iFi audio iDSD Signature - The saga continues!
Dec 2, 2020 at 6:45 PM Post #706 of 2,172
Regarding battery power, it seems like iFi designed the charging circuitry to stop short of 100% charging when the iDSD is in use and power is connected. As a couple folks have noted, the charging light remains a steady white/blue in this mode which indicates no charging. When turned off, the iDSD starts to blink, indicating charge. Seeing how the light transitions from green to white/blue, I think charging is stopped around 80% when it is in use and power is plugged in. If this is the case, that's good because that will prevent overcharging and the battery will last a very long time, like 10+ years. However, if you must have 100% charge for portable use, then make sure you turn off your iDSD so it can finish charging to the full amount. My Sony DAP has this feature where you can limit charge to 90% to significantly increase battery life. I think Sony knows a thing or 2 about LiON batteries.

I wonder if @iFi audio can confirm if this is right.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 7:42 AM Post #707 of 2,172
@Currawong
is this something you have noticed, I imagine a lot of people would enjoy the more natural sounding 5.2. What's the point of having a Burr-Brown Dac chip from 2003 if the newer 5.3 firmware just makes it sound like a modern glassy Sabre Dac.
I tend to think of Sabre/BB/AKM (4497/4499) as metal/wood/glass respectively. I think that the BB DACs can sound a bit harsh when less than perfectly implemented (Sabre DAC end up sounding flat and grey instead, and the AKM TOTL DACs fail more gracefully, just losing detail).

That being said, I'll give the older firmware a go. I'd be surprised if it made a huge difference in "bit perfect" (non-oversampling) mode given the main difference is the digital filters. I think what makes the most noticeable difference so far is a good S/PDIF source that bypasses the USB input. It removes a bit of edgy-ness in the sound.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 10:59 AM Post #708 of 2,172
We use USB3.0 to futureproof our products, that's all there is to it. USB3.0 has no sonic benefits over USB2.0 but provides more firm mechanical connection and it might become the industry's standard. If it does, we'll be there already :)

From that statement I take it as the port on the back is indeed supposed to be a USB 3.0 male connection, for mechanical reasons and to futureproof your products in case 3.0 becomes more widespread. That's good and all! But as you can see in the picture below, my iDSD Signature seems to be missing 5 pins. Underneath I am holding a regular USB 3.0 male connector from a cable I had lying around. So should assume the unit that was shipped to me is damaged? Should I contact the retailer that sold me this unit and ask for a new one or a refund?

I had a read on Wikipedia where it says (About USB 3.0) "The specification defines a physically separate channel to carry USB 3.0 traffic". And as far as I can tell, that entire channel, the five pins, are missing on my unit. Is my unit damaged?

iDSDSig.jpg
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 1:46 PM Post #709 of 2,172
From that statement I take it as the port on the back is indeed supposed to be a USB 3.0 male connection, for mechanical reasons and to futureproof your products in case 3.0 becomes more widespread. That's good and all! But as you can see in the picture below, my iDSD Signature seems to be missing 5 pins. Underneath I am holding a regular USB 3.0 male connector from a cable I had lying around. So should assume the unit that was shipped to me is damaged? Should I contact the retailer that sold me this unit and ask for a new one or a refund?

I had a read on Wikipedia where it says (About USB 3.0) "The specification defines a physically separate channel to carry USB 3.0 traffic". And as far as I can tell, that entire channel, the five pins, are missing on my unit. Is my unit damaged?

Let me internally ask about that. I'll get back to you once I know what's what :)
 
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Dec 3, 2020 at 3:29 PM Post #710 of 2,172
From that statement I take it as the port on the back is indeed supposed to be a USB 3.0 male connection, for mechanical reasons and to futureproof your products in case 3.0 becomes more widespread. That's good and all! But as you can see in the picture below, my iDSD Signature seems to be missing 5 pins. Underneath I am holding a regular USB 3.0 male connector from a cable I had lying around. So should assume the unit that was shipped to me is damaged? Should I contact the retailer that sold me this unit and ask for a new one or a refund?

I had a read on Wikipedia where it says (About USB 3.0) "The specification defines a physically separate channel to carry USB 3.0 traffic". And as far as I can tell, that entire channel, the five pins, are missing on my unit. Is my unit damaged?

iDSDSig.jpg

Same as my unit and also confirmed with the system info on my MBP. It is a 3.0 socket mechanically, but a 2.0 socket electrically. I also would not worry about future proofing with 3.0 since the entire industry screwed up the 3.0 transition, especially around power delivery. I can't tell you how many times I had my MBP drop 3.0 connections due to power saving mode during sleep. Also, buy any no name "USB 3.0" card reader on Amazon and 90% of the time you will only get 2.0 transfer rates. They get away with this because most consumers have no idea and their SD cards can't use 3.0 bandwidth anyway. The future is USB-C and Thunderbolt for bandwidth intensive applications. All low bandwidth 2.0 era devices have or will transition to wireless. 3.0 is stuck in the middle - overkill for all 2.0 applications but not enough bandwidth for external drives/displays/ and other high bandwidth peripherals. Personally, I hope all future DACs go to some high speed BT or other wireless data connection, but the will make the cable makers unhappy LOL.

Regardless, iFi should update their marketing content to accurately describe what they mean with USB 3.0.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 3:38 PM Post #711 of 2,172
Regardless, iFi should update their marketing content to accurately describe what they mean with USB 3.0.

What I originally meant was USB3.0 type B socket mechanically superior over its 2.0 counterpart. But I'll ask if there's anything above that.
 
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Dec 3, 2020 at 3:46 PM Post #712 of 2,172
What I originally meant was USB3.0 type B socket mechanically superior over its 2.0 counterpart. But I'll ask if there's anything above that.

You have a USB A male connector on the iDSD Sig which can accept both USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 OTG cables and have 100% of iDSD's capabilities in both cases. I personally can't think of a better way to describe iFi's implementation other than call it "3.0" so good luck to your marketing folks!
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 9:46 PM Post #713 of 2,172
@iFi audio

Just curious if there is anyway to have 2 iFi DAC inputs to my MacBook Pro? The computer only seems to recognise one device as they both are identified by the same device "iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output".

To be specific I have one iFi Zen Dac, and one iFi iDSD Signature that I would like to be run concurrently. Just curious if that's technically possible.

Thanks in advance!
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 10:47 PM Post #714 of 2,172
@iFi audio

Just curious if there is anyway to have 2 iFi DAC inputs to my MacBook Pro? The computer only seems to recognise one device as they both are identified by the same device "iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output".

To be specific I have one iFi Zen Dac, and one iFi iDSD Signature that I would like to be run concurrently. Just curious if that's technically possible.

Thanks in advance!

If you see two separate devices, but with the each the same name, then yes, you have both working simultaneously. You can figure out which is which by testing the sound output. If you see only one device label when both are plugged in, then you need a USB to SPDIF converter to use on one of the iFi devices.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 10:59 PM Post #715 of 2,172
@iFi audio

Just curious if there is anyway to have 2 iFi DAC inputs to my MacBook Pro? The computer only seems to recognise one device as they both are identified by the same device "iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output".

To be specific I have one iFi Zen Dac, and one iFi iDSD Signature that I would like to be run concurrently. Just curious if that's technically possible.

Thanks in advance!

Yes, this is possible (at least on Windows). To my knowledge, it should be the same on Mac but if it doesn't work, a USB to SPDIF one will.

For example, I have used our ZEN DAC stacked with a ZEN CAN concurrently with our iDSD Signature.

Whichever device you plug in and turn on first will be labeled as (iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output).

The second device should be (iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output - 2) and so on.

Let me know if that answers that question! I, unfortunately, don't have a Mac on me to test directly.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 11:30 PM Post #716 of 2,172
[QUOTE = "MLGrado, publicación: 15970354, miembro: 393124"]
[/CITAR]

If you read my message a little more carefully, you will see that it is not a personal attack. In fact, I tell him that it would be great if he could make a comparison because at least to me, I am very interested. You declare yourself a fan of Ifi and that's not bad. I myself really enjoyed the black label and I am in a post from an Ifi DAC, because I have a real interest in the product. For my part, I will greatly appreciate if you make a comparison between black label, signature and Neo. And if it also expands to even more products that you have been able to try, I will have to include your publication in favorites 😀

my apologies. I did hastily read your post. I stand corrected and appreciate your input and ideas :) I am quite sorry and I should not have disrespected you. I took a long break from this site for the very reason I did get personal attacks via PM that were let us say unprofessional for my review of the original iDSD Micro thread that is still going strong and one of the largest threads on the site. It got very very personal, with vulgarities insinuating I know %$^$^% about anything and should go away. So I still have a certain sensitivity.

But in my absence I have learned to thicken my skin and not think too much about it. What people who don't know me, my background, classically trained musician who has perfect pitch etc. just doesn't hurt my feeling too bad anymore. I just got a little irritated by a previous poster. And I should not have taken it out on you. Any questions, advice or input is greatly welcomed.

I am putting together what I THINK may be a novel review site. I can't give you many details because I don't want copycats to get the drop on me but there will be MAJOR incentives to read and/or join that may be more generous that any review site ever made. Plus I will be taking advantage as one of the first 'amateurs' to actually have access to the Audio Precision measurement suites. Now, they won't necessarily be comparable to other sites that use AP like Stereophile or even manufactures like iFi that have AP in the lab. I will be using the best third party AD/DA I can afford and am in the middle of raising the approx. 7 to 10 grand I need to get started. I want to surpass other blog sites that use 1000 dollar range measurement equipment that is very good to a point, but I want as much resolution as I can possibly get so we can really see more of the actual device being measured than the performance floor of the AD/DA. It won't be AP hardware level, no. But I think it can still provide great value and surpass the resolution of similar sites.

Also of course I have unique ideas on audio tech myself that I think may be interesting. From 10 years of reading every report I could get on new tech like DSD, high rez PCM, DSD editing systems, how they really work, research into Pyramix recording and Horus ADC, how they have made Pyramix just an INCREDIBLE platform on which to record with even 'DXD' mix modes running at 24 bit 1.4 Megahertz 2's complement PCM which in all honest for editing DSD256 can have just about as an amazing slow rolloff to Nyquist with no noise problems at all considering how much room there is in DSD256 to distribute the noise shaping. Its a stunning system. These are the kind of things we will talk about and have interviews with top guys in the industry.

My own views and understandings on audio have changed a lot of course over the years, but I am confident in the knowledge I have obtained from personal research and direct teaching for Thorsten Loesch of iFi himself, who was more than generous to explain their processes in the early years, and the other major source of my understanding of DSD was primarily made on my own studying every document I can find, after Thorsten explained to be just how simple a 1 bit DSD delay line with multiple one bit streams delayed by a clock pulse creates a moving average filter that maintains the original DSD bitstream in every stream (in the case of the iFi the Burr Brown chip has an 8 level bitstream that goes direct to the bit switches which voltage values are the analog equivalent of taps in a digital FIR moving average filter).

Then I found that all my research on DSD and understanding lined up exactly with what Jussi (Miska) of HQPlayer and Signalyst is doing. In this realm folks are working in the thermometer code or unary code world in DSD of all number of simultaneous bitstreams. It is essentially multiple single 1 bit streams at once to create multi-bit delta sigma. My only separation from Miska is when the system is processing 1 bit DSD (His open source DAC design is a 32 level designed to operate most effectively at higher speeds than DSD64 or even DSD128 to maintain the best impulse response) Miska is calling it multi bit DSD. At this point I am just calling that 1 bit DSD filtered by a 32 tap FIR filter :) BUT his point is ABSOLUTELY correct that it can be easily also used to convert true Multi-Bit Delta Sigma straight from the ADC with no need whatsoever to EVER go to a single bitstream. That is the holy grail. With scramble code and linearity that R2R Ladders could only dream of. (And 1 bit DSD too for that matter haha)

I really hope this is where audio is heading. Less conversion. Give us the raw multi level bitstream straight from the ADC. Don't decimate it PCM first or throw out massive amounts of actual resolution by outputting it as 1 bit DSD. That multi bit DSD bistream is now editable (I still think PCM will still dominate in the edit, but now we can have true Delta Sigma editing with no conversions like Sonomas's DSD wide. I hope I haven't lost you. Then there would ne NO need to re noiseshape back to 1 bit with these discrete hardware DACS that are basically Digital FIR filters rendered with discrete parts in the analog domain like flip flops, shift registers and switches with actual voltages combined at the end rather than numbers that still need to be converted to voltage.

Anyway, this is the kind of review site I will be publishing someday. We will have equipment reviews of ALL types, mostly HEAD-FI stuff but not always, we will have recording reviews (again I have a degree in classical piano performance on a full free 4 year ride for performance excellence so I know a 'bit' about the music review thing)

And I can't tell you the really BIG attraction yet. That is later.

And again, sorry for attacking you. And for hijacking my own apology to talk about me :) :)
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 11:33 PM Post #717 of 2,172
Yes, this is possible (at least on Windows). To my knowledge, it should be the same on Mac but if it doesn't work, a USB to SPDIF one will.

For example, I have used our ZEN DAC stacked with a ZEN CAN concurrently with our iDSD Signature.

Whichever device you plug in and turn on first will be labeled as (iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output).

The second device should be (iFi (by AMR) HD Audio Output - 2) and so on.

Let me know if that answers that question! I, unfortunately, don't have a Mac on me to test directly.

I haven't had any luck. Looking at my system information they both have the same device name. Once I plug in an additional iFi device the other one stops and the system cannot figure out which device. In Audirvana only one device name shows up as well. I will try a USB to SPDIF solution, but would be nice to not have to.


X4ItruL.jpg
 
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Dec 3, 2020 at 11:48 PM Post #718 of 2,172
I haven't had any luck. Looking at my system information they both have the same device name. Once I plug in an additional iFi device the other one stops and the system cannot figure out which device. In Audirvana only one device name shows up as well. I will try a USB to SPDIF solution, but would be nice to not have to.


X4ItruL.jpg

Yep, you got same device and vendor ID so on Mac OS, you can't use both simultaneously. I would have suggested trying different firmware versions but your pic already shows that you do so that won't work either. A USB to SPDIF will definitely do the trick, but you limit yourself to 192 max sample rate and possibly lose MQA and DoP as well. Not sure if all that is worth it, although @Currawong mentioned a more organic sound from SPDIF input on his iDSD Sig. You could also request iFi to create a version of firmware with different device ID. I don't think you are the only one wanting to use multiple iFi devices on your Mac.
 
Dec 3, 2020 at 11:55 PM Post #719 of 2,172
Yep, you got same device and vendor ID so on Mac OS, you can't use both simultaneously. I would have suggested trying different firmware versions but your pic already shows that you do so that won't work either. A USB to SPDIF will definitely do the trick, but you limit yourself to 192 max sample rate and possibly lose MQA and DoP as well. Not sure if all that is worth it, although @Currawong mentioned a more organic sound from SPDIF input on his iDSD Sig. You could also request iFi to create a version of firmware with different device ID. I don't think you are the only one wanting to use multiple iFi devices on your Mac.

Thanks for confirming this. Looks like I'l have to resort to using less iFi products 😜. Maybe this issue will motivate iFi to find a solution? Or maybe the demand is not big enough to warrant them to create a firmware with different device ID's. Will wait and see...

Update: actually my 2019 MacBook Pro does not have SPDIF supported anymore, so that is not really an option.
 
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Dec 3, 2020 at 11:57 PM Post #720 of 2,172
@Gabola ~ open up a support ticket here for good measure: https://support.ifi-audio.com/open.php

Our STS team will get back to you and will be able to go more in-depth to see if you can do it without using a converter!

Be sure to mention that request as well, it will put it on their radar and I'll bring it up internally tomorrow.
 

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