[BryceS]

These 'glitch' issue is partially the Diablo seemingly running out of juice driving the headphones. The source of the issue may be the quality of the digital chain where there is a weak noise floor and an interference level that creates enough transients for the Diablo to run out of juice, when it shouldn't.

Case in point, a TT2 owner said his tt2 doesn't have enough juice to drive the Susvara coz it was clipping on his tracks. I asked for the tracks, and played it on my Hugo 2 and I didn't have any clipping/distorting issues with the Susvara being driven beyond my listening levels on the Hugo 2 because I have a good chain. And the Hugo 2 has an amplifier stage way weaker than the TT2.

?????

It only happens with one particular set of very low impedance and low sensitivity headphones. other less demanding headphones create no issue at all,

The severity of the “glitch” and the volume level that it happens at changes with the output power of the adapter, a small charger will do it at very obviously lower volume than a larger and higher output one. On battery power it doesn’t happen at all.

The “glitch” is a very distinct literal pause in sound for a very noticeable period of of time while the Diablo swaps back to battery and recovers, it isn’t a change in sound it is literally a pause in audible sound for a moment.

The “digital chain” is a DAP direct into the Diablo with a 6 inch long cable, no USB filters it also doesn’t matter which specific cable I use. I also does it on a coaxial SPDIF input from the DAP with a 6 inch long cable.

It is quite obviously a power supply issue.

 

[801evan]

The severity of the “glitch” and the volume level that it happens at changes with the output power of the adapter, a small charger will do it at very obviously lower volume

The battery doesn't enough capacity then as you are trying to use it when the battery doesn't have enough to function whilst still being charged by a low capacity charger. So yes its a power supply issue.

It seems quite apparent that the Diablo is outputting more current on Normal than Eco and more on Turbo than Normal at the same or even lower listening levels. Logically that will result in better bass performance on the higher gain settings despite that the volume is no different

Higher gain is just more distortion. Yes turbo consumes 1a of power. So it's understandable that you will have playback issues as the battery is drained and the charger lacks power. So yes it'll be outputting more current on Turbo on the power supply end but it will output more current to the headphones on low gain on the headphone output and would sound better on low gain on a good chain over any other modes.

 

[justanut]

The battery doesn't enough capacity then as you are trying to use it when the battery doesn't have enough to function whilst still being charged by a low capacity charger. So yes its a power supply issue.


Higher gain is just more distortion. Yes turbo consumes 1a of power. So it's understandable that you will have playback issues as the battery is drained and the charger lacks power. So yes it'll be outputting more current on Turbo on the power supply end but it will output more current to the headphones on low gain on the headphone output and would sound better on low gain on a good chain over any other modes.

I've been running mine as a line-out to burn in my tubes overnight daily, yet to encounter any power issues using the included iFi charger.

Had also used it to burn in my 650 previously on Turbo with no issues.

 

[Ficcion2]

I have noticed that when running my Diablo with a charger plugged in using my DCA Aeon Noire it will glitch momentarily on bass heavy sections of music where the charger output can’t provide the current output needed and it switches back to battery power.

I don’t mind that since I listen on battery only anyway, this was on a few occasions when the Diablo was nearly flat at the end of a day.

Anyway …. when using Eco mode it won’t glitch at all even full volume despite that is louder than comfortable listening. On Normal it will glitch at a lower volume than full volume on Eco and on Turbo mode it will glitch on a lower volume still.

It seems quite apparent that the Diablo is outputting more current on Normal than Eco and more on Turbo than Normal at the same or even lower listening levels. Logically that will result in better bass performance on the higher gain settings despite that the volume is no different.

I have also observed a sense of better dynamics on higher gain and generally run my Diablo on Normal at about 12 o’clock rather than Eco at say 2 o’clock.

Long story short ….. I agree.

I haven’t experienced any problems via batteries or using the included iPower wall wart. I ordered my Diablo on release day and haven't had any issues except that the paint chips easily.

I had a pair of Noires about a year ago and had no issues with them. I actually bought them to use for sub-bass music. I also paired the Diablo with the HE6SE using the EQ suggested by ASR which boosts the bass considerably but I never got any power cuts just distortion because the amp couldn't handle it. Awesome potential in those Hifiman though.

But its true the Diablo sounds better on turbo if your cans permit. The only issue is the battery lasts about 3 hours max with the Diana but at least its a good 3 hours.

 

[BryceS]

The battery doesn't enough capacity then as you are trying to use it when the battery doesn't have enough to function whilst still being charged by a low capacity charger. So yes its a power supply issue.


Higher gain is just more distortion. Yes turbo consumes 1a of power. So it's understandable that you will have playback issues as the battery is drained and the charger lacks power. So yes it'll be outputting more current on Turbo on the power supply end but it will output more current to the headphones on low gain on the headphone output and would sound better on low gain on a good chain over any other modes.

For what it matters ……

While I noticed the “glitch” issue when charging the Diablo with a low battery and listening I experimented later and the same thing would happen with a fully charged battery and the unit on charge.

With the power adapter supplying the power the Diablo would what I am calling “glitch” under high load but on battery only it would not.

So we agree it is a power supply issue but it isn’t a battery issue just one where some chargers used as desktop power supplies can’t keep up with the current demands of, in my case, 13 Ohm low efficiency planars.

That is all an aside as my comment was in response to a specific question about perceived sound improvement on different gain settings and I believe the behaviour on different chargers on different gain demonstrates that the Diablo is drawing more current on higher gain for the same volume level.

You say low gain will sound better by default than higher gain. I think not, the sound is in no way better on Eco than higher gain modes with headphones that need some power. That was also the observation of the poster who I was responding to.

I’ll leave others who understand the inner working of the Diablo to determine whether say 10 o’clock on Turbo results in more distortion than about 2 o’clock on Eco for the same volume level as you state it will. I’m not as clever as the ifI design engineers and I’ll put my trust that they understand how to build something that can be used at the higher output power the unit is capable of and still sound absolutely optimal !!

 

[BryceS]

I haven’t experienced any problems via batteries or using the …….

I had a pair of Noires about a year ago and had no issues with them. I actually bought ………

But its true the Diablo sounds better on turbo if your cans permit. The only issue is the battery lasts about 3 hours max with the Diana but at least its a good 3 hours.

How hard did you run the Aeon Noire on the Diablo ?

I’ve had two Diablos and have two pairs of DCA Aeons and both Diablos would actually cut out when run hard on bass heavy songs and both Aeons would cause the behaviour. This was at above sane listening levels, it was something I found out happens when auditioning the Diablo with the Aeons and pushing it hard for a short while to assess outright performance.

The units would both cut out if on battery and would need to be plugged in to reset them. If on power adapter the Diablos would “glitch” off momentarily with an audible pause in playback while it essentially reset and started again.

This is a known thing, I’ve seen comments about it here and elsewhere, almost always with very low impedance DCA headphones but also HEDDs if I recall correctly. When I enquired, ifI acknowledged that it was likely caused by the current limiter tripping with a headphone impedance below the Diablo 16 Ohm minimum rating causing a higher current draw than the Diablo was designed for.

Neither Diablo exhibited this behaviour on higher impedance headphones regardless of the volume levels. I’ve literally briefly run HD600 full volume on Turbo (with them not on my head as an experiment) with no issue at all.

 

[Ficcion2]

How hard did you run the Aeon Noire on the Diablo ?

I’ve had two Diablos and have two pairs of DCA Aeons and both Diablos would actually cut out when run hard on bass heavy songs and both Aeons would cause the behaviour. This was at above sane listening levels, it was something I found out happens when auditioning the Diablo with the Aeons and pushing it hard for a short while to assess outright performance.

The units would both cut out if on battery and would need to be plugged in to reset them. If on power adapter the Diablos would “glitch” off momentarily with an audible pause in playback while it essentially reset and started again.

This is a known thing, I’ve seen comments about it here and elsewhere, almost always with very low impedance DCA headphones but also HEDDs if I recall correctly. When I enquired, ifI acknowledged that it was likely caused by the current limiter tripping with a headphone impedance below the Diablo 16 Ohm minimum rating causing a higher current draw than the Diablo was designed for.

Neither Diablo exhibited this behaviour on higher impedance headphones regardless of the volume levels. I’ve literally briefly run HD600 full volume on Turbo (with them not on my head as an experiment) with no issue at all.

I never turn the volume beyond my comfortable listening levels.
I can understand testing the drivers for failure and also the components but I personally haven't had a need to do that.

I believe the DCA are around 13-14ohms which is right below the cut off I didn't even know was implemented.
The Aeons are deceivingly hard to driving considering their on the go marketing.

 

[BryceS]

I never turn the volume beyond my comfortable listening levels.
I can understand testing the drivers for failure and also the components but I personally haven't had a need to do that.

I believe the DCA are around 13-14ohms which is right below the cut off I didn't even know was implemented.
The Aeons are deceivingly hard to driving considering their on the go marketing.

Thanks for the response,

I was giving the Diablo a real work out with the Aeon only as I had previous issues with lower power amps distorting badly with the Aeon so I wanted to know the Diablo has some headroom above what the Aeon require for normal listening levels before spending the not inconsiderable asking price !

Yes the Aeon are deceiving, they can get loud and sound OK off a modest powered amp but can really make use of a lot more power than just that needed for just achieving high volume.

 

[whitedragem]

For what it matters ……

While I noticed the “glitch” issue when charging the Diablo with a low battery and listening I experimented later and the same thing would happen with a fully charged battery and the unit on charge.

With the power adapter supplying the power the Diablo would what I am calling “glitch” under high load but on battery only it would not.

So we agree it is a power supply issue but it isn’t a battery issue just one where some chargers used as desktop power supplies can’t keep up with the current demands of, in my case, 13 Ohm low efficiency planars.

That is all an aside as my comment was in response to a specific question about perceived sound improvement on different gain settings and I believe the behaviour on different chargers on different gain demonstrates that the Diablo is drawing more current on higher gain for the same volume level.

You say low gain will sound better by default than higher gain. I think not, the sound is in no way better on Eco than higher gain modes with headphones that need some power. That was also the observation of the poster who I was responding to.

I’ll leave others who understand the inner working of the Diablo to determine whether say 10 o’clock on Turbo results in more distortion than about 2 o’clock on Eco for the same volume level as you state it will. I’m not as clever as the ifI design engineers and I’ll put my trust that they understand how to build something that can be used at the higher output power the unit is capable of and still sound absolutely optimal !!

Absolutely ‘a thing’,..
the ’gain settings’ we are referring to are not the same as software gain adjusts, that DO move equipment into less accurate playback territory (and the spec sheets regarding said parts will sometimes show that too), but, in the Diablo I believe we are changing the operating parameters..
I could see this with an early unit that failed on me.. (the second battery circuit (my guess is it is a clever battery design that has two isolated areas OR the way the amps function internally literally double up their usage circuits (I didn’t design/don’t know)) when in ECO mode it ran flawlessly, as it was using the battery part that was ‘fine’, but it basically required being plugged in to get the full power, at which point the ‘higher fueled’ modes (normal and turbo) could operate..
I do not feel it operates in class A mode in ECO
There are audible differences between Normal and Turbo (initially I thought this was due to my ‘breaking in‘ the Diablo in Single Ended mode, and then when I switched to Balanced mode use, logically, ‘some of the circuit(s)‘ hadn’t been broken in…., may have led to some ‘slight differences’ in the sound profile found in each mode…
But it is ‘a real thing’ and is a reason that users may wish to grab an IEMatch product, as some genres I prefer in Turbo and others in Normal playback mode… There are differences in edge of notes and blackness/soundstage (whilst soundfield seems the same in both, the slight ‘cues’ regarding note edges DOES make a difference to enjoying some genres of music..
The headphones I run from the Diablo, seem to have the same usage spots on the dial (2pm Eco/12o’clock Normal/10am Turbo).. and I do not agree that there is a diminished sound quality, necessarily, between Normal and Turbo, unless one prefers Normal mode operation, then that argument would be subjectively true.

Definitely a different beast when run ‘above ECO’ though, and I haven’t used ECO mode in more than a year… (due to the sound profiles that each mode gives)
Normal and Turbo is where the Diablo shines…

 

[801evan]

The headphones I run from the Diablo, seem to have the same usage spots on the dial (2pm Eco/12o’clock Normal/10am Turbo).. and I do not agree that their is a diminished sound quality, necessarily, between Normal and Turbo, unless one prefers Normal mode operation, then that argument would be subjectively true

It's fundamental that higher gain introduces distortion. If one doesn't hear the diminished sound quality, that's subjective.

-------

It's expected if you are driving current hungry phones and you are changing the battery that it won't function fully as the cells are trying to be charged. So there is no issue.

I've had the Hedd and Aeon's 2 and it didn't cut out with the Diablo.

 

[whitedragem]

It's fundamental that higher gain introduces distortion. If one doesn't hear the diminished sound quality, that's subjective.

-------

It's expected if you are driving current hungry phones and you are changing the battery that it won't function fully as the cells are trying to be charged. So there is no issue.

I've had the Hedd and Aeon's 2 and it didn't cut out with the Diablo.

Sure, but 'higher gain' isn't how the Diablo is putting out more power in the 'more powerful modes' necessarily, hence why the battery usage times change so dramatically,.. I think the Diablo team might be able to give the definitive answer on this,.. but I believe we would find that the Diablo is engaging more circuits and 'doing more' (and is actually more powerful for legitimate reasons); if this were any of a metric tonne of other devices I have lying around (that I use only in LOW gain modes for the aforementioned reason) then I would believe that is why the sound profile changes,.. but this isn't the case with the Diablo... It is comparing lemons and oranges- not the same products.. many paths to the summit, the Diablo running in ECO power is a power saving method that obviously turns off a lot of internal circuitry.. Turbo I feel is the 'true Class A' mode operation, and Normal, somewhere in between.. if Normal is 'full Class A', then perhaps the Turbo mode is a gain boost,,.. but that is a heinous power jump to achieve that... (not likely in my eyes)

 

[801evan]

Sure, but 'higher gain' isn't how the Diablo is putting out more power in the 'more powerful modes' necessarily, hence why the battery usage times change so dramatically,.. I think the Diablo team might be able to give the definitive answer on this,.. but I believe we would find that the Diablo is engaging more circuits and 'doing more' (and is actually more powerful for legitimate reasons); if this were any of a metric tonne of other devices I have lying around (that I use only in LOW gain modes for the aforementioned reason) then I would believe that is why the sound profile changes,.. but this isn't the case with the Diablo... It is comparing lemons and oranges- not the same products.. many paths to the summit, the Diablo running in ECO power is a power saving method that obviously turns off a lot of internal circuitry.. Turbo I feel is the 'true Class A' mode operation, and Normal, somewhere in between.. if Normal is 'full Class A', then perhaps the Turbo mode is a gain boost,,.. but that is a heinous power jump to achieve that... (not likely in my eyes)

Diablo turbo is constant 1a, which is a lot.
Eco is .4a. So yes, turbo consumes a lot of battery power with or without load from the HP. Eco doesn't turn off "a lot of circuit" as you assume. That's not how it works....

 

[iFi audio]

When I enquired, ifI acknowledged that it was likely caused by the current limiter tripping with a headphone impedance below the Diablo 16 Ohm minimum rating causing a higher current draw than the Diablo was designed for.

Neither Diablo exhibited this behaviour on higher impedance headphones regardless of the volume levels. I’ve literally briefly run HD600 full volume on Turbo (with them not on my head as an experiment) with no issue at all.

That might be the case and I'll ask our R&D whether loads of 16 Ohms or lower are acceptable. Thanks!

 

[BryceS]

That might be the case and I'll ask our R&D whether loads of 16 Ohms or lower are acceptable. Thanks!

Thank you ifI, a more considered response would be greatly appreciated.

As indicated the Diablo cut out only occurs with DCA Aeons which are rated at 13 Ohm and around low 90 sensitivity. I imagine very low impedance loads would be OK if they were an IEM that required very low output power but it seems that the combination of very low impedance (20% below the indicated 16 Ohm minimum) and and low efficiency create a substantial current requirement.

I think the folks I messaged with pretty much just repeated the below from your website and said the “impedance was below spec.”

 

[iFi audio]

As indicated the Diablo cut out only occurs with DCA Aeons which are rated at 13 Ohm and around low 90 sensitivity. I imagine very low impedance loads would be OK if they were an IEM that required very low output power but it seems that the combination of very low impedance (20% below the indicated 16 Ohm minimum) and and low efficiency create a substantial current requirement.

I think the folks I messaged with pretty much just repeated the below from your website and said the “impedance was below spec.”

Our support staff responded with the correct answer. DCA Aeon headphones are a load below 16 Ohms and not particularly sensitive on top of that. Nonetheless this feedback was passed to our staff, so shortly we should know more. Thanks!