[moseboy]

From memory, no.  Too close.

That's not a bad thing I guess. What were your impressions of the construction with respect to both the cable and the earpieces?

 

[castleofargh]

  You can get a Custom Art ei.3 for $300 which is a 3 BA CIEM.
 
Etymotic pricing is so ridiculous. Hope to see their pricing reduce by $100.
 

  I'm most tempted by the ER4XR. I could never get on with the ER4P, not because I didn't like the bass, but because of the sacrifices it brought to the treble of the ER4S. 

 
ER4S is just ER4PT with a 75Ω resistor in series to increase treble as the impedance curve isn't flat. You can buy an P to S adapter from ebay or just make one yourself which is quite simple.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4PT.pdf
 
Looking forward to someone opening up to see what BA model is inside in the 4XR and 4SR. The Knowles BA (ED-29689) used in the Etymotic ER-4 was ~$20 on mouser and even if you added on the costs of good channel matching it was still far too expensive for what it is.

the number of drivers is irrelevant, the resulting sound is. I went for the "wow much sound much drivers" thing, like so many people. being sold the usual "this driver for the bass this driver for mids, this one for trebles because one fails to extend", but then the er4 even today is still one of the very rare BA IEM to extend well. and the best actual extension I've heard on IEMs usually comes from single dynamic drivers, not multidrivers. so this is IMO marketing vs reality, multi driver can be cool and help fine tune a signature, but let's not make it a selling point when it's really not one.
 
about channel matching, or simply consistency from one model to the next, IMO that's the very reason why a device is professional. I never thought etymotic was anything special until I started measuring IEMs

.  if signature stability, channel matching and how close one model is from the next were the reasons to price IEMs, many 1000$+ IEMs would have to go hide under a rock in shame.
I'm not saying that people have to love the signature of the ER4, I personally don't and always EQ my all my etys, but price tag or number of drivers, is really not something etymotic should be blamed for IMO.

 

[Francisk]

 
the number of drivers is irrelevant, the resulting sound is. I went for the "wow much sound much drivers" thing, like so many people. being sold the usual "this driver for the bass this driver for mids, this one for trebles because one fails to extend", but then the er4 even today is still one of the very rare BA IEM to extend well. and the best actual extension I've heard on IEMs usually comes from single dynamic drivers, not multidrivers. so this is IMO marketing vs reality, multi driver can be cool and help fine tune a signature, but let's not make it a selling point when it's really not one.
 
about channel matching, or simply consistency from one model to the next, IMO that's the very reason why a device is professional. I never thought etymotic was anything special until I started measuring IEMs

.  if signature stability, channel matching and how close one model is from the next were the reasons to price IEMs, many 1000$+ IEMs would have to go hide under a rock in shame.
I'm not saying that people have to love the signature of the ER4, I personally don't and always EQ my all my etys, but price tag or number of drivers, is really not something etymotic should be blamed for IMO.

Castleofargh, I think TenMoonsNorth is referring to 3 BA CIEM = higher cost vs single BA = lower cost....Yet 3BA CIEM is sold for much less than Ety's ER4SR/XR with single BA.

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

 
the number of drivers is irrelevant, the resulting sound is. I went for the "wow much sound much drivers" thing, like so many people. being sold the usual "this driver for the bass this driver for mids, this one for trebles because one fails to extend", but then the er4 even today is still one of the very rare BA IEM to extend well. and the best actual extension I've heard on IEMs usually comes from single dynamic drivers, not multidrivers. so this is IMO marketing vs reality, multi driver can be cool and help fine tune a signature, but let's not make it a selling point when it's really not one.
 
about channel matching, or simply consistency from one model to the next, IMO that's the very reason why a device is professional. I never thought etymotic was anything special until I started measuring IEMs

.  if signature stability, channel matching and how close one model is from the next were the reasons to price IEMs, many 1000$+ IEMs would have to go hide under a rock in shame.
I'm not saying that people have to love the signature of the ER4, I personally don't and always EQ my all my etys, but price tag or number of drivers, is really not something etymotic should be blamed for IMO.

 
It's relevant to cost and labour though. 3 BA CIEM is going cost more not just in cost of components but also cost in labour of building the shell. The factor that is important is how many get rejected but considering the cost of components is quite low as is the assembly time even with very good channel matching it doesn't justify $350 and then overcharging on all the accessories.
 
I have wondered whether the BA used that weren't good enough for the ER-4 series ended up in the HF2/3/5 series considering they both use the same model and Rin Choi measured the HF2/3/5 as having faster bass roll off after 50Hz. The impedance of the two is different though yet they both use Knowles ED29689. HF2/3/5 is produced in China and ER4 is produced in the US though really there is no reason it can't be produced in China as long as proper care is paid to channel matching. The assembly of an Etymotic IEM is rather simple and isn't dealing with the complex crossovers that is common in multi-armature designs.
 
Of course any custom IEMs are going to have issues with channel matching due to the molds leaving different volumes of air in each canal. I won't argue that the high end CIEM market isn't a joke considering how many are just using 4 of the same model of driver in a 3 way crossover which produces its own problems and has marginal gains from an SPL perspective. It's overkill but 3 way designs are quite simple and I've wondered whether it's possible to build a universal barrel shell of something like the UERM for deep insertion which is ideal. It might take up too much space though. All the universal versions of custom IEMS take up far too much space and don't insert very deeply into the ear canal which means the resonance from a sealed ear canal is in a bad place from 7-10Khz.
 
Even the custom ear tips molded to your ears for Etymotic IEMS don't get the deep insertion needed that Etymotic advises (I think it's 0.5cc of air in the ear canal). Funnily enough in all the images from the Etymotic site of people using their IEMS it is nowhere near deep enough. The Linus review is rather funny but completely correct from the average consumer point of view. Learning how to insert them correctly and deeply is a learning experience and can be rather painful. I don't know if Etymotic include any documentation recommending to 'lube up' (edit: they do) with a bit of spit but it is the best approach to insertion as well as having the cable over the ear to avoid painful yanks when deeply inserted. Still deep insertion is best from a sound perspective if not an ergonomic one.
 

 

[Hutnicks]

 
the number of drivers is irrelevant, the resulting sound is. I went for the "wow much sound much drivers" thing, like so many people. being sold the usual "this driver for the bass this driver for mids, this one for trebles because one fails to extend", but then the er4 even today is still one of the very rare BA IEM to extend well. and the best actual extension I've heard on IEMs usually comes from single dynamic drivers, not multidrivers. so this is IMO marketing vs reality, multi driver can be cool and help fine tune a signature, but let's not make it a selling point when it's really not one.
 
about channel matching, or simply consistency from one model to the next, IMO that's the very reason why a device is professional. I never thought etymotic was anything special until I started measuring IEMs

.  if signature stability, channel matching and how close one model is from the next were the reasons to price IEMs, many 1000$+ IEMs would have to go hide under a rock in shame.
I'm not saying that people have to love the signature of the ER4, I personally don't and always EQ my all my etys, but price tag or number of drivers, is really not something etymotic should be blamed for IMO.

Well really,  if one is really hung up on the multi driver thing, for the price of some multi drivers you can buy three or four ER4 variants stick em in your ears and use different amps for each till you come up with that "special" mix. Bi and tri amping, bout time it hit the HeadFried market.

 

[Happytalk]

TenMoonsNorth, sounds like you need to manufacture your own product and try to make a profit, while covering all your costs.

 

[Francisk]

Seems like some hardcore Etymotic fans here are missing the point about the simple explanation regarding the cost of manufacturing an IEM. I think we can understand that all fans are biased merely because they are in love with a certain product. When one is so in love with a certain product, all they see is everything good about that product. Any reasonable and constructive criticism will be taken as product bashing.....very sad indeed. I wonder if any of you understand what's the meaning of consumer's rights.

 

[shotgunshane]

Judging the price of an iem strictly on its parts list is an excercise in futility. If that's your only criteria for judgement, you will never be happy, and frankly it's a waste of concern. All iems over $25 are overpriced based on that criteria alone.

 

[TenMoonsNorth]

I wonder as a hypothetical whether you could make Etymotic shells out of silicone. It would be more resistant to shock from it hitting objects and the flexibility would mold to the ear better for comfort.

 

[jason2087]

ER4P still GOAT to me. I include HF5 kind of too. 

 

[robm321]

^ I wouldn't argue with that.

 

[uchihaitachi]

When buying etymotic products, I pay the premium for the R&D behind their products. They are one of the few companies that focus on true fidelity, and fidelity is what I care about at the end of the day. Any person with a soldering iron and a rudimentary knowledge of how the drivers work can throw together the parts and make a decent sounding IEM. I will not mention them, but there are several companies on this forum, that do all their tuning by ear without serious technical considerations, and although it sounds quite good, on a closer hearing, something seems off, and once the measurements and specs come in, the results more than speak for themselves.

 

[lothric]

I'm curious as to how they achieved the bass boost that starts from 100Hz and going lower in frequency. I've never really seen that in any other traditional IEM (I did see it on a LG bluetooth headset but that uses DSP). That's pretty much my ideal sound, the ER-4S with a sub-bass boost. The ER-4P(T) has a slight warmth to it and it's good but I always preferred the ER-4S.

Looks like I'll be buying both.

 

[nk126]

Good Lordy!

@etydave You'd make a hell of a technical ambassador. Which, really, is a kind of marketing

 

[Happytalk]

Yes. Dave has gone beyond the call of duty. Thanks Dave! Proud er4s owner here. I have to be honest, I'll probably buy a second hand pair of the X's in a couple years. I'm an audio bottom feeder (musician with family), and try to keep things responsible. That being said, I'm looking forward to it!