[ClieOS]

   
This was basically my main apprehension with the cheaper Ety models, since even most other high-end IEMs ive heard sound dampened to me compared with the ER4.  As a backup pair, I cant possibly hope to achieve anything close to the ER4 (though reading stuff about the HF5, I feel like it may be a contender), but typically I find most, if not all, sub-$100 IEMs to sound like bass monsters that just suck the life out of the midbass and higher end.  
 
Also, how does the insertion of the MK5 compare with the ER4?  I insert the ER4 very deep, and from what ive seen of the MC5, it looks like it has a bigger body and doesnt allow for the same insertion depth.  Im one of those rare people who has been able to get so used to the ER4 that I now consider them as comfortable as the Shure and Westone flagship IEMs that I used to own, except that the Ety gets a better seal (which equals better imo).  I can literally wear them for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and still say that they are comfortable.  Tbh I prefer the minimalism in the body of the headphone and how basically they insert into my ears to the point where there is just a cord coming out of them.  This is why I cant envision getting any other replacement IEM than something else from Ety.

 
It is 6.9mm (in diameter) ER4 vs. 7.4mm MK5, so they really ain't the different in size. MC5 is indeed larger in diameter because it uses a larger dynamic driver (8mm), as compared to MK5 (6mm).

 

[castleofargh]

  I am on the opposite - really prefer the MK5 over MC5 as MC5 sounds over-dampened to my ears.

yeah I guess it's a matter of reference. compared to the er4, there is no doubt that you're right. but I like the almost boring kind of sound, as a more relaxing audio experience. once the low end is boosted the effect is even worst ^_^. my strange tastes!
 

  How about distortion? MC5 vs. ER4B/S:

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

(source:  M.R.O.)
 

  MC5 sounds over-dampened to my ears.

 
Most definitely agree.

could be, but I'm a little shy when it comes to picking a cause just because it looks good. although this one makes me look like a golden ear so it's tempting

 
 
@Eternalmetal all etymotics except the MC5 have a small diameter and can go real deep. in fact I guess even the MC5 could go deep for some ears, but not mine .
the closer there is to the er4 would be the HF5, but given the price, inferior trebles, and much higher sensitivity(you need to care for sources hissing), I'm not sure it's the right choice, might as well buy another ER4.

 

[Eternalmetal]

Originally Posted by castleofargh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  yeah I guess it's a matter of reference. compared to the er4, there is no doubt that you're right. but I like the almost boring kind of sound, as a more relaxing audio experience. once the low end is boosted the effect is even worst ^_^. my strange tastes!
 
could be, but I'm a little shy when it comes to picking a cause just because it looks good. although this one makes me look like a golden ear so it's tempting

 
 
@Eternalmetal all etymotics except the MC5 have a small diameter and can go real deep. in fact I guess even the MC5 could go deep for some ears, but not mine .
the closer there is to the er4 would be the HF5, but given the price, inferior trebles, and much higher sensitivity(you need to care for sources hissing), I'm not sure it's the right choice, might as well buy another ER4.

No way am I buying another ER4 when the only thing mine needs is a recabling.  More than likely I damaged my ER4 cable by doing things like mowing the lawn and working out, so the cheap replacement would probably be more delegated to those activities rather than just sitting in their case.  Currently on Amazon I see the ER4 priced at over $100 more than the HF5, and currently im only considering the cheaper alternatives because they are around the same price as a recable (of which im already in line to get a custom cable made by ClieOS).  So at this point the only way I could be convinced to spend the extra cash on the HF5 is if it is significantly worth the price gap of the cheaper options.  The more I think about it, the more I think about it, the more I want to just buy the HF5 as a backup pair and get over it, but the cheaper options are certainly more disposable and less of a loss if they are ruined or misplaced.  I think ive just talked myself into getting the HF5s instead, damn it.

 

[ER4S]

 
I'll add that the MC5 has a bigger shell. it's still on the small size of things for IEMs, but it's too large for me to go probe my brain like I do with other ety IEMs. that can be a deciding factor for the signature and comfort IMO.

 
That's right. MK5 is more comfortable than MC5.
 
And about sound, I like both of them but yes, MC5 has boring sound which I like sometimes.

 

[Eternalmetal]

Well, instead of going with either of those two, I decided to bite the bullet and get the HF5 (I realized deep down that I would regret not getting them since ive been wondering for years how they sound).  My immediate impression (after I took the small triple flanges off and put on a pair of the trusty grey ones) was that the body of the headphone was shorter, and that sadly I could not just insert them the same was as I do with the ER4.  Apparently I insert the ER4 even deeper than this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/649046/hd600-in-the-form-of-an-iem-with-very-good-isolation/60#post_9305716 , and thus to get the same type of fit with the HF5 that I would have to stuff them so far in my ears that I would soon damage them since I had to pull them out by the cord.  It didnt take long for me to figure out that I could still get a good seal without inserting them as far as I do with my ER4 (im definitely getting a great seal though), but this is something that I hadnt even read about when people were comparing the two side by side.  Honestly it surprised me how different the fit was, since I was just expecting it to be the same.  
 
Since it took me a couple weeks to get used to the fit of my ER4, I was incapable of deciding whether they needed some break-in, but im not even going to specifically ask the question since it is controversial.  Feel free to share your opinions nonetheless on whether I should expect them to sound differently after ~100 hours of use, since this may or may not skew my first impressions on the sound.  
 
I have only been messing around with them for a couple hours, so this is going to be my preliminary first impression.  The build quality is noticeably less robust than the ER4, but there are a few things that I actually like about it.  First off, the cable length is much more manageable, and I dont have to coil the cord in my pocket (which on the ER4 eventually tangles the cable since I take my iPod/cell phone in and out of my pocket).  Also the thinner, softer, and lighter cable is a nice addition and more comfortable, though without a doubt im worried about it's durability over time.  I also like the rubberized coating on the body of the IEM itself - this literally makes the headphone softer and more comfortable in the ear.  And as for the 45 degree angle connector, I actually like it better since imo it doesnt stress the jack as much when moving it around, but I imagine that this is debatable (my ER4S extension has the same 45 degree angle).  So overall the build quality seems to be substantially less durable, but also results in them being more comfortable to wear.  It reminds me of my cheap JVC marshmallows that I used to own, except a little more robust.  Since I bought these despite already knowing about the build quality difference, I am ok with it, but im just making it known that these are not built like the ER4.  The non-removable cable will probably result in these only lasting a couple years at best of regular use for me (im already worrying about cable snags).
 
Now the reason why I bought the HF5 (other than being an ER4 backup): the sound.  Note that any sound comparison will be with the red filters installed in my ER4 (of which im already thinking about swapping into the HF5), and most likely in the P configuration since volumes are more comparable that way.  There is definitely more bass presence with the HF5.  Since I own the ER4 you can imagine that im not a basshead, but I feel like the HF5 provides the slight extra punch that the ER4 just does not have.  This can of course be altered with EQ (I dont find this to be a basshead IEM or anything), but stock the difference is definitely noticeable (probably like a +3db boost in the upper bass range).  Im not sure if it is just because of the extra bass or not, but I find the HF5 to be significantly warmer in sound, but there is also that boost in the upper midrange that I remember was the reason why I ended up using the red filters in the ER4.  The HF5 is very precise and I can hear a lot of detail, but as expected it seems veiled in comparison with the ER4.  It just does not have that straight up clarity that ive been used to, but as a result the sound is definitely warmer and slightly more musical.  The veiled sound also gives me the impression of a slightly smaller soundstage.  
 
Overall, im pretty satisfied with the HF5s so far.  They seem to be about as close to the ER4 as I was expecting without getting another pair of ER4s.  I am actually hoping for the veiling/slight muffling of the sound to change as they break in, but they still sound really good.  I still find that I like the ER4 significantly more, but more time getting used to their sound may eventually close the gap a little bit, since ive found that my initial impressions of headphones and IEMs tend to change a bit over time.  As a backup IEM to the ER4, I am completely satisfied with them at the moment.  I will miss my ER4s while waiting for the new cable, but the HF5 sounds good enough that I wont exactly be living in despair.  
 
edit: was just messing around and decided to see if the ER4P to S converter would work with the HF5, and it didnt.  I guess the wiring doesnt match for some reason.  If I were to pull the converter cable out of the source a little, the sound would be clear, but I didnt mess with it too much since I didnt want to do any damage to the headphones, and it was clear that it didnt work.  At the very least I expected them to be compatible, very strange.

 

[VladTheImpala]

A second pair of etys has crapped out on me. The first one (on page 461) developed a rattling/buzzing noise on certain frequencies. It only happened on certain tracks, when certain frequencies were encountered, but it was annoying enough for me to consider it defective. It wasn't the filter - replacing the filter didn't do anything, and moving the earpiece to the other side resulted in the buzzing noise following the earpiece. Blowing into it, tapping it, etc, did not work to fix it.

Now the same thing has started to happen on another pair. Luckily, I was able to make a perfectly functioning pair out of the two working pieces, so now I have a working set and a set where both pieces make a buzzing noise. This second set has a slightly different and actually even worse buzzing noise than the first one.

Other people have been saying that these things last decades, but I've gone through two pairs in about a year and a half. Starting to get worried, but I still love these things and will probably buy another pair. Being in Canada, its too expensive to do the etymotic replacement thing - cheaper to just buy another lightly used set. Maybe I have to start being a little less rough with them. I tend to throw them onto tables and sometimes they fall and hit the floor when I'm wearing them. Don't really know what could be causing the damage though.

 

[Voyageur]

  A second pair of etys has crapped out on me. The first one (on page 461) developed a rattling/buzzing noise on certain frequencies. It only happened on certain tracks, when certain frequencies were encountered, but it was annoying enough for me to consider it defective. It wasn't the filter - replacing the filter didn't do anything, and moving the earpiece to the other side resulted in the buzzing noise following the earpiece. Blowing into it, tapping it, etc, did not work to fix it.

 
Wow, that's unfortunate. Is it a constant buzzing sound or a crackle that happens from time to time? 

 

[VladTheImpala]

   
Wow, that's unfortunate. Is it a constant buzzing sound or a crackle that happens from time to time? 

It isn't constant because it only happens with certain frequencies. I can play one song and it is perfect, but then another song will be fairly buzzy. It sort of happens when it tries to hit certain notes, and it sounds like distortion, like a rattling/buzzing (hard to describe). It's almost like static, it will be there for a couple of seconds, then disappear, then reappear. The reason I think it's related to a specific frequency is because it's always in the same spots, and it just sounds like it's trying to play a specific note and failing. It'll be fine 95% of the time, but when it encounters that one note, it buzzes. The first pair was barely noticeable, so it was more or less tolerable, but the buzzing on this second pair is just louder and a lot more distracting.

I wonder what caused this. I imagine it's probably the driver deteriorating over time or being damaged somehow. I hope it doesn't have to do with loudness, because I like to pump mine pretty loud, and I fully intend on blasting any replacement pair I get.

I'll try being more gentle, laying them down gently everywhere, instead of letting them fall to the table or to the ground.

 

[jesusio]

@VladTheImpala Have you tried changing out the filters?  That's how they sound when the filter needs to be replaced.  Hopefully it's not the cable.

 

[VladTheImpala]

Tried changing the filters, it's not the filters. Tried it with new filters, with no filters, every which way. It's not the cable because swapping the earpieces results in the buzzing moving with the earpiece, so it's definitely the earpiece that's broken. I also have multiple etymotic cables at this point, so changing the cable was the first thing I tried.
 
Whether it's permanently broken, or how it broke is a question I have no answer to. I'm assuming the driver somehow went. The only other possibility, which is extremely slim, is that something is lodged inside and needs to be blown out, but I don't see how that could have happened because I have always used filters. I also tried blowing into it and it didn't help. 

Maybe as one last hail mary I will try one of those pressurized cans of air to blast high pressure into it. Since it's already broken, what do I have to lose?

 

[Dougr33]

"I tend to throw them onto tables and sometimes they fall and hit the floor when I'm wearing them."  To be honest, it'd never occur to me to be that rough with them. I've not seen many posts in this thread with your issue, so that might be it?  Good luck though.. I know they're not cheap, and are worth replacing.

 

[VladTheImpala]

Hopefully that's what it is. Easier to change habits than keep replacing them. I use them every day, take them on and off probably 10 times every day. When I take them out of my ears I just let them drop because they are clipped to my shirt, so they just fall down to the level of my torso and kind of swing back and forth as I walk, sometimes hitting each other. That could be another reason. Maybe I should just put them away as soon as I take them out of my ears. Sometimes they fall all the way to the floor when it comes unclipped, but I imagine that sometimes happens to everyone who uses them on a daily basis. Still, it's probably not good.
 
When I toss them on tables, it's from a small height, but it's probably still not good. I'll try being super gentle from now on and hopefully they will hold up.

 

[therealbene]

Aahh, blame Ety on it's sturdy look and the notion that it would withstand less than decent treatment.
Why, completely encasing a Knowles ED-29689 receiver/transducer into a seemingly solid piece of plastic seems to create the impression that it's solid one piece/entity in there. It's even called a driver, not a housing.

Balanced armature transducer/receiver has one fragile point : the armature is held in the middle of two magnets. Alternating current of audio signal on the coil would cause the armature to vibrate, which in turn vibrate the membrane with the drive rod to create sound. However, some acceleration or deceleration (drop them on a hard surface) would cause them to move. Perhaps, the movement swing more than what the acceptable tolerance, causing the armature to stick to the magnet or bend permanently. The acceleration/deceleration must be on a very peculiar weak angle (vertical?) with respect to the driver for this to take place, though.

I can only guess that this is what happen to your unit. Probability theory says that this is very unlikely to happen, but it can still happen. It certainly doesn't happen quite enough to entitle Etys as fragile, though.

Housing and circuit design cannot add into a driver's potency, it can only extract as much potency from the driver as possible (that is, getting closer to 100%). In terms of creating a good product out of ED29689, I guess, Ety is doing a good job. Perhaps, closest to 100% potency of the ED29689. But then, an ER4 is only a pair of ED29689, at best.

 

[ClieOS]

  A second pair of etys has crapped out on me. The first one (on page 461) developed a rattling/buzzing noise on certain frequencies. It only happened on certain tracks, when certain frequencies were encountered, but it was annoying enough for me to consider it defective. It wasn't the filter - replacing the filter didn't do anything, and moving the earpiece to the other side resulted in the buzzing noise following the earpiece. Blowing into it, tapping it, etc, did not work to fix it.

Now the same thing has started to happen on another pair. Luckily, I was able to make a perfectly functioning pair out of the two working pieces, so now I have a working set and a set where both pieces make a buzzing noise. This second set has a slightly different and actually even worse buzzing noise than the first one.

Other people have been saying that these things last decades, but I've gone through two pairs in about a year and a half. Starting to get worried, but I still love these things and will probably buy another pair. Being in Canada, its too expensive to do the etymotic replacement thing - cheaper to just buy another lightly used set. Maybe I have to start being a little less rough with them. I tend to throw them onto tables and sometimes they fall and hit the floor when I'm wearing them. Don't really know what could be causing the damage though.

 
 

Aahh, blame Ety on it's sturdy look and the notion that it would withstand less than decent treatment.
Why, completely encasing a Knowles ED-29689 receiver/transducer into a seemingly solid piece of plastic seems to create the impression that it's solid one piece/entity in there. It's even called a driver, not a housing.

Balanced armature transducer/receiver has one fragile point : the armature is held in the middle of two magnets. Alternating current of audio signal on the coil would cause the armature to vibrate, which in turn vibrate the membrane with the drive rod to create sound. However, some acceleration or deceleration (drop them on a hard surface) would cause them to move. Perhaps, the movement swing more than what the acceptable tolerance, causing the armature to stick to the magnet or bend permanently. The acceleration/deceleration must be on a very peculiar weak angle (vertical?) with respect to the driver for this to take place, though.

I can only guess that this is what happen to your unit. Probability theory says that this is very unlikely to happen, but it can still happen. It certainly doesn't happen quite enough to entitle Etys as fragile, though.

Housing and circuit design cannot add into a driver's potency, it can only extract as much potency from the driver as possible (that is, getting closer to 100%). In terms of creating a good product out of ED29689, I guess, Ety is doing a good job. Perhaps, closest to 100% potency of the ED29689. But then, an ER4 is only a pair of ED29689, at best.

 
That ^. The armature can easily get misaligned when impact, and it is the same for all BA driver and not just ER4. While ER4 does last for decades, it doesn't mean you shouldn't take good care of it.

 

[m.knight]

I'm on my 2nd set of ER4's. First set I bought in 2003 and treated me well. I abused the crap out of them, the even went into the washing machine. Built like a tank.

Last year one of the stems started to break at the base. They still sounded great but the writing was on the wall.

Etymotic accepts old broken phones for heavily discounted new one. So I got a brand new ER4-S for $179. Money well spent for wonderful iems and fantastic support.