[FieldingMellish]

I'm interested as well, but that damned great Cowboom deal having gotten HF3's for around $60.00 spoiled me to no end. I'll have a hard time paying the regular price for ER4 series.

 

[AstroTurf]

eBay is your Friend...
 
Quote:

I'm interested as well, but that damned great Cowboom deal having gotten HF3's for around $60.00 spoiled me to no end. I'll have a hard time paying the regular price for ER4 series.

 

[Sinocelt]

Quote:

I suppose it would.  I only wear my etys while I am sitting down although I just checked and it seems pretty secure.

 
I don't know.... I did wear the cable of my HF5 over my ears, on the go and at the gym, and sometimes the cable stayed put and sometimes it didn't. At its best, this solution was neither very practical nor very elegant. Since the ER-4 cable can be switched, I don't understand why Etymotic doesn't offer an alternative option. It wouldn't have to be complicated: just a different angle for the stress relief.
 
 

My etys are pushing 10 years old so maybe my cable is just super flexible and soft which helps it stay in place.

 
Wow. 

 The HF5 is far from being that resilient. 
 
 
 

I've seen some mods where people use the flexible tubing for hearing aid cables and use it to secure the phones in place over the ear.

 
I've tried ear guides (I went through loops to order them from Phonak). Still not the most practical, most elegant solution imaginable.

 

[qing]

Recently got 8As from heiraudio,
 
but still find myself going back to the er4p for some casual and light hearing that is easy on the ears.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

Recently got 8As from heiraudio,
 
but still find myself going back to the er4p for some casual and light hearing that is easy on the ears.

I compared the Heir 3.Ai and 4.Ai's to my 15 year old Ety ER-4S's. I have to say, as good as the Heir's were, the ER-4S's still had much more detail and clarity. Not nearly as much bass though.
 
How do the 8.A's compare? I have a pair ordered, but am concerned that I will be missing the detail of the ER-4S's in exchange for more bass.
 
(Nevermind qing, I found your review of the 8.A's. Great review. I am looking forward to comparing the 8.A's to the ER4's in a month or so.)

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  I compared the Heir 3.Ai and 4.Ai's to my 15 year old Ety ER-4S's. I have to say, as good as the Heir's were, the ER-4S's still had much more detail and clarity. Not nearly as much bass though.

 
Clarity, yes, transparency, yes --- but detail? I beg to differ.

 

[gnarlsagan]

I compared the Heir 3.Ai and 4.Ai's to my 15 year old Ety ER-4S's. I have to say, as good as the Heir's were, the ER-4S's still had much more detail and clarity. Not nearly as much bass though.

How do the 8.A's compare? I have a pair ordered, but am concerned that I will be missing the detail of the ER-4S's in exchange for more bass.

(Nevermind qing, I found your review of the 8.A's. Great review. I am looking forward to comparing the 8.A's to the ER4's in a month or so.)

The 4.ai has much more bass than the ER4S? I thought it was tuned to be neutral.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

 
Clarity, yes, transparency, yes --- but detail? I beg to differ.

To me, the 4.Ai's sounded like the details in the highs were "smoothed out" thereby having less detail. When I switched back to the ER-4's, it sounded like a veil had been lifted off my ears and I could hear how much detail was really in the recordings. I could hear individual voices and instruments better. Maybe that's "clarity" vs. detail? I have to admit I am not sure about the difference. Can you have more clarity and less detail? Forgive my ignorance. I have not auditioned a lot of headphones: Heir 4.Ai, 3.Ai, Stax 407/323 amp, Koss PortaPro is about it.

 

[Sinocelt]

Quote:

The 4.ai has much more bass than the ER4S? I thought it was tuned to be neutral.

 
Well, the 4.A has much more bass than the ER4S and is more neutral to my ears.
 
I haven't made a chart for the ER4S, but I've made one for the HF5 (same drivers, not hand-matched, different impedance, a bit more bass) and I hear it start to roll off as early as 125 Hz. I also hear a rather sharp increase in volume starting at 1.5 kHz, up to nearly 12 kHz.
 
To my ears, the Atrio (MG7) is a lot flatter.
 
Difference between 45 Hz and 12 kHz:

1. HF5: 27 dB 
2. MG7: 12 dB 
3. 4.A: 21 dB 

 
Greatest difference:

1. HF5: 36 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 8 KHz
2. MG7: 15 dB between 45 Hz and 2 kHz 
3. 4.A: 21 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 4 kHz / 12 kHz

 
This test was conducted with a DACport at max volume, starting from -60 dB at 1 kHz.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

  The 4.ai has much more bass than the ER4S? I thought it was tuned to be neutral.

 
Yes, quite a bit more. The boost probably ranges from ~3-6 dB, depending on where you're measuring.
 
Quote:

To me, the 4.Ai's sounded like the details in the highs were "smoothed out" thereby having less detail. When I switched back to the ER-4's, it sounded like a veil had been lifted off my ears and I could hear how much detail was really in the recordings. I could hear individual voices and instruments better. Maybe that's "clarity" vs. detail? I have to admit I am not sure about the difference. Can you have more clarity and less detail? Forgive my ignorance. I have not auditioned a lot of headphones: Heir 4.Ai, 3.Ai, Stax 407/323 amp, Koss PortaPro is about it.

 
I agree that the highs sound smoother, but I'd say you're not hearing more 'detail' i.e. more subtle elements of the music, so yes, what you're hearing is better transparency and therefore clarity. I don't feel the ER4S is more revealing. I personally feel there is more than one way to impart detail; for example, I think the 4.Ai (given a good enough fit) does a good job of lifting up the fundamental frequencies of instruments and voices in the lower and main midrange without making things sound too cluttered or muffled. The ER4 can sound a bit empty in this region, although it's not terrible (at all). As I've mentioned in several other threads, and probably also in this one, the 4.Ai's big issue is the unavoidable notch and spike at 3.6 and 6 kHz respectively. The 6 kHz peak actually enhances clarity, but at the detriment of transparency. The notch at 3.6 kHz will slightly squash the height of the soundstage, amongst other things. I too prefer the ER4 midrange for true accuracy, but the 4.A is probably a more enjoyable listen.

 

[anoxy]

As a fellow ER4 user, I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on the 3A.i. I just ordered a pair of IE80s as a companion IEM for my Etys, but I've been having second thoughts after reading so many positive things about the 3ai. I love my ER4 for the typical Etymotic fan reasons, but I'd like an IEM to compliment them for the more upbeat music that will make me want to get up and dance. The IE80 seem like they'll be the ticket, but with this new kid on the block 3A.i, I'm second guessing my order.

 

[darinf]

Quote:

As a fellow ER4 user, I'd be interested in hearing your opinions on the 3A.i. I just ordered a pair of IE80s as a companion IEM for my Etys, but I've been having second thoughts after reading so many positive things about the 3ai. I love my ER4 for the typical Etymotic fan reasons, but I'd like an IEM to compliment them for the more upbeat music that will make me want to get up and dance. The IE80 seem like they'll be the ticket, but with this new kid on the block 3A.i, I'm second guessing my order.

I have never heard the IE80's, so I can't comment on those. But for me, I did not really enjoy the 3.Ai's. To me even though they have a ton more bass, the highs were just too harsh and sibilant for me. As I've said before, maybe I am just so used to listening to the ER4's for the last 15 years that I have no tolerance for harsh highs or lacking detail. I am also used to not having much bass. If you like the sound of the ER4's, I would go with the 4A.i way over the 3.Ai. I really couldn't listen to the 3A.i's. And the 4.Ai's have a lot more bass than the ER4's.
 
Of course, many other people love the 3A.i's, so take my opinion with a grain of salt...

 

[gnarlsagan]

Quote:

 
Well, the 4.A has much more bass than the ER4S and is more neutral to my ears.
 
I haven't made a chart for the ER4S, but I've made one for the HF5 (same drivers, not hand-matched, different impedance, a bit more bass) and I hear it start to roll off as early as 125 Hz. I also hear a rather sharp increase in volume starting at 1.5 kHz, up to nearly 12 kHz.
 
To my ears, the Atrio (MG7) is a lot flatter.
 
Difference between 45 Hz and 12 kHz:

1. HF5: 27 dB 
2. MG7: 12 dB 
3. 4.A: 21 dB 

 
Greatest difference:

1. HF5: 36 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 8 KHz
2. MG7: 15 dB between 45 Hz and 2 kHz 
3. 4.A: 21 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 4 kHz / 12 kHz

 
This test was conducted with a DACport at max volume, starting from -60 dB at 1 kHz.

 
Wow that's quite a test. Thanks for sharing. It's odd that your findings don't agree with the measurements of these iems. The hf5 should decrease after 2kHz. I wonder if the ER4S would fare better than the hf5 in your test.

 

[tomscy2000]

Quote:

I have never heard the IE80's, so I can't comment on those. But for me, I did not really enjoy the 3.Ai's. To me even though they have a ton more bass, the highs were just too harsh and sibilant for me. As I've said before, maybe I am just so used to listening to the ER4's for the last 15 years that I have no tolerance for harsh highs or lacking detail. I am also used to not having much bass. If you like the sound of the ER4's, I would go with the 4A.i way over the 3.Ai. I really couldn't listen to the 3A.i's. And the 4.Ai's have a lot more bass than the ER4's.
 
Of course, many other people love the 3A.i's, so take my opinion with a grain of salt...

 
I didn't like the 3.Ai either. My opinion of it is along the same lines as you... However, I do enjoy the 4.Ai --- well, namely the 4.A, which has the advantage of the full custom shell. People shouldn't complain about the amount of bass in the 4.Ai/4.A unless they're bassheads.
 
Quote:

  Wow that's quite a test. Thanks for sharing. It's odd that your findings don't agree with the measurements of these iems. The hf5 should decrease after 2kHz. I wonder if the ER4S would fare better than the hf5 in your test.

 
That's because he looks like this (trust me, I've seen him):

​

 

[davidsh]

Just a question..
I have got the iphone 4 and the etymotic hf5 arrived just yesterday. Also to me, the etymotics are great, actually fantastic, and they are my first somewhat expensive iems.
Anyways how loud can i turn up the iphone whilst not damaging my ears, anybody got any experience with these iems?
For those who don't know, the hf5's have got an impedance of only 16 ohms, and a sensitivity of 105 dB.