big “NEW!” sticker on the box—and I think that’s arguably an explanation for why they haven’t gotten a credible five star review for any new offering since the now-ancient micro iDSD Black Label (again, with the exception of my treasured little underestimated gem, the Hip Dac). They’ve played musical chairs with some jacks and features, but primarily they’ve just painted the damn thing—first in the previous decade’s de rigueur blue, then a rather cliched macho red for some reason (possibly as a form of hormone replacement therapy for the aging male, like the aforementioned Ferrari?).

Again, I wouldn’t waste my time or any of yours if I wasn’t a stalwart fan of iFi-Audio in the first place. I’m just chafing a bit from the disappointment of eagerly awaiting the next new thing from them, only to be let down by not only a retread of what I already have, but worse—a retread of what I already have minus features I grew fond of, while keeping inputs and specs that are no longer compatible with my other essential gear. I think they’ve rested on their laurels for far too long, and they’re starting to look like charlatans—it’s time for them to put out something worthy of the price they’re demanding. Peace.

Man, I like your way of thinking. (I think) :upside_down:
I can emphasize with having interesting arguments of all kinds with people in this hobby. I think one of the strangest/most frustrating discussions I've had is probably "You can't hear LPF/Interpolation filters because any possible ringing is at 22 kHz+ and is therefore inaudible"-argument.

And actually, the discussion around the sk "Balanced headphone output" can also be very infuriating. Mainly because the market is confused about what the terms actually mean, and manufacturers are using the situation to the fullest to push garbage marketing and making it even worse. iFi is certainly guilty of this. It's actually kind of funny they had to release a set of whitepapers just to try and explain the various marketing terms they've contributed to the confusion with. Looking at you, "S-Balanced" and "True Differential Balanced" Oh my, like... okay sure, whatever iFi. :smile:

What people miss is, I think, that headphones are balanced already. They are by design. Your headphone isn't "unbalanced" and there is something you can do with changing a cable or a plug to make it "Balanced". No, it's already balanced. And I say "Balanced" in quotes because what we're actually speaking of is differential signaling. Your headphones has two wires running to into it, hot and cold, So it's already balanced. Wait does this mean my "single ended" amp is actually balanced? Well... If you agree we've concluded your headphones are Balanced, positive and negative are separated, you plug it into the amp and... Well, does your headphones become "single ended" now all of a sudden? What people want when they think of "Balanced" is differential signaling. You want the amp to provide a differentially signaling output. "Pulling" on both hot and cold, instead of "pulling" on just one, so to speak. But your headphones were never "Unbalanced" to begin with you know :beyersmile: This is basically the heart of the confusion that exists. Oh and of course if it matters if the amps internal topology is differential from input to output, or if it's good enough with a non-differential internal topology with differential outputs. But this is a whole lot for some other time haha! These kinds of discussions can get to me after a while. I'm not a patient person, I just can't any more, you know? :P
(Am I starting to rant again? Gosh hope not, too soon... Okay, focus. :thinking:)

I like / Loved the HipDac! That little thing was a stroke of genius coming out of iFi! The form factor, the name, the color and the price! The Power! Banging combination! I used to have that thing with me everywhere. Hooked up to my phone and running Tidal HiFi. Aww man... those were the days. I'd actually gotten a pair of used Sennheiser HD600 back then and I used them with the HipDac. I used to show all my friends and let them have a listen, reaction was always the same. Smiles and happy times :smile:
But speaking about smiles and happy times I don't know what happened with the Diablo. Like yeah we see it, Devil, red, fire, much power, very balanced and so on... but stripping features off the thing, increasing the price (again), and that... horribly misinformed choice of color. Eye Exploding RED. Like why...? Yes devil, fire, power-whatever... but why though? Who thought it was a good idea? You want to be different, ok sure, that's definitely something that can work, but not like this. I had the Diablo here from a mutual friend who borrowed me it in exchange for my Signature to demo it. It's such an eye sore. It screams "Look at me I'm different! Not like all this other hifi crap gear!" But I kinda felt embarrassed having it with me clashing its screaming RED color against all the other gear/clothes it just doesn't go with. Walking outside with it, I thought people looking at me funny wondering if I had some kind of kids powerbank I was holding or from certain angles maybe some hotdog thingy or dildo contraption. No, you know, I kinda realized this thing really clashes with... everything and spooks my brain. Personally, I become so self aware with it. It just... no, I don't like it.

- "Mmkay, whatever 24bitGarbage dude... The Sound... man... Sound, Do you know it?? And how did it do you?!"
Well this isn't a review, and it's arguably not even the right thread, so... but it sounds good. Sounds really good actually. Only problem is the price. (And that horrible damn color. Never thought a color would be kind of a deal-breaker, but... oh man oh man...) The price is a major issue. Because I'm paying more money, for what? Oh yeah right.... the balanced stuff that should've been in the Signature. But listening to both. There is not a lot of difference there, sorry to say. I mean It's really difficult to tell, actually. I mean, If I heard anything it was minor, could have been my imagination just as well so... That's all I can say about that really. If you need that insane power, great, go for it! , otherwise I just don't see the point. If your wallet is to heavy for you then you know, have at it. I have my Sig back now and I'm not phased whatsoever not having the Diablo here anymore.

@24bit Garbage , @srkbear you have interesting points in there. I'm also an ifi fan I really like my ifi idac2 base setup with iCan Se and iTube2 however ifi today reminds me of Nokia when the very first iPhone came. Very similar case: a long line of products and models that nobody could understand, minimal differences like case color, higher manufacturing and support costs due to range of product line... and lack of real innovation from once innovative company that made a statement in mobile world.

As for using single DAC chip I kind of disagree: I've heard different DACs build around different chips including in-house fpga implementation and my feeling is that the most important question is: does the dac designer really knows what he is doing and what he is trying to achieve and does he really knows particular dac chip? I don't really mind what is inside - it must just sound at least good or even better: brilliant :wink: In fact ifi is using not only TI chips in their current product range if memory serves me well.

The choice of DAC chip by itself is amazingly overhyped. Power supply, clock, output stage etc all comes before the specific DAC chip in importance for the ultimate sound quality. But the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And the weakest link, in today's environment, shouldn't be the DAC chip. And iFi cannot get a serious reviewers and serious enthusiasts to give them praise and high ratings anymore because they are stuck in yesterday, the market and the community evolved and moved on. And iFi got left behind and they still refuse to see it. I mean, no one serious in this hobby thinks "We think this chip sounds the best"- is an adequate answer anymore. That is not going to fly in todays market and where it's heading. And iFi is just Average. And every product they will release is on one way or another going to continue to be "just average".

Dogmatically using this One Chip all the time limits them in a Big Way when it comes to releasing quality products. We can see this design philosophies ill effects already in how their current line up is structured. The product segmentation / differentiation they are forced to employ are severely hurting them in my opinion. And it can only get worse! That's the thing. It can only get worse because they have nowhere to go, other than to continue to paint themselves into this corner. The competition provides all the features and all the stuff you'll ever want, plus some more. I mean that's where we're at today. And it's just killer value! iFi just can't compete like they are now... because "that product" would kill off half or more of their entire line up. And that's bad. iFi needs to get with the times, or the times will leave iFi behind. Maybe not tomorrow, but when v6 of the iDSD rolls out with a different name 3x Core BB Chip (Still no BT) you might have had just about enough of it by then you know...
 
Jul 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM Post #1,482 of 2,390
Man, I like your way of thinking. (I think) :upside_down:
I can emphasize with having interesting arguments of all kinds with people in this hobby. I think one of the strangest/most frustrating discussions I've had is probably "You can't hear LPF/Interpolation filters because any possible ringing is at 22 kHz+ and is therefore inaudible"-argument.

And actually, the discussion around the sk "Balanced headphone output" can also be very infuriating. Mainly because the market is confused about what the terms actually mean, and manufacturers are using the situation to the fullest to push garbage marketing and making it even worse. iFi is certainly guilty of this. It's actually kind of funny they had to release a set of whitepapers just to try and explain the various marketing terms they've contributed to the confusion with. Looking at you, "S-Balanced" and "True Differential Balanced" Oh my, like... okay sure, whatever iFi. :smile:

What people miss is, I think, that headphones are balanced already. They are by design. Your headphone isn't "unbalanced" and there is something you can do with changing a cable or a plug to make it "Balanced". No, it's already balanced. And I say "Balanced" in quotes because what we're actually speaking of is differential signaling. Your headphones has two wires running to into it, hot and cold, So it's already balanced. Wait does this mean my "single ended" amp is actually balanced? Well... If you agree we've concluded your headphones are Balanced, positive and negative are separated, you plug it into the amp and... Well, does your headphones become "single ended" now all of a sudden? What people want when they think of "Balanced" is differential signaling. You want the amp to provide a differentially signaling output. "Pulling" on both hot and cold, instead of "pulling" on just one, so to speak. But your headphones were never "Unbalanced" to begin with you know :beyersmile: This is basically the heart of the confusion that exists. Oh and of course if it matters if the amps internal topology is differential from input to output, or if it's good enough with a non-differential internal topology with differential outputs. But this is a whole lot for some other time haha! These kinds of discussions can get to me after a while. I'm not a patient person, I just can't any more, you know? :p
(Am I starting to rant again? Gosh hope not, too soon... Okay, focus. :thinking:)

I like / Loved the HipDac! That little thing was a stroke of genius coming out of iFi! The form factor, the name, the color and the price! The Power! Banging combination! I used to have that thing with me everywhere. Hooked up to my phone and running Tidal HiFi. Aww man... those were the days. I'd actually gotten a pair of used Sennheiser HD600 back then and I used them with the HipDac. I used to show all my friends and let them have a listen, reaction was always the same. Smiles and happy times :smile:
But speaking about smiles and happy times I don't know what happened with the Diablo. Like yeah we see it, Devil, red, fire, much power, very balanced and so on... but stripping features off the thing, increasing the price (again), and that... horribly misinformed choice of color. Eye Exploding RED. Like why...? Yes devil, fire, power-whatever... but why though? Who thought it was a good idea? You want to be different, ok sure, that's definitely something that can work, but not like this. I had the Diablo here from a mutual friend who borrowed me it in exchange for my Signature to demo it. It's such an eye sore. It screams "Look at me I'm different! Not like all this other hifi crap gear!" But I kinda felt embarrassed having it with me clashing its screaming RED color against all the other gear/clothes it just doesn't go with. Walking outside with it, I thought people looking at me funny wondering if I had some kind of kids powerbank I was holding or from certain angles maybe some hotdog thingy or dildo contraption. No, you know, I kinda realized this thing really clashes with... everything and spooks my brain. Personally, I become so self aware with it. It just... no, I don't like it.

- "Mmkay, whatever 24bitGarbage dude... The Sound... man... Sound, Do you know it?? And how did it do you?!"
Well this isn't a review, and it's arguably not even the right thread, so... but it sounds good. Sounds really good actually. Only problem is the price. (And that horrible damn color. Never thought a color would be kind of a deal-breaker, but... oh man oh man...) The price is a major issue. Because I'm paying more money, for what? Oh yeah right.... the balanced stuff that should've been in the Signature. But listening to both. There is not a lot of difference there, sorry to say. I mean It's really difficult to tell, actually. I mean, If I heard anything it was minor, could have been my imagination just as well so... That's all I can say about that really. If you need that insane power, great, go for it! , otherwise I just don't see the point. If your wallet is to heavy for you then you know, have at it. I have my Sig back now and I'm not phased whatsoever not having the Diablo here anymore.



The choice of DAC chip by itself is amazingly overhyped. Power supply, clock, output stage etc all comes before the specific DAC chip in importance for the ultimate sound quality. But the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. And the weakest link, in today's environment, shouldn't be the DAC chip. And iFi cannot get a serious reviewers and serious enthusiasts to give them praise and high ratings anymore because they are stuck in yesterday, the market and the community evolved and moved on. And iFi got left behind and they still refuse to see it. I mean, no one serious in this hobby thinks "We think this chip sounds the best"- is an adequate answer anymore. That is not going to fly in todays market and where it's heading. And iFi is just Average. And every product they will release is on one way or another going to continue to be "just average".

Dogmatically using this One Chip all the time limits them in a Big Way when it comes to releasing quality products. We can see this design philosophies ill effects already in how their current line up is structured. The product segmentation / differentiation they are forced to employ are severely hurting them in my opinion. And it can only get worse! That's the thing. It can only get worse because they have nowhere to go, other than to continue to paint themselves into this corner. The competition provides all the features and all the stuff you'll ever want, plus some more. I mean that's where we're at today. And it's just killer value! iFi just can't compete like they are now... because "that product" would kill off half or more of their entire line up. And that's bad. iFi needs to get with the times, or the times will leave iFi behind. Maybe not tomorrow, but when v6 of the iDSD rolls out with a different name 3x Core BB Chip (Still no BT) you might have had just about enough of it by then you know...
😂 Just in case you missed many references in my reply, I was referring to another user on here who pretty much dismissed my gripes about iFi’s lack of innovation in recent years by way of a little photo-illustration of my misguided ways—depicting him trying to pack expensive luggage (presumably his?) into his Diablo-esque Ferrari. And he wrapped things up with a metaphoric suggestion that I eschew pesky specifications in favor of finding my favorite variety of cheese. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that—I must admit I’m still rather befuddled from the experience.
 
Jul 6, 2021 at 8:36 PM Post #1,483 of 2,390
I didn't use a firmware yet.. But I like it, I guess I'll just leave this here.
 
Jul 7, 2021 at 5:55 AM Post #1,484 of 2,390
It comes from this dogmatic belief that someone high up in the company once had about "The best DAC chips of all time" and "What sounds the best to everyone, according to me" philosophy that they seemingly based a company around. And they have stuck to this like a fly on honey to this day.

If that's your way of saying that we have our house sound, then yes, it's a thing ;)
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jul 7, 2021 at 10:46 AM Post #1,485 of 2,390
😂 Just in case you missed many references in my reply, I was referring to another user on here who pretty much dismissed my gripes about iFi’s lack of innovation in recent years by way of a little photo-illustration of my misguided ways—depicting him trying to pack expensive luggage (presumably his?) into his Diablo-esque Ferrari. And he wrapped things up with a metaphoric suggestion that I eschew pesky specifications in favor of finding my favorite variety of cheese. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that—I must admit I’m still rather befuddled from the experience.
:laughing:
You misinterpreted my post. The photos were actually screen shots from a video shared in one of my chat groups. I wish I could show you the short clip in its entirety, but they only allow photo uploads here. Completely ridiculous scenario but funny and parallel to what we're talking about. Not me in the video (I don't own a Ferrari either :darthsmile:) nor meant as a flex at all. You already bought and own your iDsd Signature and it seems that you're frustrated about it not being truly balanced like your much cheeper HipDac. It's just sitting in a drawer and you're not using it because it's not truly balanced? I'm assuming it sounds much better than the HipDac (never demo'd one so IDK) but you won't bother because you feel duped by iFi's marketing? Such a shame that this seemingly important detail wasn't researched before purchase.

Sorry you took offence with my Jamaican friend's analogy, perhaps I should have stuck with cars. Doubtful that should require interpretation but just in case - Find what works for you and enjoy.

Back to cars, you have an awesome sounding Ferrari just sitting in your garage, drive it or find a better cheese oops I mean car. :joy:
:cheese::race_car:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top