[ProjectDenz]

A new contender enters the ring! Why didn't the JH13 wow you as much as the ER4S?

 
I guess it was because of the massive price difference between the the two. I probably over exaggerated as the JH13 was a little more detailed if memory serves me correctly, however, I felt massive diminishing returns with the JH13.

I like the bass presentation on the ER4S better because if my memory serves me correctly the JH13 has a slightly boosted mid-bass. The ER4S just sounds more intimate as well with its small soundstage. 

 

[JohnDG]

Want to pick up the ER4s for 9 hour flights I will be taking pretty often. I was attracted by their isolation at first, but am convinced after hearing the history and how they have stood the test of time. Unfortunately I can't spend too much more on an amp(under 100), and I hear the 4S needs one to drive them. Any suggestions? How are they comfort wise? Thanks

 

[Hutnicks]

Price doesn't always indicate sonething is the best. I've had the 4r, pfe232 and ie800 for a while now. None of them sound as good as the er4s. And those are roughly $500, $609 and $1000.

 
Indeed it does not. However the expectation is that it should. There is good reason I have not replaced the ER4S in over two decades. Somwhere along the line though some drastic improvement in the industry has to occur just as the ER4 itself came out of nowhere.

 

[luisdent]

Indeed it does not. However the expectation is that it should. There is good reason I have not replaced the ER4S in over two decades. Somwhere along the line though some drastic improvement in the industry has to occur just as the ER4 itself came out of nowhere.

I'm always on the look out, but like knowing I have one of the best out there...

 

[dnullify]

Want to pick up the ER4s for 9 hour flights I will be taking pretty often. I was attracted by their isolation at first, but am convinced after hearing the history and how they have stood the test of time. Unfortunately I can't spend too much more on an amp(under 100), and I hear the 4S needs one to drive them. Any suggestions? How are they comfort wise? Thanks

Check out the ER4-pt if you're concerned. It's the ER4P, with an included p-s adapter. Whatever DAP you have should drive them as is, and you can use the adapter when you get an amp.

 

[mymymyopie]

Price comparisons are not MSRP, or don't have to be. I bought the ER4P (had a P to S cable from a past use) for $165 used, in perfect shape. And if you get a 20 percent discount on the JH13 FP (it's not clear here other than SGS if anyone has the JH13 or the JH13 FP. There is a difference), that makes them just under $900 with shipping (though extra for impressions, price varies of course).
 
So the price gap is variable. I love the ER4P/S with the Comply Ts100 medium tips and red filters via the C&C BH amp ($99) and iPod Classic using LOD cable. But I also am hankering for the JH13 FP, with discount. And actually, the ER4 sounds very good from an iPhone 5 (iOS7) without and amp (I do use Accudio app to tip the bass just a wee bit).

 

[luisdent]

Price comparisons are not MSRP, or don't have to be. I bought the ER4P (had a P to S cable from a past use) for $165 used, in perfect shape. And if you get a 20 percent discount on the JH13 FP (it's not clear here other than SGS if anyone has the JH13 or the JH13 FP. There is a difference), that makes them just under $900 with shipping (though extra for impressions, price varies of course).

So the price gap is variable. I love the ER4P/S with the Comply Ts100 medium tips and red filters via the C&C BH amp ($99) and iPod Classic using LOD cable. But I also am hankering for the JH13 FP, with discount. And actually, the ER4 sounds very good from an iPhone 5 (iOS7) without and amp (I do use Accudio app to tip the bass just a wee bit).

I've been tweaking my bass eq slowly and think I've found a really nice level/curve...

 

[mymymyopie]

Using an iPhone app? Mine is very basic, nothing fancy.

 

[Jupiterknight]

I'm always on the look out, but like knowing I have one of the best out there...

 
You have and it is not always the money/price that decides whats best for you

 

[groovyd]

  Price comparisons are not MSRP, or don't have to be. I bought the ER4P (had a P to S cable from a past use) for $165 used, in perfect shape. And if you get a 20 percent discount on the JH13 FP (it's not clear here other than SGS if anyone has the JH13 or the JH13 FP. There is a difference), that makes them just under $900 with shipping (though extra for impressions, price varies of course).
 
So the price gap is variable. I love the ER4P/S with the Comply Ts100 medium tips and red filters via the C&C BH amp ($99) and iPod Classic using LOD cable. But I also am hankering for the JH13 FP, with discount. And actually, the ER4 sounds very good from an iPhone 5 (iOS7) without and amp (I do use Accudio app to tip the bass just a wee bit).

 
Does Accudio work as poorly for you as it does for me?  Have no shuffle and missing most modes of the normal music app like genius, etc.  Also it is very slow to switch to the music page and back to playing now and often crashes after a few songs.  I really wish Apple's own music app just had a better EQ with a database of presets available for different headphones.  Accudio was a waste of money to me. Also cannot change the names of the presets and the font is so small if the headphones name is long like the ER4 is.

 

[luisdent]

Using an iPhone app? Mine is very basic, nothing fancy.

I'm using my fuze, but I'm sure I could easily replicate it on the denon eq app for iPod or similar app. With other iPods you're out of luck.

 

[JohnDG]

Is the 4s a big enough jump in SQ that I should really push for the amp? Thanks

 

[shotgunshane]

Got a chance to do a little back and forth with the ER-4S and JH13 this morning.  
 
From memory, the JH13 isn't too far off the UERM.  They both have peaks at 10k but the JH13 peak is a good bit smaller.  The other peak the JH13 has is at 6k and I believe the UERM was closer to 5k.  The other main difference is in bass.  I'd say the bass curve of the JH13 would follow a similar look to the UERM but add 2, possibly 3, db's evenly everywhere. Rin's measurements of the UERM show a small dip around 3k that I do not hear in the JH13. The overall effect is that the UERM sounded much brighter to me and less warm.
 
Switching from the JH13 to the ER-4S takes a little while to adjust to both fit and drastic change in staging.  The JH13 sounds much larger, more enveloping and a good bit thicker.  The ER-4S bass quality is superb and bass detail is very easy to distinguish.  It truly is designed to let you hear every nuance on the recording; however if you enjoy a more live instrument feel to your presentation, it just doesn't have the palpable kick of the JH13.  The increased overall bass on the JH13 definitely gives you more of the live venue flavor and what many term a more natural presentation.  While all the low end details are still there, the trade off is that they aren't laid bare like they are in the ER-4S and becomes more about feeling and emotion than technical prowess.
 
Treble sounds just a hair brighter, just a hair, in the JH13.  I think this is most likely due to the 10k peak but it however remains very fatigue and sibilance free.  In contrast the ER-4S treble seems a little softer in note and, to me, silky smooth; so the JH13 shows upper range details easier, which helps for better imaging.  
 
Regarding midrange, I don't find the midrange laid back on the JH13, as it has very good presence from 1k through 3k but because the ER-4S doesn't have the bass presence of the JH13, it sounds mid centric immediately after switching between the two iems. After several minutes of brain adjustment, things start to even out on the ER-4S; however I do feel like they are just a bit tilted towards the upper mid.
 
As for instrument timbre, I like somethings better on each phone.  I like treble shimmer on cymbals a bit better on the ER-4S but I greatly prefer distortion guitar on the JH13.  And while I absolutely love the bass detail of the ER-4S, the JH13 gets my head bobbing and draws me into the driving beat of the drum kit.  Both really are superb with vocal clarity and detail; the freqphase thing really seems to work well here.
 
The JH13 is by far the most comfortable custom I've had and is the most comfortable iem I own.  The ER-4S fit is fairly comfortable in its own right but takes a minute or two after insertion to adjust.  Once settled I don't have any issues using the gray trips; however I would love to find the ER-4S sound in a silicone ciem.

 

[robm321]

^ Thanks for the comparisons. Seems to align with comparisons I've read before. Considering the massive jump in price for the JH13s, it doesn't seem worth it. Although, that hasn't stopped me from upgrading before 

 

 

[goodvibes]

Trust me, his 13s aren't at their best yet. Doesn't mean the 4s isn't a great deal but value is always relative. I think the 4s and HF2 are great buys at any time. I personally like them best with the triple flanges that I find too uncomfortable.

 I also believe in the bass rising from 100hz to 20hz as sounding more like free air linear but that's always debatable.