[Hutnicks]

 
As long as I've been here, the target is the target.  We've long had our own internal metric for measuring accuracy score which for which 100% was absolute fidelity to the original source.  Nothing is perfect, but we've always tried to get as close as possible.  The ER4SR is as close to that as we've ever gotten.
 
The ER4XR is an admitted departure as we've intentionally added a bit of low end.  Clearly, this deviates a bit from true accuracy and is a bit towards listener preference (of which there have been many studies).  I guess this could be considered changing the goal for "consumer friendly tastes" but since we are still offering a reference grade flat earphone we felt we could offer something that might appeal to some folks that wanted a bit more low end.
 
You are right, I did miss the second part about natural tone.  Generally speaking, I've always felt that, if the recording is reproduced correctly, the accurate tone of the instruments should be properly conveyed.  Beyond that, I'm not sure how I'd answer that question.  I'll have to mull that over.
 
 

As a long time (search the thread for the serial number) ER4S user. The only possible complaint I might have with the new breed would be mis marketing. The seeming trend to take the honest approach , let marketing run with it and try to "expand market share by enticing new users" inevitably winds up with either miasmic statements of performance or outright delusional wishes of performance.
 
I Trust Etymotic, implicitly, it was 15 years after I bought the ER4S that I went with the HF5 as a companion and that was for a simple reason of trust. Slammhammer in the in ear market is always all over the map trying to please everyone. Beyer takes the like our sound or Pee Off attitude. Etymotic is to me a consistent "in the price range we are trying to give you unprejudiced representation of the recording you are listening to. Doesnt really fit on a baseball hat as a slogan, but perhaps we won't lie to you might work.
So, to that end, in big bold lettering on both your web site and the packaging, State the performance factors of each product. "Boosted lower end to XXY freq, or Rolled off Top, or extended whatevers."
 
You have an opportunity here to set a precedent in the same way you did with the initial ER4 series.
 
I eagerly await the next rev, the obvious "Black Swan" edition.

 

[AnyDave]

 
As a long time (search the thread for the serial number) ER4S user. The only possible complaint I might have with the new breed would be mis marketing. The seeming trend to take the honest approach , let marketing run with it and try to "expand market share by enticing new users" inevitably winds up with either miasmic statements of performance or outright delusional wishes of performance.
 
I Trust Etymotic, implicitly, it was 15 years after I bought the ER4S that I went with the HF5 as a companion and that was for a simple reason of trust. Slammhammer in the in ear market is always all over the map trying to please everyone. Beyer takes the like our sound or Pee Off attitude. Etymotic is to me a consistent "in the price range we are trying to give you unprejudiced representation of the recording you are listening to. Doesnt really fit on a baseball hat as a slogan, but perhaps we won't lie to you might work.
So, to that end, in big bold lettering on both your web site and the packaging, State the performance factors of each product. "Boosted lower end to XXY freq, or Rolled off Top, or extended whatevers."
 
You have an opportunity here to set a precedent in the same way you did with the initial ER4 series.
 
I eagerly await the next rev, the obvious "Black Swan" edition.

 
I *really* appreciate this post.  It's nice to know that there is value in the approach we've taken over the years. 
 
As an engineer, I'm a lousy marketing person.    I tend to eschew flowery prose, but that tends to be the norm.  I'm not sure that's entirely avoidable, but we've never been known for deceptive or overblown marketing (at least I've never heard of that complaint) so I'm assuming we'll do it right. 

 

[luisdent]

I agree wholeheartedly. I feel like etymotic is making a product to improve it and meet certain user based goals. I don't think that is hype. We get reasonable information before the product is out and their own engineers talking to us and not just marketing but discussing the earphones in reasonable detail.

They offer the best quality earphone, sonically and physically, at a reasonable price well below most "high-end" earphones, at much higher prices, with much inferior sound.

Most people have their er4 for many years and are "loyal" fans of the product. And when they break out of warranty (and i assume this hasn't changed) you get great service or replacement at half the cost of a new product no matter how long you've had it.

And if you deal with their customer service, they do everything to help and are always accomodating. Maybe I'm just ranting now, but they almost deserve that people buy these new models just out of principal! Haha

Now just add a really sweet portable carrying case.

 

[luisdent]

Just out of curiosity, what will the cable connector look like? I love the durability of the er4s cable connector and I love right angle connectors. Is it still right angle?
 
The most common complaint is that it doesn't fit a lot of cases with small headphone port holes. Is it a similar size or has that been redesigned per chance?

 

[AnyDave]

  Just out of curiosity, what will the cable connector look like? I love the durability of the er4s cable connector and I love right angle connectors. Is it still right angle?
 
The most common complaint is that it doesn't fit a lot of cases with small headphone port holes. Is it a similar size or has that been redesigned per chance?

 
The 3.5mm plug still has a right angle.  We recognize that there have been issues with the older plug and smartphone cases, so there is an area of the new plug with a reduced OD so that it will fit work with smaller headphone port holes (not uncommon in cases).  I can't promise that it will fit in absolutely everything out there, but I tried it in an number of different cases, including thicker ones such as some of the Otter Box cases, and it worked with all of them.

 

[HiFiChris]

 
As long as I've been here, the target is the target.  We've long had our own internal metric for measuring accuracy score which for which 100% was absolute fidelity to the original source.  Nothing is perfect, but we've always tried to get as close as possible.  The ER4SR is as close to that as we've ever gotten.
 

 
Dave, I am super glad to hear that. 

When I heard about the new models coming up, my initial fear was that you guys went for a slightly different target response with sub-bass boost or somewhat recessed middle highs. Super glad you didn't, as to my ears the ER•4S is still the most neutral in-ear I have heard, all of the other claimed neutral ones have more warmth and/or a dip in the middle highs and upper mids, making them less diffuse-field neutral when listening to sine sweeps - with all honesty, Ety is still king of neutrality and I am very thankful for what Mead Killion has brought up in the past 20+ years. Although I have various technically superior in-ears, the ER•4S is still my favourite, exactly because of its super neutral sound.
 
 
I've got two things I'd like to know though:
 
1) I am not sure if I missed that from your previous posts, but is there a specific reason why you went for metal instead of plastic bodies for the new models?
 
2) I know it probably won't happen, but it would be nice if there was an even larger size of triple-flange tips included so that people with large ear canals don't need to modify the current model to get a good and deep seal. I don't like using the barrel foam tips and for the silicone triple-flanges, to maintain the same ear tip length, I have to cut off the smallest flange, put it on the nozzle first and then put on the double-flange (as seen in the red circle). Only with that, I can get a deep seal past the second bend in my large ears.
 
PS: It is really great to have you here on the forums! 

 

 

[AnyDave]

   
Dave, I am super glad to hear that. 

When I heard about the new models coming up, my initial fear was that you guys went for a slightly different target response with sub-bass boost or somewhat recessed middle highs. Super glad you didn't, as to my ears the ER•4S is still the most neutral in-ear I have heard, all of the other claimed neutral ones have more warmth and/or a dip in the middle highs and upper mids, making them less diffuse-field neutral when listening to sine sweeps - with all honesty, Ety is still king of neutrality and I am very thankful for what Mead Killion has brought up in the past 20+ years. Although I have various technically superior in-ears, the ER•4S is still my favourite, exactly because of its super neutral sound.
 
 
I've got two things I'd like to know though:
 
1) I am not sure if I missed that from your previous posts, but is there a specific reason why you went for metal instead of plastic bodies for the new models?
 
2) I know it probably won't happen, but it would be nice if there was an even larger size of triple-flange tips included so that people with large ear canals don't need to modify the current model to get a good and deep seal. I don't like using the barrel foam tips and for the silicone triple-flanges, to maintain the same ear tip length, I have to cut off the smallest flange, put it on the nozzle first and then put on the double-flange (as seen in the red circle). Only with that, I can get a deep seal past the second bend in my large ears.
 
PS: It is really great to have you here on the forums! 

 

 
Hey HifiChris,
 
1.)  We went with metal for a couple of reasons.  The first is it is less prone to breakage than plastic parts.  The other reason is that it looks and feels a lot nicer (at least I think it does).
 
2.)  Honestly, I think it's probably unlikely that we would introduce a larger 3-flange.  We don't get a lot of requests for that.  Have you tried the monster yellow foam tips?
 
Thanks for the warm welcome.  I'm having fun with this.  I'm sure my rate of posting will probably slow down a bit but I plan on hanging around.

 

[HiFiChris]

@EtyDave
 
Thanks for your reply.
 
I'm really no fan of foam tips, but I have tried the yellow foam tips. They didn't get me a good seal and felt scratchy. They didn't work for Shure or Westone in-ears for me and don't work for Ety IEMs either.
The best foam tips for the Ety were the included cylindrical foam tips, but well, as I said, I am no foam-tip person. 

 
 
It's no problem for me as my modified triple-flange tips maintain the correct length and therefore don't alter sound, I just thought it would be cool if Etymotic did a real, approved version of larer triple-flange tips.

 

[luisdent]

Yeah, tips are tough. I like the grey foam the most myself (didn't always) but the silicon lasts longer. However, the small silicon is harder to get a full seal and can be "pokey" in the deep ear canal walls. But the large silicon tips are too big at the biggest flange, so they start to deform and warp very quickly and then lose the ability to seal also.

Something in between would be ideal, or maybe at least a different rate of increase from the smallest to largest flange on each? So they're less triangular in slope...

But alas, having 20 different available types of tips is probably not feasible cost-wise, and i realize certain tips are probably more popular. :-/ so they make more of those.

 

[ClieOS]

It is a bit late now, but since you are here, Dave, I'll really like you to take a look at this if you guys at Ety haven't already done so: the modified SSMCX connector used by JAYS. on its new q-JAYS (*and also used by A&K / Final Audio on another IEM).
 

 

 
 
(1) It is also very small, so size won't likely going to be a problem if you want to fit it inside something like a ER4 driver housing (as q-JAYS isn't bigger than ER4 by much and it is a dual BA). (2) The added screw top means it will fit tightly and countersinking won't be too much of an issue. (3) the o-ring will both give it the friction it needs not to easily loosen or spin freely as well as making sure dust is unlikely to get in.
 
It is one of the best removable connector I have seen on IEM, so perhaps you guys can also consider it on any future project.

 

[Berkovajazz]

It is one of the best removable connector I have seen on IEM

Totally agreed

 

[Dougr33]

Question/suggestion: It used to be a lot easier to tell R from L when the connectors were red and blue.  The problem with the new ones is in low light. Most over-ears headphones I've used have some physical 'thing' like some raised dots on one side so when you pick them up you can tell right from left even if you're blind (might be why they do that!).  Anyway, would be nice if there was some physical attribute that allowed differentiating between L/R in low/no light.

 

[luisdent]

Question/suggestion: It used to be a lot easier to tell R from L when the connectors were red and blue.  The problem with the new ones is in low light. Most over-ears headphones I've used have some physical 'thing' like some raised dots on one side so when you pick them up you can tell right from left even if you're blind (might be why they do that!).  Anyway, would be nice if there was some physical attribute that allowed differentiating between L/R in low/no light.

I love the red/blue of my classic model. One method I've always liked personally is a small bump on one channel. You can find the right or left channel in the dark that way. Some people put a dot of superglue on one side. But a manufactured bump would be more durable.

 

[AnyDave]

  It is a bit late now, but since you are here, Dave, I'll really like you to take a look at this if you guys at Ety haven't already done so: the modified SSMCX connector used by JAYS. on its new q-JAYS (*and also used by A&K / Final Audio on another IEM).
 

 

 
 
(1) It is also very small, so size won't likely going to be a problem if you want to fit it inside something like a ER4 driver housing (as q-JAYS isn't bigger than ER4 by much and it is a dual BA). (2) The added screw top means it will fit tightly and countersinking won't be too much of an issue. (3) the o-ring will both give it the friction it needs not to easily loosen or spin freely as well as making sure dust is unlikely to get in.
 
It is one of the best removable connector I have seen on IEM, so perhaps you guys can also consider it on any future project.

 
 
I haven't seen one of those in person yet, but that certainly does look like a nicely designed connector.
 
FWIW, there are some dual drivers that are incredibly small (as small as the single driver we use in the ER4).  They are usually sandwiched together and share the same sound outlet. 

 

[AnyDave]

  Question/suggestion: It used to be a lot easier to tell R from L when the connectors were red and blue.  The problem with the new ones is in low light. Most over-ears headphones I've used have some physical 'thing' like some raised dots on one side so when you pick them up you can tell right from left even if you're blind (might be why they do that!).  Anyway, would be nice if there was some physical attribute that allowed differentiating between L/R in low/no light.

 
Admittedly, the channel marking/color coding is one of the hardest areas to make everybody happy.  Some folks love the red/blue because they can easily identify the channels.  Back when we had red and blue we got a large number of complaints because people thought they were bit aesthetically challenged. 
 
On the new ones, there is a raised section on the strain relief marked L and R.  They are only marked on the inside (the side that faces your pinna) so you should be able identify them in the dark by feel.  My only concern is that the lettering may not be high enough, so we may increase it at some point if we get a lot of feedback from users that they would like it higher.