[brunk]

Has anyone successfully re-cabled the S to TRRS? I have the P, but using an S adapter and it seems possible, but I would like to know for sure. Otherwise, I might take the plunge and make a TRRS "S" adapter from scratch.

 

[luisdent]

I also agree on the ER-4S scaling with better amps. It's not a huge difference, but it's clearly audible.

i thought this too and said the same thing. Just read my posts in this thread. I described a well amp'd er4s as more open and spacious with more distinction and effortlessness. But the truth is, once i did a fair conparison via a/b, i have to be truthful and say i was "hearing things".

I won't say there aren't improvements with higher priced amps. I can't say that without trying them all. However, i will say price isn't everything. Take the c5 with a dedicated dac for example. More than powerful enough to drive the er4s and then some. Has incredible specs all around. Measures amazingly well, just superb. Incredibly low noise floor, non existent thd levels, perfect channel balance. Incredible power rail system for amazing all around performance.

It sounds the same as the fuze.

That's a tough sell for most people, but in a direct a/b test i hear no discernable difference. I can't even "feel" a difference in the sound at all. Now i'll list all my audio background if you want to hear it, but i'll just say i have very very good hearing. I can hear very minute differences even my fellow audio engineers miss. The point being, they hear a difference and i don't. Why? I think because they "think" they hear a difference they do. The mind is a powerful tricky thing.

So what about a $2000 amp? Well, first show me a spec that is better than the c5. Is the c5 perfect? Maybe not, but every spec is good enough that any audiophile into audibilty of things like thd, etc. will tell you the specs are well beyond what you can hear as an improvement. For instance, it is widely agreed that somewhere above say .5% to 1% of distortion is where it becomes audible. O.k., you say, but you can hear .25% distortion... The c5 has .0009% thd! That's well beyond any audible difference. So i don't believe a $2000 amp can audibly improve on that. Same goes for the other specs. In fact a lot of expensive amps are tube amps, and they have very audible distortion. But a lot of people find the effect pleasing. So is that a bad thing? Not if you're into that. But is it better? I'd say technically no, but to each his own. Music is art, but i believe the perfect reproduction of music is very much science.

My point is, there are laws of diminishing audible returns, i think pricey amps can be neutral and simply have great specs and sound great. But they can also color the sound for good or bad. They have beautiful designs. They're hand made, etc., etc. but in the end it is the sound that matters to me.

If you give the er4s sufficient power and good clean signal with a flat response, they sound great. The fuze dies this as well as the ipod as well as an apogee interface as well as a $1800 denon receiver. And i think everyone should prove to themselves whether they can hear a difference or not with a double blind test. And what is the difference you hear if any?

I'm sure i'll get a lot of crap for this, but again, this is coming from someone who truly thought there was an improvement with a nice amp. If you want to send me more material i'd be glad to do even further testing. Maybe i'll even pass around my a/b switch...

 

[brunk]

@luisdent I think you're arguing with the wrong person 

 I am more on 'your side' than against you. The difference is very small, but clearly audible, and yes I do have an A/B switch It's the other guys saying a huge difference, not me. However, I do want to try a balanced termination on the ER4S to see if reduced crosstalk and better power handling make a bigger difference than an amp does. My guess is that it will...

 

[luisdent]

  @luisdent I think you're arguing with the wrong person 

 I am more on 'your side' than against you. The difference is very small, but clearly audible, and yes I do have an A/B switch It's the other guys saying a huge difference, not me. However, I do want to try a balanced termination on the ER4S to see if reduced crosstalk and better power handling make a bigger difference than an amp does. My guess is that it will...

 
First, please don't take this as an "argument".  It's not that, just giving out my view on things.  Second, as I said, I haven't heard every amp, so it's very possible some are improvements.  My point is more that for most amps in most situations, I think people "think" there is more difference if any.  And you in fact hit the diminishing returns area at a certain point.  I think people think they're better than a double blind test and that it somehow insults them or hurts their pride or something.  A lot of people have their opinions and some are very helpful, but I wish everyone could more precisely describe sounds in a consistently measured way all around.  Then it would be easier to find your favorite headphones.  It can feel like a mess of opinions when someone says "that's warm" or "it sounds too bassy".  Those might be very helpful things, but they're not exactly precise comparisons of any specific sound terminology.
 
Anyway, I'm getting off track.
 
As for balanced, I have heard a lot of serious head-fi'ers say it improves things someway or another.  ClieOS, I believe, said he uses a balanced amp on once of his favorite setups with an IEM.  He's the guy that led me to all these awesome neutral IEMs like the ER4S.  I'm very curious to try one out.

 

[brunk]

   
First, please don't take this as an "argument".  It's not that, just giving out my view on things.  Second, as I said, I haven't heard every amp, so it's very possible some are improvements.  My point is more that for most amps in most situations, I think people "think" there is more difference if any.  And you in fact hit the diminishing returns area at a certain point.  I think people think they're better than a double blind test and that it somehow insults them or hurts their pride or something.  A lot of people have their opinions and some are very helpful, but I wish everyone could more precisely describe sounds in a consistently measured way all around.  Then it would be easier to find your favorite headphones.  It can feel like a mess of opinions when someone says "that's warm" or "it sounds too bassy".  Those might be very helpful things, but they're not exactly precise comparisons of any specific sound terminology.
 
Anyway, I'm getting off track.
 
As for balanced, I have heard a lot of serious head-fi'ers say it improves things someway or another.  ClieOS, I believe, said he uses a balanced amp on once of his favorite setups with an IEM.  He's the guy that led me to all these awesome neutral IEMs like the ER4S.  I'm very curious to try one out.

Yeah I definitely agree on DBT/placebo etc. Buying/making an A/B switch is the greatest investment in audio, period Anyways, back to the balanced topic. Do you know if the Ety cable has its grounds tied at the Y-split, or the jack? I dont want to cut the jack off my P and be bummed the 4th wire isn't there 

 If that ends up being the case, where can I find the Ety earpiece adapters? I think I'm going to move forward with this, but I need this info before I do. I also need to figure out how to work in the resistors into either the plug, or find some really small SMD ones and just put heat shrink over them.
 
If you have any of this info, it would be much appreciated

 

[castleofargh]

@luisdent they played a trick on you and made a placebo switch. ^_^
I can't do blind testing, but AB I can, I went berserk some times ago too bored to unplug replug 15times in a row looking for a difference, and bought switch, resistor adapters and different color of filters to play around like a kid. but I still have real troubles with volume matching.
the ER4 has it's own way of positioning instruments, as I said not a lot of height and almost no depth, but width is ok (the only way I could imagine it better would be with more sub bass to make that surrounding feeling you usually get on bassy phones with large bores, like my fav mid murderer, the IE80).
when using different sources the result will change even if only a little. and I have to agree, in the end it is mostly due to some variations in crossfeed forced by technical limitations or voluntarily implemented for a given imaging effect.
but I can always tell there are differences from a source to another. hell I sold my pico slim because it gave me no depth at all. I didn't read that anywhere and it took me like 3 weeks to realize what was bothering me in the sound when everything sounded so clean and fun.
only on the positioning of the instruments I can tell what dap I'm listening to(unless you add some dsp effects ^_^). 
my clip has the smallest sized headroom with my yp-p3 (see that fellow like a sansa with more power and no rockbox). my cowon I10 is bigger in every directions, my sony a865 has almost the same width as the clip, but it deals with depth and height in a weird way(that I happen to like) when for example a guitar and a little tambourine are very close on one side, just a little above the phone itself. then the sony will put the guitar lower but a little more forward than it usually is on most sources, and launch the tambourine high up in the air. fun
the dx50 was from memory mostly with a big width and some height, the x3 pushes everything forward but fails at width and height. height being the major problem for me here. sometime percussions would meddle with the lead voice in the center :'( .
the F886 might be the widest I've heard, and I liked the surround effect "studio" a lot because it pushed things forward but still had some impressive width. when the same effect on the A865 makes the soundstage to collapse and put everything up front.
and all those changes get also affected in some ways depending on the amp. O2 is pretty realistic (read width and height mostly with little to no crossfeed effect), I've got a cmoy here that doesn't do much except go wild in the frequency response.
 
now some IEMs are less affected than other(it takes something special to separate the pudding of a pl30), but if the ER4 stays what make it unique, it does get affected too.
 
I won't pretend I would tell my daps apart blindfolded 100% of times with random music, but with my test tracks I'm pretty confident.
I'm not sure I would find a difference between my samsung and my clips, but the rest is pretty clear in my head (also wouldn't bet on the dx50 I didn't spend enough time with it and would probably have to cheat and seek some signature tips).
 
it happens that for years I didn't like the sansa and didn't like ipods. finding them both ... I don't know, boring. at the time I had no practice in listening to music (yes if you pay more attention you notice more, and it gets easier with time!!!) and I couldn't really say why. now I would say that they do nothing wrong but are a little small in soundstage, and that may be the problem on headphones when a lot of us look for bigger to remind them of a real sound on speakers.
too polite to be noticed in a crowed of daps ^_^.
 
but where you are right with the er4, it is the only BA driver I know that is almost not affected by impedance. and that is a huge difference. when you amp an IEM just by going from your 3+ ohm dap to the 0.XXohm amp, the sound is bound to change. with the er4 not at all in that specific sector.
I'll be tempted to say that the er4p changes more than the er4s, but it might just be that the change in volume from an impedance change is more important on the er4p so I got played by the oh so famous "louder is better".
 
 
@brunk I only used the er4p with the adapters from awwan to plug the usual custom cables into the er4. so I don't really know.
the question is to know if there is only one set of resistors in the P to S adapter on a common -/ground, or if there is a set of resistor for each side. etymotic would tell you, they're not shy and usually answer fast. if separated, worst case scenario you'd have to add 2 cables to replace the -/ground section of the adapter.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/awwan/m.html  he did whatever impedance adapter I asked and might accept to do a balanced P to S adpater is you ask him. he can do anything, it just needs to be worth his time. edit he does already ^_^

 

[luisdent]

 

   
First, please don't take this as an "argument".  It's not that, just giving out my view on things.  Second, as I said, I haven't heard every amp, so it's very possible some are improvements.  My point is more that for most amps in most situations, I think people "think" there is more difference if any.  And you in fact hit the diminishing returns area at a certain point.  I think people think they're better than a double blind test and that it somehow insults them or hurts their pride or something.  A lot of people have their opinions and some are very helpful, but I wish everyone could more precisely describe sounds in a consistently measured way all around.  Then it would be easier to find your favorite headphones.  It can feel like a mess of opinions when someone says "that's warm" or "it sounds too bassy".  Those might be very helpful things, but they're not exactly precise comparisons of any specific sound terminology.
 
Anyway, I'm getting off track.
 
As for balanced, I have heard a lot of serious head-fi'ers say it improves things someway or another.  ClieOS, I believe, said he uses a balanced amp on once of his favorite setups with an IEM.  He's the guy that led me to all these awesome neutral IEMs like the ER4S.  I'm very curious to try one out.

Yeah I definitely agree on DBT/placebo etc. Buying/making an A/B switch is the greatest investment in audio, period Anyways, back to the balanced topic. Do you know if the Ety cable has its grounds tied at the Y-split, or the jack? I dont want to cut the jack off my P and be bummed the 4th wire isn't there 

 If that ends up being the case, where can I find the Ety earpiece adapters? I think I'm going to move forward with this, but I need this info before I do. I also need to figure out how to work in the resistors into either the plug, or find some really small SMD ones and just put heat shrink over them.
 
If you have any of this info, it would be much appreciated

 
This is all I know.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/fe/fe9cb16d_image.jpeg

 

[brunk]

   
This is all I know.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/fe/fe9cb16d_image.jpeg

OK thanks. So it is indeed tied at the Y-split :/ That means I need to make a TRRS "S" cable from scratch then. Two more questions and I'll leave you alone lol. What value resistors are on the actual Ety S model? Second, what is a good online source for the Ety earpiece adapters? Thanks

 

[Solude]

91ohm if memory serves.

 

[ProjectDenz]

How long do the ER4 filters usually last before they have to be changed?

 

[ClieOS]

  How long do the ER4 filters usually last before they have to be changed?

 
Depends on how dirty your ear canals are. It can last from a few weeks to a few years. Since I keep my ear canal fairly clean, I never really need to change the filter on my ER4, though I reckon changing it every 1~2 years just to keep it on top condition.

 

[brunk]

  91ohm if memory serves.

Thanks Solude. So that means the BA itself is around ~9 ohms? I think I found a good contender for the resistor solution. Awwan sells S adapters that attach to the earpieces! Therefore, all i need to do is is get some Westone pins and I would be on my merry way to a TRRS-cabled ER4S Much simpler than I could have hoped for lol.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-ETYMOTIC-ER4-IN-EARPHONE-CABLE-ADAPTOR-S-/300592438512
 
There's also a Shure version here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOR-ETYMOTIC-ER4-IN-EARPHONE-CABLE-ADAPTOR-S-SHURE-CABLE-VERSION-/290630811178

 

[draven5494]

I will say, since getting my ER4Ps a month or two ago, they have pretty much ruined my ears... in a good way.  I find it really hard to listen to pretty much any other headphone/IEM because I love the ER4 sound so much.  It is detailed, refined... just top notch all-around.  I have held off getting an S adapter but I think I'm ready to get one now.  Has anyone tried this one?
 
I was really looking for the cable-style adapter as opposed to the plug-style.  

 

[brunk]

  I will say, since getting my ER4Ps a month or two ago, they have pretty much ruined my ears... in a good way.  I find it really hard to listen to pretty much any other headphone/IEM because I love the ER4 sound so much.  It is detailed, refined... just top notch all-around.  I have held off getting an S adapter but I think I'm ready to get one now.  Has anyone tried this one?
 
I was really looking for the cable-style adapter as opposed to the plug-style.  

That one looks pretty decent, though I personally prefer the actual ETY model because it's lightweight, small and has an angled connector. I picked mine up for $13 shipped, so I'm sure there are some lurking around on ebay for similar pricing.

 

[draven5494]

  That one looks pretty decent, though I personally prefer the actual ETY model because it's lightweight, small and has an angled connector. I picked mine up for $13 shipped, so I'm sure there are some lurking around on ebay for similar pricing.

I may have to go with the Amazon one, since the only one on Ebay I can find like that is this one which is $45 + shipping.