[alpha421]

Yes, well done SGS.  Very nice read.

 

[goodvibes]

   
I guess it was because of the massive price difference between the the two. I probably over exaggerated as the JH13 was a little more detailed if memory serves me correctly, however, I felt massive diminishing returns with the JH13.

I like the bass presentation on the ER4S better because if my memory serves me correctly the JH13 has a slightly boosted mid-bass. The ER4S just sounds more intimate as well with its small soundstage. 

 
Remember these are re-shelled pre freqphase jh13s. We need to be specific when doing these compares so that we're all speaking the same language. It really doesn't relate as well as Shanes impressions which I suspect may change slightly over time.

 

[gnarlsagan]

  Got a chance to do a little back and forth with the ER-4S and JH13 this morning.  
 
From memory, the JH13 isn't too far off the UERM.  They both have peaks at 10k but the JH13 peak is a good bit smaller.  The other peak the JH13 has is at 6k and I believe the UERM was closer to 5k.  The other main difference is in bass.  I'd say the bass curve of the JH13 would follow a similar look to the UERM but add 2, possibly 3, db's evenly everywhere. Rin's measurements of the UERM show a small dip around 3k that I do not hear in the JH13. The overall effect is that the UERM sounded much brighter to me and less warm.
 
Switching from the JH13 to the ER-4S takes a little while to adjust to both fit and drastic change in staging.  The JH13 sounds much larger, more enveloping and a good bit thicker.  The ER-4S bass quality is superb and bass detail is very easy to distinguish.  It truly is designed to let you hear every nuance on the recording; however if you enjoy a more live instrument feel to your presentation, it just doesn't have the palpable kick of the JH13.  The increased overall bass on the JH13 definitely gives you more of the live venue flavor and what many term a more natural presentation.  While all the low end details are still there, the trade off is that they aren't laid bare like they are in the ER-4S and becomes more about feeling and emotion than technical prowess.
 
Treble sounds just a hair brighter, just a hair, in the JH13.  I think this is most likely due to the 10k peak but it however remains very fatigue and sibilance free.  In contrast the ER-4S treble seems a little softer in note and, to me, silky smooth; so the JH13 shows upper range details easier, which helps for better imaging.  
 
Regarding midrange, I don't find the midrange laid back on the JH13, as it has very good presence from 1k through 3k but because the ER-4S doesn't have the bass presence of the JH13, it sounds mid centric immediately after switching between the two iems. After several minutes of brain adjustment, things start to even out on the ER-4S; however I do feel like they are just a bit tilted towards the upper mid.
 
As for instrument timbre, I like somethings better on each phone.  I like treble shimmer on cymbals a bit better on the ER-4S but I greatly prefer distortion guitar on the JH13.  And while I absolutely love the bass detail of the ER-4S, the JH13 gets my head bobbing and draws me into the driving beat of the drum kit.  Both really are superb with vocal clarity and detail; the freqphase thing really seems to work well here.
 
The JH13 is by far the most comfortable custom I've had and is the most comfortable iem I own.  The ER-4S fit is fairly comfortable in its own right but takes a minute or two after insertion to adjust.  Once settled I don't have any issues using the gray trips; however I would love to find the ER-4S sound in a silicone ciem.

 
Thank you! This review sounds so spot on. I experienced some similar differences when a/b'ing the UERM and ER4S. Going from one to the other makes the ER4S sound mid-centric for a few minutes, but bass detail is just more apparent. The extra, evenly spaced bass does exactly as you say; it loses a bit of definition for feeling. Sounds like JH improves on the UERM in the mids and treble though. I think the 5k peak you mention on the UERM moves around according to fit, because the peak for me was more around 7k. How much warmer are the mids of the JH13 compared to the ER4S?
 
Also, did you end up getting the red filters? Curious to see how that might change things. They take the edge off the upper mids, but I end up giving ~7k a little 1-2dB eq bump.  

 

[luisdent]

Also, did you end up getting the red filters? Curious to see how that might change things. They take the edge off the upper mids, but I end up giving ~7k a little 1-2dB eq bump.  

I was going to ask this too. Reds?

 

[_js_]

So, I haven't read all 185 pages of this thread--but I have read about 30 of them--first 5 pages, then the last 25, or thereabouts, and I'm thinking seriously about getting the ER-4S 's to use with my iPhone 5S.  I have an Elago Outfit Matrix case on my iP5S and it is mostly open on the bottom, near the headphone out jack, but does extend up from the back about a milimeter.  I'm worried about whether or not the 4S 1/8" plug will hit the edge of the case, which would prevent it from working.
 
Does anyone know if this would happen?  (Or alternately, can anyone tell me the exact diameter of the plastic base part of the plug, right at the interface between the 1/8" TRS and the base?)  And if it does interfere, what can be done beside not using a case?  I suppose I could trim off a little bit of the case where it would interfere, but I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
 
As I understand it so far, an iPod or an iPhone will drive the 4S loud enough except in rare cases on quiet sections of classical music recordings.  I also understand that the 4S doesn't NEED an amp and will sound good straight out of an iPhone.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, or if people think the 4PT would be a better choice for use straight out of an iPhone 5S.
 
Very enjoyable thread!  Thanks everyone!

 

[alpha421]

If you're not sure and don't want to fuss with portable amplification.  I would go with the ER4PT and get the adapter to get closer to the ER4S.  The ER4PT was specifically designed to be used with smartphones and DAPs.  The later, as I understand it was originally designed for professional use where amplification is common or a must.  In my case with my Galaxy S and the ER4S, it needs external amplification to make me smile, I don't without.
 
Of course, take it all with a grain of salt.   
 
Almost forgot, with my Otter case, I had to carve it out with an exacto knife to make room for the wide base plug.

 

[shotgunshane]

How much warmer are the mids of the JH13 compared to the ER4S?[/SIZE]

Also, did you end up getting the red filters? Curious to see how that might change things. They take the edge off the upper mids, but I end up giving ~7k a little 1-2dB eq bump.  

I'll get back to you on the mid warmth.

I think the filters were delivered today, so hopefully I can try them in the next day or two.

 

[gnarlsagan]

  So, I haven't read all 185 pages of this thread--but I have read about 30 of them--first 5 pages, then the last 25, or thereabouts, and I'm thinking seriously about getting the ER-4S 's to use with my iPhone 5S.  I have an Elago Outfit Matrix case on my iP5S and it is mostly open on the bottom, near the headphone out jack, but does extend up from the back about a milimeter.  I'm worried about whether or not the 4S 1/8" plug will hit the edge of the case, which would prevent it from working.
 
Does anyone know if this would happen?  (Or alternately, can anyone tell me the exact diameter of the plastic base part of the plug, right at the interface between the 1/8" TRS and the base?)  And if it does interfere, what can be done beside not using a case?  I suppose I could trim off a little bit of the case where it would interfere, but I'm hoping it isn't an issue.
 
As I understand it so far, an iPod or an iPhone will drive the 4S loud enough except in rare cases on quiet sections of classical music recordings.  I also understand that the 4S doesn't NEED an amp and will sound good straight out of an iPhone.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, or if people think the 4PT would be a better choice for use straight out of an iPhone 5S.
 
Very enjoyable thread!  Thanks everyone!

 
I disagree with alpha on the need for an amp with the iPhone 5S, (although one might be needed with the Galaxy S, I have no idea). If the 5S is anywhere close to the measurements of the iPhone 5 here, then it should be more power than the ER4S would ever need. I'm not too great at the math yet, but to me it looks like the the iPhone 5 puts out twice the voltage of the Fuze, which can drive the ER4S to a 114+ dB peak. So the iPhone 5 should go even louder than that, which should permanently damage your hearing in less than 15 minutes. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 
 
Also I just measured the diameter of the base plug at 7.5mm. Trimming a mm or two off of the case if necessary would probably be pretty easy and unnoticeable for the most part.

 

[_js_]

I just measured and 7.5mm would definitely interfere. But like you say, I can easily (for now) trim the case--or remove it for listening. Long term--once I was sure I liked them--I think I'd solder on a thinner, straight 1/8" stereo plug. I'm pretty good with a soldering iron so that would be a trivial task--unless I'm missing something!

 

[vwinter]

Oh god, does the WR4S cable use that evil box shaped L-Plug that should be killed with fire?

The most uselessly large plug EVER. I had to use a handpiece to widen the bore of my last cases headphone opening for that damned plug.

I will never let this go in case you're wondering.

 

[shotgunshane]

Not sure about the WR4S but the newer ER-4 should have a more case friendly connector. I have the boxier older one.

 

[vwinter]

Not sure about the WR4S but the newer ER-4 should have a more case friendly connector. I have the boxier older one.

LOL I can't type.

Good to know for people that Etymotic has some common sense.

 

[luisdent]

I just measured and 7.5mm would definitely interfere. But like you say, I can easily (for now) trim the case--or remove it for listening. Long term--once I was sure I liked them--I think I'd solder on a thinner, straight 1/8" stereo plug. I'm pretty good with a soldering iron so that would be a trivial task--unless I'm missing something!

It may not be ideal, but what about something like this? http://sewelldirect.com/35-mm-Audio-Extension-Cable-3-inch.asp?gclid=COOo45TM9rkCFYWe4AodMVcAdA

As for the ety plug, I actually prefer it over any other. Call me crazy, but I don't like straight plugs anymore, and before the er4s I thought they were dumb for using an L shaped plug. The er4s may be larger, but it really feels like a rock and with everything I have, it feels like it has less stress on the jacks and is less likely to get snagged. I find it easier to pocket carry a player with it as well as simply hold a player with it.

I do realize it is probably worse for fitting cases, but I never use cases on any of my devices. I slide them into sleeves i make. 6 year old ipod has zero scratches. Not even a mark. And I never drop my players. If you want protection though and need headphones I could see the jack being a bit large... Perhaps the cable above? Or you could buy a different cable for the er4s...

 

[vwinter]

I dropped my last dap, read: phone, 1,000,007 times, give or take zero. The case was a great investment. These days it just seems like shooting yourself in the foot to not at least offer a case compatible cable.

 

[shotgunshane]

I believe the newer cable may look like this but you should contact ety and ask: