[Thorsten Loesch]

Size vs performance I think still the Diablo is unbeatable.

Different strokes for different blokes, I liked the sound of the Black Label better.

I tried the ZENs in stock(USB, stock smps)

Yes, well, that will put a significant performance ceiling on the combo.

Im getting a LPSU made for the internals of Diablo to replace the 3.7LIPO. With a 3.7/5A PSU.

This sounds like a REALLY bad idea. The circuit there is made to attach to a battery.

Did you try to run with a lab supply that way to test this will actually work?

I am not sure how the circuit would react to not having a battery but a power supply.

What is much worse, if the power supply is 3.7V the system will actually attempt to CHARGE your 3.7V power supply if external power is connected.

That will give interesting results and will actually disconnect your 3.7V supply completely from the unit - except for attempting to charge this supply to 4.2 or 4.3V with up to 3A current.

Again, I would not want to predict the overall outcome. Maybe everything will survive and all that happens is that you have a pointless 3.7V power supply and the unit running from the 5V at the USB-C socket.

Maybe the 3.7V power supply cannot tolerate large amounts of reverse current and gets damaged. Maybe the Unit will refuse to turn on.

If you want to use ONLY the power supplied via battery and completely disconnect USB-C, then make the owersupply 4.3V, not 3.7V. Because a FULL LiPo battery is 4.2V.

BUT, this will actually in my view still be inferior to just supplying the same kind of power supply set to 5.2V via USB-C.

From the battery connector power will pass through a switching supply that makes 5.2V (3A limited typically) that is supplied to the Unit's internal 5V power Bus, from which all the various power supplies run.

With power supplied to USB-C this power is connected directly to the the Unit's internal 5V power Bus, no additional switching DC-DC converters are inbetween, so noise will be lower.

The USBC power is another story. Not gonna go into what Im using there. Not LPSU.

Well, as long at the external supply via USB-C is connected, that is what supplies the Unit, the battery is disconnected and is being charged if need to or is completely inactive. So that is the power supply that needs good quality and you can ignore the battery.

Thor

 

[OCC7N]

Different strokes for different blokes, I liked the sound of the Black Label better.



Yes, well, that will put a significant performance ceiling on the combo.



This sounds like a REALLY bad idea. The circuit there is made to attach to a battery.

Did you try to run with a lab supply that way to test this will actually work?

I am not sure how the circuit would react to not having a battery but a power supply.

What is much worse, if the power supply is 3.7V the system will actually attempt to CHARGE your 3.7V power supply if external power is connected.

That will give interesting results and will actually disconnect your 3.7V supply completely from the unit - except for attempting to charge this supply to 4.2 or 4.3V with up to 3A current.

Again, I would not want to predict the overall outcome. Maybe everything will survive and all that happens is that you have a pointless 3.7V power supply and the unit running from the 5V at the USB-C socket.

Maybe the 3.7V power supply cannot tolerate large amounts of reverse current and gets damaged. Maybe the Unit will refuse to turn on.

If you want to use ONLY the power supplied via battery and completely disconnect USB-C, then make the owersupply 4.3V, not 3.7V. Because a FULL LiPo battery is 4.2V.

BUT, this will actually in my view still be inferior to just supplying the same kind of power supply set to 5.2V via USB-C.

From the battery connector power will pass through a switching supply that makes 5.2V (3A limited typically) that is supplied to the Unit's internal 5V power Bus, from which all the various power supplies run.

With power supplied to USB-C this power is connected directly to the the Unit's internal 5V power Bus, no additional switching DC-DC converters are inbetween, so noise will be lower.



Well, as long at the external supply via USB-C is connected, that is what supplies the Unit, the battery is disconnected and is being charged if need to or is completely inactive. So that is the power supply that needs good quality and you can ignore the battery.

Thor

Interesting thanks!

I have not thought about the board is trying to charge the LPSU.

All this hassle…its just better to buy the signature v2 and feed it with a good 5V LPSU?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I have not thought about the board is trying to charge the LPSU.

Just feed high quality 5V/4A via USB-C. Leave a battery inside and don't turn off the external PSU (turn off with front control only) and you get the exact result you actually want.

You can buy this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005001770635189.html

Add a DC to USB-C converter cable and retry your Red Label, see how you like it.

All this hassle…its just better to buy the signature v2 and feed it with a good 5V LPSU?

I always recommend to people to save their pennies and maximise what they got on the cheap, before looking to drop long green. But if you get the chance to cop a listen, do so.

And if you can pick up an original V1 HD6xx set up 2nd hand at a good price, worth trying. You can PM me how to "detune" the HD6XX specific part of the EQ if you do.

Thor

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

You can buy this:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005001770635189.html

Add a DC to USB-C converter cable and retry your Red Label, see how you like it.

What would be the particular advantage of this PS? If you don't mind elaborating, off-topic, I know but... lol

Cheers!!

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

What would be the particular advantage of this PS?

There are essentially no SMPS that match the iPower (now iPower X) for noise and leakage current, which is an important variable. This includes the iPower Plus and the version of it in fancy dress.

There are few linear power supplies that deliver 5V/4A and have mains transformers that offer low leakage. Toroidal Transformers without electrostatic screen are common, these can be worse for leakage currents than the iPower.

This aliexpress power supply uses a split bobbin EI mains transformer, which means it has leakage current (caused by parasitic or intentional capacitance) lower than even iPower manages.

AFAIK (I could not test) the core of the iPower X has the same transformer and EMC design as the original iPower, so both likely have the same mains leakage.

Incidentally, I have the smaller version of this AliExpress powersupply here and tested it thoroughly, it performs as advertised and I did a teardown and found it uses the parts promised and genuine ones at that.

So while delivering usefully more current than iPower & iPower X (which matters for the Red Label / Diablo) and having less mains leakage (which matters in almost all cases) the cost very moderate (45 USD plus ~15 USD shipping).

I might just buy one for my Zen CAN Siggie instead of building/modding something.

Originally the point of the iPower was to avoid the expense and size/weight of a linear PSU and it did a great job. However with current pricing relative to readily available linear supplies, it becomes difficult to recommend them.

As I wrote, it may also work to use two 5V iPower (X) in parallel using a 2->1 DC adapter if they are at hand anyway. The adapter is the one here, marked "DC female"...

But given the relative costs of the new 69 USD iPower or the 109 USD iPower X (never mind two eack plus adapter or 299 for iPower Elite), I do not see any good reason to get the rather more expensive options, next to a rather decent linear PSU that cost less.

Thor

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

There are essentially no SMPS that match the iPower (now iPower X) for noise and leakage current, which is an important variable. This includes the iPower Plus and the version of it in fancy dress.

There are few linear power supplies that deliver 5V/4A and have mains transformers that offer low leakage. Toroidal Transformers without electrostatic screen are common, these can be worse for leakage currents than the iPower.

This aliexpress power supply uses a split bobbin EI mains transformer, which means it has leakage current (caused by parasitic or intentional capacitance) lower than even iPower manages.

AFAIK (I could not test) the core of the iPower X has the same transformer and EMC design as the original iPower, so both likely have the same mains leakage.

Incidentally, I have the smaller version here and tested it thoroughly, it performs as advertised and I did a teardown and found it uses the parts promised and genuine ones at that. So while delivering usefully more current than iPower & iPower X (which matters for the Red Label / Diablo) and having less mains leakage (which matters in almost all cases) the cost very moderate (45 USD plus ~15 USD shipping).

Originally the point of the iPower was to avoid the expense and size/weight of a linear PSU and it did a great job. However with current pricing relative to readily available linear supplies, it becomes difficult to recommend them.

As I wrote, it may also work to use two 5V iPower (X) in parallel using a 2->1 DC adapter if they are at hand anyway. The adapter is the one here, marked "DC female"...

But given the relative costs of the new 69 USD iPower or the 109 USD iPower X (never mind two eack plus adapter or 299 for iPower Elite), I do not see any good reason to get the rather more expensive options, next to a rather decent linear PSU that cost less.

Thor

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I very much appreciate it.

Cheers!!

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I very much appreciate it.

Cheers!!

More technical details and recommendations for power supplies, general and specific, here:

Super (capacitor) charging your iFi Zen Can (and other zen products and possibly other manufacturers)

This actually also holds for other ifi products and others beyond.

Note also that I still think that the various iPower are great products. The addition of Supercapacitors improves them as well.

But the pricing now places them into direct competition and above good linear power supplies, which makes the recommendation much less clear cut.

Thor

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

More technical details and recommendations for power supplies, general and specific, here:

Super (capacitor) charging your iFi Zen Can (and other zen products and possibly other manufacturers)

This actually also holds for other ifi products and others beyond.

Note also that I still think that the various iPower are great products. The addition of Supercapacitors improves them as well.

But the pricing now places them into direct competition and above good linear power supplies, which makes the recommendation much less clear cut.

Thor

Thank you again Sir, appreciated!

Cheers!!

 

[deanorthk]

I have my Diablo for 3 weeks now, and gosh the sound coming from this is really something. My custom IEM are really giving out everything the have to offer I think. The size is not that much of a problem, I can carry it alongside my iphone.
One question is, though : sooner or later I'll get an iphone 15, and I wonder how usb-c to usb A male will work with an iphone.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

I have my Diablo for 3 weeks now, and gosh the sound coming from this is really something. My custom IEM are really giving out everything the have to offer I think. The size is not that much of a problem, I can carry it alongside my iphone.
One question is, though : sooner or later I'll get an iphone 15, and I wonder how usb-c to usb A male will work with an iphone.

I'm glad to hear you are enjoying it! Keep us updated with your thoughts.

In regard to USB C to USB A hopefully, some folks who do this currently with newer phones can chime in to help you out. I myself don't see it as an issue.

Cheers!!

 

[BS5711]

sooner or later I'll get an iphone 15, and I wonder how usb-c to usb A male will work with an iphone.

Logically it should be exactly the same as an iPad with USB-C.

I have seen reports that the USB-C implementation on iPhone 15 is just like an Android phone with none of the MFI requirements that Apple forced on Lightning.

I have an iPad Mini 6 with USB-C and it works flawlessly with the Diablo using a U-Green OTG cable and a number of other DAC/Amps, I will get an iPhone 15 in the next couple of months and expect that it will work exactly the same as the iPad.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Logically it should be exactly the same as an iPad with USB-C.

I have seen reports that the USB-C implementation on iPhone 15 is just like an Android phone with none of the MFI requirements that Apple forced on Lightning.

I have an iPad Mini 6 with USB-C and it works flawlessly with the Diablo using a U-Green OTG cable and a number of other DAC/Amps, I will get an iPhone 15 in the next couple of months and expect that it will work exactly the same as the iPad.

Do you know if the lightning current limitation has also been exceeded?

 

[BS5711]

Do you know if the lightning current limitation has also been exceeded?

Below are screenshots of a comment from apple and a generic comment, appears that 4.5 watts at the normal USB 5 volts is the USB-C standard for current out of the device and what Apple say is available from the iPhone 15.

I could not find reliable information for Lightning but I believe 4.5 watts is well above what Lightning can provide.

 

[deanorthk]

It means though, that this output is limited to USB 3.0 Iphone, which is not what the "standard" Iphone 15 will get, as they are limited to USB2 feature.
But, thanks for the infos about the ipad and USBC feature, I had completly forgot that those devices already have usbc

Means I can order a cable with Forza audio without too much "what if?"

 

[BS5711]

It means though, that this output is limited to USB 3.0 Iphone, which is not what the "standard" Iphone 15 will get, as they are limited to USB2 feature.
But, thanks for the infos about the ipad and USBC feature, I had completly forgot that those devices already have usbc

Means I can order a cable with Forza audio without too much "what if?"

That seems to be the case but even 5 volts at 0.5 amps is 2.5 watts which is going to power most dongles etc very well.

If only the Pro models can output 4.5 watts at 3.0 specs, and that seems to be the case, that is still more than the maximum requirement of an iFi Go Bar which is one of the most demanding dongles.

Either will be well better than the Lightning iPhones which are limited to only 0.3 watts based on every one of several references I found.

Anyway, back to the Diablo !