[CraftyClown]

 
Yes we are. The pricing is based on the warranty eligibility of your current ER4s (in warranty makes the price $225, out of warranty is $275). In order to qualify for the $225, a proof of purchase is required, otherwise you'd still be eligible for the $275, provided you can send back your original unit.
 
I haven't seen Dave yet. He works slightly different hours than I do. There's always the possibility that he's at the Cubs parade.

 
Thanks Rick,
 
One last question, can I get the out of warranty replacement sent from one of your UK distributors? If not, from my calculations there probably won't be much of a saving if any, compared to purchasing brand new in the UK, due to the cost of shipping my old Etys to the US,  then customs fees, vat and finally shipping back to the UK

 

[BartSimpson1976]

  There's always the possibility that he's at the Cubs parade.

 
Once every 108 years is excusable.....

 

[luisdent]

Some (non audiophile) thoughts after much time spent comparing the ER4P and the XR.

The XRs do have a "smoother" sound.  I feel like they're more... polished.  The music sounds a bit better mastered using them.  For example the treble in some songs seems less harsh, smoother to listen to with the XR as compared to the ER4P.

However.  I'm feeling that the ER4P is more balanced.  The bass in some songs with the XR feels like its too much, it's overwhelming the song.  An example might be Daft Punk's "Voyager".  It's an excellent bassline, and it's meant to be powerful and drive the song.  But with the XR it overwhelms the song, the whole song becomes bass, to the point that the track even sounds a bit muffled in comparison to how it sounds with the ER4P.  It loses some crispness and becomes all bass.

On the other hand, Stevie Wonder tracks from the 70s that have a solid but not huge bass sound with the ER4P do benefit with the XRs.  The extra bass sounds great, doesn't overwhelm the song.

So I suppose what I'm saying is I don't think this is necessarily a "throw out/trade in the old headphones" situation after buying the SR (which I also tested and liked, but I felt the opposite... there was too little bass on some tracks) or XR.  Because some tracks, to me at least, do still sound better on the old phones.  I suppose I think that indeed the sound quality has improved a bit on the new phones but I still feel the ER4P are more perfectly balanced, and therefore songs that are already recorded with a pretty loud, booming bass may not benefit from any more with the XR.

I'm using a Sansa +, no EQ at all. 

Am curious if other who have done extensive comparisons using different types of music, including soul/hip hop etc that is already recorded with loud bass, agree or disagree.

As an audiophile and engineer, i think you've subjectively described exactly what i always say objectively also.

Basically, the er4sr has perfect response but not enough sub bass. The xr fixes the a small amount but at the cost of a bit much mid bass. They need something in between or with a shift towars an xr style boost but only in the sub bass area. Mmmmm. The extra "overall" bass is what makes it sound like "too much" for some songs. Whereas, just adding that much sub bass fills out the bass sound in that it gives a bit more body and deepness but not so much thickness you get with the upper bass boosting. They're still both superb, but i never stop dreaming of an er4 "perfect bass" model.

I can give you some eq settings to play with if your sansa is rockbox'd...

 

[CraftyClown]

As an audiophile and engineer, i think you've subjectively described exactly what i always say objectively also.

Basically, the er4sr has perfect response but not enough sub bass. The xr fixes the a small amount but at the cost of a bit much mid bass. They need something in between or with a shift towars an xr style boost but only in the sub bass area. Mmmmm. The extra "overall" bass is what makes it sound like "too much" for some songs. Whereas, just adding that much sub bass fills out the bass sound in that it gives a bit more body and deepness but not so much thickness you get with the upper bass boosting. They're still both superb, but i never stop dreaming of an er4 "perfect bass" model.

I can give you some eq settings to play with if your sansa is rockbox'd...

 
I'd be curious to hear your EQing suggestions for the SR if you don't mind sharing?

 

[Voyageur]

 
Enjoying the Berliner Philharmoniker's interpretation of Brahms 2nd symphony, using the ER4SR.
 
The sound quality of this live stream is poor but still... what a treat.

 

[speed098]

We're supposed to put these in our ears??

Nope you violate your ears...........................................well at least till you turn your music on then the vocals are pure bliss.

 

[moseboy]

I don't know, I'm listening to "Voyager" on my XR right now and it doesn't sound muffled to me. It's certainly warm, but that's how the song is supposed to sound, to my ears anyway. I just can't hear anything getting masked up top. The claps, the phaser, and even all the little blips and clicks every time the sample repeats are perfectly audible and balanced with the bass, while at the same time I can *feel* the kick in my chest. It's really wonderful. Obviously not everyone shares my opinion, but I just wanted to share my experience with the same song and earphones through different ears.

 

[qsk78]

Basically, the er4sr has perfect response but not enough sub bass. 

What do you exactly mean by sub bass? Below 35-40 Hz, kind of electronic music?
I personally do not listen to any electronic genre and the SR plays everything I have in my music very well. 
So I think it depends on your musical preferences. So I have nothing to listen to below 40 Hz (low bass guitar notes end somewhere here).

 

[mark88888]

As an audiophile and engineer, i think you've subjectively described exactly what i always say objectively also.

Basically, the er4sr has perfect response but not enough sub bass. The xr fixes the a small amount but at the cost of a bit much mid bass. They need something in between or with a shift towars an xr style boost but only in the sub bass area. Mmmmm. The extra "overall" bass is what makes it sound like "too much" for some songs. Whereas, just adding that much sub bass fills out the bass sound in that it gives a bit more body and deepness but not so much thickness you get with the upper bass boosting. They're still both superb, but i never stop dreaming of an er4 "perfect bass" model.

I can give you some eq settings to play with if your sansa is rockbox'd...

 
My sansa isn't rockboxed, but I'd be interested!
 
For me, at this point, my er4 "perfect bass" model is the ER4P.  The overall sound quality is perhaps not quite as good as the XR, but I find the treble/bass balance to be perfect.

 
 
 
Quote:

I don't know, I'm listening to "Voyager" on my XR right now and it doesn't sound muffled to me. It's certainly warm, but that's how the song is supposed to sound, to my ears anyway. I just can't hear anything getting masked up top. The claps, the phaser, and even all the little blips and clicks every time the sample repeats are perfectly audible and balanced with the bass, while at the same time I can *feel* the kick in my chest. It's really wonderful. Obviously not everyone shares my opinion, but I just wanted to share my experience with the same song and earphones through different ears.

 
It's not that I hear anything getting masked, but that in comparison to the ER4P I just fiond that the song gets overwhelmed with bass with the XR.  It's not that I can't hear the treble of course, it's there, but to my ear there's just too much bass, to the point that the bass isn't distinct as compared to how it sounds with the ER4P.  The song becomes a world of bass with the treble blips and clicks poking through it.  Of course this is a YMMV thing...  for me, it doesn't sound bad, but theres just too much bass (I'm not sure of the technical term but "mid bass" as luisdent posted above sounds right to me) as compared to the 4P.  Again, though, on tracks that aren't recorded with warm, loud mid-bass(?) already I didn't feel this way.

 

[dlbernau]

We have an upgrade program which allows you to send back an older ER4 and get a discount on the new XR or SR. At this time, only traditional ER4 models are eligible for the trade-in. It's run separately from our SPO (Special Purchase Option) program. If you were to send back a HF3, you the discount code would only apply to the previous ER4 versions (P-T, S, B) and the other items on this list - http://www.etymotic.com/support/out-of-warranty-and-special-purchase-options.

Thanks for the clarification ! Amazon it is then.

 

[Powerlurker]

So I've got a set of old ER6i's that are starting to look like they're due for an upgrade/replacement. Is my understanding that the ER6i was a bit more bass heavy than Etymotic's other offerings correct? In that case would the XR be more similar than the SR to the sound signature of my current monitors? Also, will using the "small" two-flange tips on the new ER4's cause any issue with the sound? They fit my ears perfectly on my current setup while the three-flange ones liked to work themselves out.

 

[james444]

   
The basic idea is that, for most untrained ears, people tends to prefer their headphone with boosted bass. The boosting level can be varied depends on individual research papers, but we just call it '6dB' for simplicity purpose. These researches also show, with trained ears or with the right setup, there is no preference to add bass boost - in a way, you can say if you have accustomed (*trained) to SR's flat sound, then you won't find yourself wanting a bass boost. But for many others who have no preference to a flat sound, they most likely will prefer some level of bass boost.
 
For a different take on the same topic, you can also read up on 'Harman headphone listener target curve', which is more or less another missing-6dB-like study by Harman to develop their own headphone FR curve, with the bass boost of course.

 
Interestingly, the Harman study was done with trained listeners and they still preferred a bass boosted curve.
 

   
Did you read that bit above about 'the missing 6db' though. Fascinating stuff.
 
It appears there is a physiological issue that may cause a 6db deficit in bass for some listeners

 
Here's a pretty good overview of the research done on this topic.
 

  What do you exactly mean by sub bass? Below 35-40 Hz, kind of electronic music?
I personally do not listen to any electronic genre and the SR plays everything I have in my music very well. 
So I think it depends on your musical preferences. So I have nothing to listen to below 40 Hz (low bass guitar notes end somewhere here).

 
Organ and contrabassoon, as well as low fundamentals of bass and tuba extend down to the sub-bass range. There's also the topic of subharmonics, though its relevance for acoustic music seems controversial (from what I've read).

 

[castleofargh]

some papers try to find neutral sound based on the acoustic of the ear(an averaging of many ears), and some reference room(sometimes anechoic chambers). some focus on the feelings of the listener which some people believe to align with neutral while others don't. harman went further that way asking people to seek their preferred sound from the get go instead of thinking of neutral(even if they believe that both should be closely related for plenty of good reasons).
so variations in results are to be expected, and in fact I find them all to be very close despite all those procedural differences.
and in all that stuff there is always the elephant in the room that is bodily felt vibrations on speakers. is it part of sound? part of feelings mixing all our senses at any time? just something we enjoy? can it be substituted correctly by simply adding bass in the ears? and if so, does it work for everybody as it would involve a good deal of the so called "brain plasticity"? a guy who grew up with headphones might not feel the same way about those bass as a guy who always used speakers. IDK enough about the brain to have an opinion on this.
 
when I listen to my speakers which aren't perfect in a perfect room, but still overall pretty well balanced at my listening position(or so says my microphone), alternating rapidly with er4 always clearly leaves a feeling of something missing in the low end. is it because I can't forget my love for body shake? because I fail to get the optimal seal and insertion depth with the er4? because I'm 1.94cm so I tend to fit in averaged targets the way I fit sitting in a plane in eco, painfully? again IDK ^_^. being an amateur, I'm fine EQing my IEMs to whatever I fancy, which happens to be within the 0 to +6db area(based on the usual diffuse field targets) depending on the type of IEM/headphone. with a clear preference for boosted bass on closed BA IEMs when they can take it, for reasons I'm not sure to totally understand(pneumatic blablablah or whatever). but for professionals it must be a real pain sometimes. the same way it's a pain to calibrate picture for the web because you know people will use all sorts of screens with all sorts of setting and use different browsers that might use different color profiles(argggghhhh). and even when you try to stick to the best option, there is always as ClieOS mentioned, what people are used to. by nature we work on pattern and something we're used to, will show little interest because the brain goes "yeah yeah I've got 15000 memories of something that looks just like that, I don't care. and that's how you miss the new hair cut on the lady. but it's also comforting because it shows no threat, if I've seen it 15000, and I'm not dead, it has to be something friendly, or so will think the brain when you'll die from negligence after doing something dangerous for too long.
it's also what makes people so irrationally scared of foreigners, because the brain is working extra time on anything it's not used to. extra focus, extra concern, the concept of not knowing, it's stressing.  and the less you're used to those differences, the more likely you are to dislike them(FR or skin color, it's really the same big concept IMO). some people who never heard a balanced signature might very much prefer the good old crap they're used to. it's something we can't ignore but also can't really be sure to remove in experiments.
 
 
basically what I'm saying is: IDK

 

[CraftyClown]

 
Yes we are. The pricing is based on the warranty eligibility of your current ER4s (in warranty makes the price $225, out of warranty is $275). In order to qualify for the $225, a proof of purchase is required, otherwise you'd still be eligible for the $275, provided you can send back your original unit.
 
I haven't seen Dave yet. He works slightly different hours than I do. There's always the possibility that he's at the Cubs parade.

 
 

   
Thanks Rick,
 
One last question, can I get the out of warranty replacement sent from one of your UK distributors? If not, from my calculations there probably won't be much of a saving if any, compared to purchasing brand new in the UK, due to the cost of shipping my old Etys to the US,  then customs fees, vat and finally shipping back to the UK

 
Hey Rick,
 
Not sure if you missed this the other day? I'm just trying to ascertain whether or not a replacement is financially feasible.
 
I usually use your official UK stockists Etymoticdirect. Could I get the reduced cost IEMs from them? It would seem like such a waste to throw away my ER4 Ps because of a flaky cable.

 

[Francisk]

 some papers try to find neutral sound based on the acoustic of the ear(an averaging of many ears), and some reference room(sometimes anechoic chambers). some focus on the feelings of the listener which some people believe to align with neutral while others don't. harman went further that way asking people to seek their preferred sound from the get go instead of thinking of neutral(even if they believe that both should be closely related for plenty of good reasons).
so variations in results are to be expected, and in fact I find them all to be very close despite all those procedural differences.
and in all that stuff there is always the elephant in the room that is bodily felt vibrations on speakers. is it part of sound? part of feelings mixing all our senses at any time? just something we enjoy? can it be substituted correctly by simply adding bass in the ears? and if so, does it work for everybody as it would involve a good deal of the so called "brain plasticity"? a guy who grew up with headphones might not feel the same way about those bass as a guy who always used speakers. IDK enough about the brain to have an opinion on this.
 
when I listen to my speakers which aren't perfect in a perfect room, but still overall pretty well balanced at my listening position(or so says my microphone), alternating rapidly with er4 always clearly leaves a feeling of something missing in the low end. is it because I can't forget my love for body shake? because I fail to get the optimal seal and insertion depth with the er4? because I'm 1.94cm so I tend to fit in averaged targets the way I fit sitting in a plane in eco, painfully? again IDK ^_^. being an amateur, I'm fine EQing my IEMs to whatever I fancy, which happens to be within the 0 to +6db area(based on the usual diffuse field targets) depending on the type of IEM/headphone. with a clear preference for boosted bass on closed BA IEMs when they can take it, for reasons I'm not sure to totally understand(pneumatic blablablah or whatever). but for professionals it must be a real pain sometimes. the same way it's a pain to calibrate picture for the web because you know people will use all sorts of screens with all sorts of setting and use different browsers that might use different color profiles(argggghhhh). and even when you try to stick to the best option, there is always as ClieOS mentioned, what people are used to. by nature we work on pattern and something we're used to, will show little interest because the brain goes "yeah yeah I've got 15000 memories of something that looks just like that, I don't care. and that's how you miss the new hair cut on the lady. but it's also comforting because it shows no threat, if I've seen it 15000, and I'm not dead, it has to be something friendly, or so will think the brain when you'll die from negligence after doing something dangerous for too long.
it's also what makes people so irrationally scared of foreigners, because the brain is working extra time on anything it's not used to. extra focus, extra concern, the concept of not knowing, it's stressing.  and the less you're used to those differences, the more likely you are to dislike them(FR or skin color, it's really the same big concept IMO). some people who never heard a balanced signature might very much prefer the good old crap they're used to. it's something we can't ignore but also can't really be sure to remove in experiments.
 
 
basically what I'm saying is: IDK

The most widely accepted flat response curve for IEM has always been the diffuse field target which I personally find a little misleading. If I'm not wrong, the closest IEM to conform to the diffuse field target has always been the Etymotic ER4 series. In spite of the ER4S/SR's reputation of achieving the closest diffuse field curve, I've always felt that it's actually somewhat accentuated on the 2.5kHz region which somehow makes the sound shouty around that region. That is exactly what I hear and I can't pretend that it's okay to have a shouty 2.5kHz region and still agree that the ER4S/SR is a perfectly flat IEM just because millions of people said so. As for the bass frequencies, I totally agree with Castleofargh regarding the lack of it. Yes, the low frequencies are there but it's just a little modest from what I hear. To be honest, the level at 2.5kHz region is definitely way above the 100Hz region. Am I supposed to agree that this is how a totally flat response, totally neutral and totally balanced sound should be??? To MY ears, absolutely NOT...YMMV.
 
My next question is whether the certification of the diffuse field target actually consider the fact that all humans have different ears anatomy from person to person, let alone from right ear to the left ear of a certain individual, which leads to the fact that it should sound different from one ear to the other. If the ear anatomy difference is not taken into consideration then how can one claim that we SHOULD all hear the same thing, assuming that all our ears are perfectly fine without any damage. The closest claim should be that it's a PERCEIVED flat response, PERCEIVED neutrality and PERCEIVED balanced sound. The only way to achieve the claim of total flatness is to hardwire one's brain to an accurate measuring equipment that measures whatever we hear in our ears, then tune everything to a perfectly flat response...which is totally impossible today.
 
Last but not least, should I conform to what everybody agree with or should I listen to my own ears and form my own judgement??? The answer is all up to you my dear AUDIO friends.