[iFi audio]

ROB / iFi,

Does iFi have a resolution or pending fix for the above referenced channel imbalance issue on the Micro Signature? If there is an update, would you be able to share with the group. Everyone seems to agree it is a great DAC / AMP aside from this problem.

Thanks

Dave

Channel imbalance shouldn't be an issue during normal listening levels and being in the 12-15 o'clock range as specified here: https://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?id=516

If upon meeting these criteria channel imbalance is present, then I'd contact your place of purchase and ask for a swap.

I am really interested in this, but channel imbalance has me hesitant.

Early on you might experience it, but along with volume increase it should stop. Worst case scenario, your iFi reseller should replace the product if channel imbalance is severe.

They knew about the issue because it happened with the micro BL,

We sure know about it, yes.

I think they don’t see it as an issue per se given that you can use IEMatch as a work around.

Yes, given settings micro iDSD Signature provides, channel imbalance early on isn't a problem. The problem is when it occurs during normal listening levels.

 

[pompecukor]

If upon meeting these criteria channel imbalance is present, then I'd contact your place of purchase and ask for a swap.

LOL... yeah right..

I guess I should actually consider myself lucky that I was withing my 7-14 days right to return with not quibble. Otherwise I may have needed to wait through a long warranty claim, which can take anything from 30 to 90 days if one is lucky.

I blurred out the other stuff for obvious privacy reasons. I decided to post this just to show everyone that I am not making this up. I am not bashing anyone without reason. That I indeed wanted to same product, just without this defect. How can anyone consider that "hating" or anything like that.
I believe that I exhaust all my options with what you see in this picture. Won't you agree?.

 

[bflat]

Just got the new Sig iDSD. I owned a regular Micro version sometime back but went exclusively to DAPs for portable use. I've often thought about getting another iDSD because in hind sight, I like the form factor when using with my laptop. With the new Signature version, I thought it was time to go back. My specific use is with my new MacBook Air M1. Even though I expect to work from home for some time, I still have to move around the house due to sharing workspace with my household. I really miss my personal space in my office LOL.

Initial thoughts:

• I forgot how much power the Micro series have. I'm not sure if sensitive IEMs play well even with IE Match. I only have high impedance IEMs and Eco mode is plenty power without needing IE Match.
• As far as channel imbalance. I've come to expect some imbalance at lowest volumes on any analog volume pot unless it is a stepped resistor pot. On my unit, I can get just left channel when I can start to hear sound, but right channel comes in quickly by 9:30ish. I have to set the amp all the way to Turbo to get enough volume at 9:30 to get a good sense of balance. See pics below for more detail, but I don't see this as an issue at all for me since the imbalance is extremely short range and at far lower volume than I will listen.
• As for sound, I tried both GTO (Minimum Phase setting per 5.3c firmware) and Bit Perfect. Both are highly technically capable but the subtle differences are:
  • GTO - a more musical, organic sound which I prefer. Slightly more analog sound.
  • Bit Perfect - more bite, more analytical sounding. Slightly more digital sound.
• One bit of advice I can share is use a clean power adapter for the USB C port if you have it plugged in while listening. I initially used a multi port charger that powers my laptop and I could easily hear a lot of noise in the background. Switching to a single port charger, the noise when away. Battery power without USB C plugged is cleanest of course.
• Note - line out is fixed and does not automatically mute when headphones are connected. It is always on.
• In eco mode, GTO filter, and no IE Match I find the iDSD Sig and new T5 Gen 3 to be a fantastic combo which is exactly the setup I plan to use the most. Also Xbass and 3D turned off.

Chanel Imbalance Pics - I can hear the imbalance in between the pics below. Amp mode is set to Turbo and using my Beyer T5 headphones (32 ohm). The range of the imbalance is about the width of the white mark on the knob.

Volume knob turned to max amount where I can't hear anything:



Volume knob turned to min amount where I get correct left and right balance (probably can be lower, but volume is too low for me to be 100% sure balance is perfect):

 

[Lalerfy]

Just got the new Sig iDSD. I owned a regular Micro version sometime back but went exclusively to DAPs for portable use. I've often thought about getting another iDSD because in hind sight, I like the form factor when using with my laptop. With the new Signature version, I thought it was time to go back. My specific use is with my new MacBook Air M1. Even though I expect to work from home for some time, I still have to move around the house due to sharing workspace with my household. I really miss my personal space in my office LOL.

Initial thoughts:

• I forgot how much power the Micro series have. I'm not sure if sensitive IEMs play well even with IE Match. I only have high impedance IEMs and Eco mode is plenty power without needing IE Match.
• As far as channel imbalance. I've come to expect some imbalance at lowest volumes on any analog volume pot unless it is a stepped resistor pot. On my unit, I can get just left channel when I can start to hear sound, but right channel comes in quickly by 9:30ish. I have to set the amp all the way to Turbo to get enough volume at 9:30 to get a good sense of balance. See pics below for more detail, but I don't see this as an issue at all for me since the imbalance is extremely short range and at far lower volume than I will listen.
• As for sound, I tried both GTO (Minimum Phase setting per 5.3c firmware) and Bit Perfect. Both are highly technically capable but the subtle differences are:
  • GTO - a more musical, organic sound which I prefer. Slightly more analog sound.
  • Bit Perfect - more bite, more analytical sounding. Slightly more digital sound.
• One bit of advice I can share is use a clean power adapter for the USB C port if you have it plugged in while listening. I initially used a multi port charger that powers my laptop and I could easily hear a lot of noise in the background. Switching to a single port charger, the noise when away. Battery power without USB C plugged is cleanest of course.
• Note - line out is fixed and does not automatically mute when headphones are connected. It is always on.
• In eco mode, GTO filter, and no IE Match I find the iDSD Sig and new T5 Gen 3 to be a fantastic combo which is exactly the setup I plan to use the most. Also Xbass and 3D turned off.

Chanel Imbalance Pics - I can hear the imbalance in between the pics below. Amp mode is set to Turbo and using my Beyer T5 headphones (32 ohm). The range of the imbalance is about the width of the white mark on the knob.

Volume knob turned to max amount where I can't hear anything:



Volume knob turned to min amount where I get correct left and right balance (probably can be lower, but volume is too low for me to be 100% sure balance is perfect):

@bflat Have you tried firmware (5.2b)Limoncello yet? It has the most natural sound. You can notice the slightly longer decay on snare drum beats + piano notes, it sounds more natural and less dry, music is more enjoyable.
►https://iFi-Audio.com/firmware/unified-firmware-for-various-products

 

[bflat]

@bflat Have you tried firmware (5.2b)Limoncello yet? It has the most natural sound. You can notice the slightly longer decay on snare drum beats + piano notes, it sounds more natural and less dry, music is more enjoyable.
►https://iFi-Audio.com/firmware/unified-firmware-for-various-products

Thanks, I will give that a try after burn in.

 

[iFi audio]

LOL... yeah right..

Since there was no product available without this issue, you'll be refunded, which is how this should be resolved.

 

[pompecukor]

Since there was no product available without this issue, you'll be refunded, which is how this should be resolved.

It sure has (be resolved). Good thing I bought it from a reliable vendor.

Believe me when I say that I was not trying to beat a dead horse today or yesterday. I sent my unit back for a refund on the 26th as you saw and I did not even comment in this tread till someone asked me what I ended up doing.

My more recent posts was more a call out for those two guys that posted to say that "they (IFI) are very supportive and they will sort you out". To kinda burst their bubbles and demonstrate to others what they can expect in a similar situation is far from that.

When I first reported my issue. I waited 3-4 days before contacting my vendor. I was very naive, because I foolishly was expecting a PM or mail from IFI saying something like "...hay we see/hear that you have a more sever case than others. However as you stated that you are otherwise happy with the product, we would like to stand behind what we manufacturer and offer you the following....Send us the unit to our HQ in UK, once we verify that there is no scratch and all the original packaging is intact and all accessories are included. Then we will send you one back that we personally tested to have little to no imbalance...You do have to cover the shipping however, is that ok sir?.You will need to wait a week for this turnaround, but it is the best we can do, are you ok with that?...."

Alas no one wrote anything...
I am quite certain that many (experienced customers) would not find the above unreasonable.

As I mentioned here previously, I run a manufacturing company too (much smaller than yours obviously). And that is round about what I would have done. And my products are not even discussed on public forums by random buyers. So for me the motivation would not even have been to marketing aspect as in to "look" supportive, but rather to actually be. Again each to his own. I was naive with my expectations.

If you look at my first post reporting the issue, there was no sign of static. I was asking for help and advice from you. It was total ignored. You saw it. You did not say a word. This (today) is the first time you commented on it.

You can read it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...e-saga-continues.944241/page-40#post-15989934

The only people that tried to help were some other users. 4 days went by before I returned the unit. You posted multiple times in those for days. But only to people that were saying nice things about the product. You did not just ignore me, but every other person that reported the issue.

Don't get me wrong. You do not own me anything. Anyway I really rest my case here. This issue for me is closed so I really wont talk about it anymore, unless I am asked a question, which obviously I will answer.
So back to our regular programming... apart from that impulsive dude yesterday with god complex, I think all the pro and contra comments have been cool and civil.. we will survive....

 

[bflat]

It sure has (be resolved). Good thing I bought it from a reliable vendor.

Believe me when I say that I was not trying to beat a dead horse today or yesterday. I sent my unit back for a refund on the 26th as you saw and I did not even comment in this tread till someone asked me what I ended up doing.

My more recent posts was more a call out for those two guys that posted to say that "they (IFI) are very supportive and they will sort you out". To kinda burst their bubbles and demonstrate to others what they can expect in a similar situation is far from that.

When I first reported my issue. I waited 3-4 days before contacting my vendor. I was very naive, because I foolishly was expecting a PM or mail from IFI saying something like "...hay we see/hear that you have a more sever case than others. However as you stated that you are otherwise happy with the product, we would like to stand behind what we manufacturer and offer you the following....Send us the unit to our HQ in UK, once we verify that there is no scratch and all the original packaging is intact and all accessories are included. Then we will send you one back that we personally tested to have little to no imbalance...You do have to cover the shipping however, is that ok sir?.You will need to wait a week for this turnaround, but it is the best we can do, are you ok with that?...."

Alas not one wrote anything...
I am quite certain that many (experienced customers) would not find the above unreasonable.

As I mentioned here previously, I run a manufacturing company too (much smaller than yours obviously). And that is round about what I would have done. And my products are not even discussed on public forums by random buyers. So for me the motivation would not even have been to marketing aspect as in to "look" supportive, but rather to actually be. Again each to his own. I was naive with my expectations.

If you look at my first post reporting the issue, there was no sign of static. I was asking for help and advice from you. It was total ignored. You saw it. You did not say a word. This (today) is the first time you commented on it.

You can read it here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...e-saga-continues.944241/page-40#post-15989934

The only people that tried to help were some other users. 4 days went by before I returned the unit. You posted multiple times in those for days. But only to people that were saying nice things about the product. You did not just ignore me, but every other person that reported the issue.

Don't get me wrong. You do not own me anything. Anyway I really rest my case here. This issue for me is closed so I really wont talk about it anymore, unless I am asked a question, which obviously I will answer.
So back to our regular programming... apart from that impulsive dude yesterday with god complex, I think all the pro and contra comments have been cool and civil.. we will survive....

In your post that describes your problems, you stated:

"Hence they are quite a bit mismatched no matter what level it is at. So no matter how loud you put it, there will be a difference. quite sever at lower volumes."

That's pretty clear to me that your unit was defective since most other folks described imbalance going away at 10-11 position. Not sure why there was so much debate about your particular unit, but at least you got a full refund. On my unit the imbalance is in a very narrow range that is too low volume to matter even at turbo mode. Assuming my unit is "average" you may want to try again if you really liked everything else about the iDSD Sig.

 

[24bit Garbage]

I'll just shove this post in here amids the channeI imbalance talk.

I went out looking for another USB cable for my iDSD Sig and some other adapters and stuff I needed. I find what I'm looking for and all is well. Although when I finally come home and swap cables I notice the back of the iDSD doesn't have any USB 3.0 signal pins. For a second I thought I might be misstaken but after pulling out the flashlight and looking really carefully in there. Nope, none. Went on the iFi site and indeed there it is, just as i remember seeing it:

Digital Inputs

USB 3.0 type A “OTG” Socket (USB2.0 compatible/with iPurifier® technology built-in)

I don't know if anyone has adressed this issue before, in that case I'm sorry for being blind as a bat but I couldn't find it. The problem I have with this really comes down to if this is some kind of marketing gimmick from iFi. USB 3.0 sounds so much better in marketing speak than regular ol' USB 2.0 but the fact is I just wasted money on a more expensive cable, it has wires in it that's never going to be used. It's not a lot of money, no one died, but this is sort of a problem right?

The fact iFi has USB 3.0 clearly visible on the product page in spite of the device being void of any USB 3.0 signal pins makes me think there is some gray zone/marketing loop hole going on here. The best thing I could think of is if there might be a USB 3.0 protocol they are using that does not require actual 3.0 signaling. So they would in practice be using kind of a "USB 3.0 protocol over legacy USB 2.0 connection" or something to that effect. Legally maybe this gives them the right to call it 3.0, I don't know. Can USB 2.0 even work in asynchronous mode? Can someone please help clarify this? I am open to the possibility of being a silly person who has missed something completly obvious about all this (I'm kinda hoping actually).

 

[mwhals]

I'll just shove this post in here amids the channeI imbalance talk.

I went out looking for another USB cable for my iDSD Sig and some other adapters and stuff I needed. I find what I'm looking for and all is well. Although when I finally come home and swap cables I notice the back of the iDSD doesn't have any USB 3.0 signal pins. For a second I thought I might be misstaken but after pulling out the flashlight and looking really carefully in there. Nope, none. Went on the iFi site and indeed there it is, just as i remember seeing it:

Digital Inputs

USB 3.0 type A “OTG” Socket (USB2.0 compatible/with iPurifier® technology built-in)

I don't know if anyone has adressed this issue before, in that case I'm sorry for being blind as a bat but I couldn't find it. The problem I have with this really comes down to if this is some kind of marketing gimmick from iFi. USB 3.0 sounds so much better in marketing speak than regular ol' USB 2.0 but the fact is I just wasted money on a more expensive cable, it has wires in it that's never going to be used. It's not a lot of money, no one died, but this is sort of a problem right?

The fact iFi has USB 3.0 clearly visible on the product page in spite of the device being void of any USB 3.0 signal pins makes me think there is some gray zone/marketing loop hole going on here. The best thing I could think of is if there might be a USB 3.0 protocol they are using that does not require actual 3.0 signaling. So they would in practice be using kind of a "USB 3.0 protocol over legacy USB 2.0 connection" or something to that effect. Legally maybe this gives them the right to call it 3.0, I don't know. Can USB 2.0 even work in asynchronous mode? Can someone please help clarify this? I am open to the possibility of being a silly person who has missed something completly obvious about all this (I'm kinda hoping actually).

Are you sure the missing pins aren't used for power? The micro signature doesn't consume power through the usb 3.0 input.

 

[bflat]

I'll just shove this post in here amids the channeI imbalance talk.

I went out looking for another USB cable for my iDSD Sig and some other adapters and stuff I needed. I find what I'm looking for and all is well. Although when I finally come home and swap cables I notice the back of the iDSD doesn't have any USB 3.0 signal pins. For a second I thought I might be misstaken but after pulling out the flashlight and looking really carefully in there. Nope, none. Went on the iFi site and indeed there it is, just as i remember seeing it:

Digital Inputs

USB 3.0 type A “OTG” Socket (USB2.0 compatible/with iPurifier® technology built-in)

I don't know if anyone has adressed this issue before, in that case I'm sorry for being blind as a bat but I couldn't find it. The problem I have with this really comes down to if this is some kind of marketing gimmick from iFi. USB 3.0 sounds so much better in marketing speak than regular ol' USB 2.0 but the fact is I just wasted money on a more expensive cable, it has wires in it that's never going to be used. It's not a lot of money, no one died, but this is sort of a problem right?

The fact iFi has USB 3.0 clearly visible on the product page in spite of the device being void of any USB 3.0 signal pins makes me think there is some gray zone/marketing loop hole going on here. The best thing I could think of is if there might be a USB 3.0 protocol they are using that does not require actual 3.0 signaling. So they would in practice be using kind of a "USB 3.0 protocol over legacy USB 2.0 connection" or something to that effect. Legally maybe this gives them the right to call it 3.0, I don't know. Can USB 2.0 even work in asynchronous mode? Can someone please help clarify this? I am open to the possibility of being a silly person who has missed something completly obvious about all this (I'm kinda hoping actually).

There are no audio tangible benefits for a DAC to use 3.0 versus 2.0. Also, 3.0 is mechanically backwards compatible with 2.0 (even USB B port). Here are the differences:

1) 3.0 supports 10x the bandwidth of 2.0. Sounds great but 2.0 already supports 480 mbps. Given the fact that DSD512 only needs 24 mbps, 2.0 has 20x the necessary bandwidth.

2) 3.0 supports bidirectional data transfer where 2.0 is unidirectional. Since a DAC only receives data, this difference is a non factor. Even so there are many professional grade USB audio interfaces that still use 2.0 because it has more than enough bandwidth to handle both send and receive data packets simultaneously.

3) Lastly, 2.0 can only deliver 500 mA of current while 3.0 can double that. This is certainly can be a indirect upgrade for those DACs that take both power and data from a single USB port, assuming such DACs need more than 500 mA or 2.5 watts of power. However, on the iDSD Sig, it features a separate USB C power input port so no benefit from the 3.0 A port. This is a good thing since USB C can deliver even more power than 3.0 for faster battery charging.

Given difference #3, perhaps iFi is just consolidating their USB design to 3.0 since some of their products do use both power and data in one USB port. If I'm not mistaken the iDSD BL uses a single power and data port. Lastly, all of the TOTL DAPs have incorporated USB C and use that as a marketing point. However, it is not due to audio benefits, but purely faster battery charging and faster data transfer when copying files to the internal memory.

Edit - Checking on my MBP, the USB A port on the iDSD Sig is indeed 2.0

 

[24bit Garbage]

Thank you both for the replys.
mwhals No the missing pins are specifically the back pins for signal and ground drain. The other four USB 2.0 pins are there. The longer cable they provide to connect the iDSD to the computer is an actual USB 3.0 cable with all pins present. That doesn't make sense to me.

Still can't help to wonder why though? But like i stated before... I think they're using some marketing loophole in the USB specifications to be able to say "USB 3.0" in the marketing material and save the money on implementation. That's really the only thing that makes sense to me right now without a proper answer from them.

Edit - Like who cares anyway? Like why is this even a thing I had to find? I'm enjoying the s#it out of this product, I feel it speaks for itself but they feel the need to lie a little on the side about the USB port of all things? Why not 3x core Burr Brown? Then I'd have to open the thing up first at least.

 

[iFi audio]

When I first reported my issue. I waited 3-4 days before contacting my vendor. I was very naive, because I foolishly was expecting a PM or mail from IFI saying something like "...hay we see/hear that you have a more sever case than others. However as you stated that you are otherwise happy with the product, we would like to stand behind what we manufacturer and offer you the following....Send us the unit to our HQ in UK, once we verify that there is no scratch and all the original packaging is intact and all accessories are included. Then we will send you one back that we personally tested to have little to no imbalance...You do have to cover the shipping however, is that ok sir?.You will need to wait a week for this turnaround, but it is the best we can do, are you ok with that?...."

In the event of any technical issues as the one you had encountered, your iFi reseller is the one to contact because we don't sell directly. The standard refund/swap procedure applies if a product doesn't function as intended. I trust that this went without any issues.

I was asking for help and advice from you. It was total ignored. You saw it. You did not say a word.

I wouldn't say that you were ignored. I read what folks write in this thread and they had suggestions good enough that I had nothing else to add. At some point I stepped in to confirm where we are on channel imbalance and that's pretty much it

If you feel ignored by me, I'm sorry to hear that. My apologies

Still can't help to wonder why though?

We use USB3.0 to futureproof our products, that's all there is to it. USB3.0 has no sonic benefits over USB2.0 but provides more firm mechanical connection and it might become the industry's standard. If it does, we'll be there already

 

[elira]

My more recent posts was more a call out for those two guys that posted to say that "they (IFI) are very supportive and they will sort you out". To kinda burst their bubbles and demonstrate to others what they can expect in a similar situation is far from that.

Getting a full refund for a product that didn't work the way you expected seems like the ideal solution.

 

[elira]

They have already built them, they distributed them, and they have sold some of them. Asking them to change their manufacturing process to identify good pots or to find a better pot that fits, and swap the pots in all the units is unrealistic.

The product is the way it is, you might like it or not, it might fit your needs or not. If they get a lot of returned units they might look into fixing the issue, but at this point I think most people are happy with their units.

Hopefully the Diablo version fixes this issue. It's the only reason I haven't bought the iDSD Signature. I had that issue with the iDSD micro BL and I wasn't happy so I sold it and moved on. In your case it didn't work out, you got your money back, they lost a sale and the dealer now has a used unit that cannot be sold as new. In my opinion you got a good resolution.