[twister6]

Here is my 2c to add to DAC discussion. 4-5 years ago there were clear lines separating entry level, mid-fi, and summit-fi DAPs, based on design and performance around specific DAC model. As a matter of fact, similar to IEM driver wars (more is better), we went through a cycle of some manufacturers focusing on DAC model to distinguish their flagships. AK4490 was at the top, then they had to switch to AK4493 which soon got replaced by AK4497 until it was a must to have AK4499 to consider yourself a true flagship. Other manufacturers put marketing aside and focused on implementation including the most important part of the sound shaping in the DAP - the amplifier stage design. Take a look at DX200, DX220, and DX220 MAX, spanning over almost 4 years and using the same ES9028Pro, that part of the design didn't change while the sound performance went up from one release to the other. Or another great example is Dethonray DTR1 with its AK4490 implementation that sounds better than some other DAPs with 4497/4499.

My point, lines are blurred now (and I love that video ) between tiers of the DAPs where components used in so called "entry" level might be still of a higher end flagship status, but other aspects of the design and features are scaled down to distinguish between entry/mid-fi/flagship. Due to AKM factory fire, using AK DACs now is not the best idea, and it sounds like iBasso decided to take a break from ES DACs and focus more on CS43198 implemented in DX160. As many others already said, from an audio performance perspective, DX160 punches above and beyond its price point. But we have no idea how it will sound and be implemented in DX300. Personally, I don't even want to speculate until I hear it because it makes no sense to draw a conclusion about DX300 sound based on DX160 reference. At this point, DAC name and model is just a paper spec, so let's see how it will be implemented in the design because based on the last 4-5 years of watching and testing iBasso DAPs I noticed they are not into marketing hype of the DAC model and instead focusing more on implementation and amplifier design.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

the most important part of the sound shaping in the DAP - the amplifier stage design.

Exactly, Sony doesn’t have a dac Chip and output power is very low compared to other flagship daps. More demanding headphones or iems can’t be powered with the low power output.

One thing you got “wrong” Ak4493 came after the Ak4497 even though it doesn’t have the better specs.

Some dap chips however do have amps built in them and can help VREF with large caps requirements by the manufacturer of these chips. Also better transistors and more of them.

I believe that cirrus has a built in amp chip one as well!

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah, I didn’t think any Walkman would use DAC , but I didn’t know much about that one lol

 

[ehjie]

I'll wait for the tube amped model, to supersede my 229.
Maybe it'll come or not...

 

[twister6]

Exactly, Sony doesn’t have a dac Chip and output power is very low compared to other flagship daps. More demanding headphones or iems can’t be powered with the low power output.

One thing you got “wrong” Ak4493 came after the Ak4497 even though it doesn’t have the better specs.

Some dap chips however do have amps built in them and can help VREF with large caps requirements by the manufacturer of these chips. Also better transistors and more of them.

I believe that cirrus has a built in amp chip one as well!

No, that was not a mistake when I said AK4493 and AK4497 True, AK4497 was released in 2016 and AK4493 in 2017, but I intentionally said "some manufacturers", FiiO M11 (AK4493), FiiO M11 Pro (AK4497).

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Yeah, I didn’t think any Walkman would use DAC , but I didn’t know much about that one lol

Sony sure did use a dac Chip with the DMP-Z1 and would standard flagship output power rails and then jacked up the price to 8-9 grand. Haha

 

[Whitigir]

I'll wait for the tube amped model, to supersede my 229.
Maybe it'll come or not...

It could, since the design allows much larger platform to be attached. It is just a matter of “if” Ibasso going to do it lol

 

[immortalsoul]

Now that I see Ibasso is using CS43198 I am really interested in this dap but I am really hoping is not going to be neutral, I hope is going to have some character and emotions, not just great technicalities

 

[Whitigir]

Sony sure did use a dac Chip with the DMP-Z1 and would standard flagship output power rails and then jacked up the price to 8-9 grand. Haha

The DMP is practically not a Walkman . It is Digital Media Player as the name suggested. So I still don’t think Walkman used Cirrus.

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

No, that was not a mistake when I said AK4493 and AK4497 True, AK4497 was released in 2016 and AK44

Zishan DSD DIY Budget dap uses an ak4497 before it used a Ak4493 and it cost 150 dollars while the Ak4493 Z1 cost 60 bucks. There is an entire modding community that’s turned their sound into a flagship with just 50 dollars worth of hardware improvements. I’m not joking.

Spoiler: AK4493

(AKM) has developed the AK4493EQ, a 32-bit stereo premium D/A converter, and it will be available on the market in Jan. 2018, as an upgrade from the AK4490EQ, which is adopted by many audio products since it was launched in 2014. [\SPOILER]

 

[CobraMan]

Since it doesn't look like anyone else has provided this yet - details on CS43198 can be found here (see the product data sheet for all the details): https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs43198/

Engineering/Computer Science degree not included!

Enjoy,
Tim

 

[Whitigir]

Since it doesn't look like anyone else has provided this yet - details on CS43198 can be found here (see the product data sheet for all the details): https://www.cirrus.com/products/cs43198/

Engineering/Computer Science degree not included!

Enjoy,
Tim

LOL! Good information there! I am trying to get 299 pages until release date, but look like I will be missing it by couple hundred+
Another interesting thing is that CL on Dx160 had real differences between digital filters, unlike ESS9028Pro and AK4499EQ

 

[Forsaked]

Basically the same chip as in the DX160 but 4 times?
I am really interested!

 

[Whitigir]

Basically the same chip as in the DX160 but 4 times?
I am really interested!

Yepe, with FPGA , dual power supplies splits into independent rails. Dual batteries, modular amp design

 

[HeyManslowdown97]

Another interesting thing is that CL on Dx160 had real differences between digital filters, unlike ESS9028Pro and AK4499EQ

Even with higher sampling rates?... they usually don’t work at a certain sample rate.