[Somebody007]

So I'm a beginning audiophile and well I love music so I splashed out on some cash on hd 650s, asus xonar d2x sound card and some cheap amps.

Now I heard hd650s need a decent amp so I built a cmoy to begin with seeing as I though it would be a nice learning experience. Then I went on and bought the pro-ject headbox II. I also have an old yamaha ax-500 stereo amp and well the integrated amp of my sound card(apperently it doesn't have an integrated amp, but then the description says it has a "powerful amplifier".

Now my problem is I hear absolutely no difference between any of the amps(including running it bassically unamped of the sound card). It does sound better than running it of my ipod but honestly if it didn't then well I just should have bought 10euro earbuds I guess.

So can anyone describe their method in comparing amps so I can try spot differences? Are there any songs to be reccomended for comparing amps?

And lastly what do people mean when an amp doesn't have enough power? How does this affect the sound or does it just change the volume?

Thanks for reading 

 

[dan1son]

Well in the case of your Sennheisers it should be pretty obvious that your iPod can't power it enough (it won't get loud enough).  Other things you may notice with too little "power" is slight distortions, primarily in the bass, or even slightly softer low end bass either of which is due to the power rails dropping off too soon. 
 
To be perfectly honest, you probably won't notice a huge difference going from amp to amp.  Some people will swear the differences are huge, but they're quite tiny, and should be.  An amp should do nothing but provide the signal as clean as possible with enough power and overhead to move the drivers exactly where they need to be.  They should also be hiss free (which you might not notice anyway with high impedance headphones) and interference free. 
 
A lot of people buy different amps for features rather than overall sound quality since it is awfully close once you get above onboard or headphone jacks on a DAP.  Crossfeed, bass boosts, DACs, battery life, opamp rolling abilities, etc. are all reasons to consider one over another.  If you get really good at listening to details (primarily background sounds, cymbals, string instruments, voices) you may start to pick up small nuances from one amp or opamp to another and find a set that matches your headphones better than another.  I find I need to listen for a while to really notice anything... and even then it's more of a "Darn that sounds nice" or "that sounds too tinny." 
 
Good luck... remember to listen to the music. 

 

[Equus]

I just usually listen to music I'm very familiar with and that I like a lot.  That way I know some of the nuances that dan1son mentions, and I can also tell if I feel at all involved in the song.  If it's a fun upbeat song and I don't find myself wanting to tap my foot or a dramatic song that doesn't move me somehow, then I know something isn't quite right for me.
 
It's all totally subjective anyway.  I have a good friend who is a very critical thinker, and while he can hear differences between his free earbuds that came with his iPod and my headphones and earbuds, he doesn't find the difference significant enough for him to justify buying anything else.  If you don't find yourself hearing the difference or think it's enough to warrant purchasing anything else, more power to you.
 
I'd also make sure that you give things enough time for your ears and head to get used to the sound.  As mentioned, the differences could be subtle (or inconsequential, depending on your taste) and may not be noticed at first.

 

[Somebody007]

Yeah like you said my ipod makes the sound simply distorted and not loud enough, but I really don't notice this with any of the other amplifiers(of course I have no good reference point seeing as the headbox is the best I have)

It seems though you guys go into this with feeling and without really any systematic way of determining differences objectively(sorry if it sounds condescending, not my intention). In that case I did feel my cmoy felt more airy(less enclosed if you know what I mean) and I start noticing  beautiful thumping bass in every song, I was sure it wasn't there on the previous amps but then I checked and it was -_-, but I'm quite sure that it's a good deal tighter and more prominent on the cmoy(comparisons here are from yamaha to cmoy haven't had time to test the rest). Another thing I noticed is that the sound seems to be closer with the better amps(on the same volume) as if on the low quality amps however much you turn up the volume the sound will come from next to your ears as opposed to being in your head, is such a thing even possible or am I just rambling?

I used your technique before Equus and even though like I said I think I feel differences like the bass quite easily  it's hard to confirm seeing as you need to reroute the cables and re-adjust the volume by which time you've forgotten the exact  feeling/sound(when I compared Ipod integrated dac to sound card it was easy just change input channel on amp while playing the same song and bingo you can see the differences like black spots on a white canvas). So I feel the bass is much nicer(it's seems to me even hard to pinpoint differences can have a huge impact on your listening enjoyment), but then again could it be a placebo?
 
I wanted this to be another nice hobby, because building amplifiers makes me euforic( I mean really how nice is it build something that produces better sound than most people you know have ever heard from scratch ). Then again if differences are so tiny might just go back to building and modding PCs lol.

Maybe I'm being far to scientific and I should just sit back and enjoy the music

Thanks a lot for the input

 

[Somebody007]

Maybe slightly off topic,I don't want to insult but I find that some people here on head-fi seem very overconfident in their knowledge of amps,... and well frankly I think some of them haven't a clue what they are on about. I mean you see people giving comparisons about amps they've heard briefly 2 years apart, even if they knows tons and tons about audio can you really give an accurate comparison with such subtle differences when you have so little experience with the amps?

Of course I'm not one to talk really, but when you read things like: "It's horrible never buy it a cmoy is far better" and "Beautiful little amp, a real bargain if you're looking for an amp in this price-range certainly consider this" about the same amp(these things were said about the headbox, but whathifi gave 5 stars and I trust them lol) then you start to wonder.

 

[Equus]

Haha...well, it is somewhat systematic, but about as systematic as asking you which brand and flavor of ice cream you like the most.  Can you describe or measure a sensation?  To a certain extent, yes, but measurements and descriptions only mean so much without experience.
 
And what you hear might be placebo and it might not.  You can always try to get a second opinion from someone who you trust.  One of my non-head-fi friends just listened to my new amp this weekend and liked it a lot.  He isn't an audiophile, but he used to do a lot of work with A/V systems in college, so he had some feedback on how the sound was being presented (mostly clarity and sound floor).
 
EDIT - @Somebody007 - and that's why I always try to stress how subjective this all is.  I love my new amp so far, but I'm not going to evangelize it as the only thing to get out there.  Especially if I have no idea what the audience's preferences are, as I know I'm pretty particular about how I want things to sound.  It's like arguing if chocolate is the best flavor of ice cream.

 

[sidel]

I wouldn't invest too much time or interest in actively looking for differences.  Consider it a blessing.  

An amplifier isn't necessary supposed to color the sound,  so IMO if they're sounding the same to you and there isn't an extreme design/price difference everything is just working as intended.  You'll likely notice some nuances eventually.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Frankly speaking your source is the problem....that Xonar SC is a very poor dac...sure it's good enough for PC speakers but for a HQ set of cans and a half decent amp it falls way way WAY short. A good idea might be to invest in a DIY DAC kit and use the Xonar as transport only (preferably taking the SPDIF signal out from it to your DIY DAC). You can build a really decent little stand alone DAC for around 150 USD that will put the Xonar card to shame and it will demonstrate differences in amp choice rather easily.
 
When I started out with the head fi rig I had an Auzen Prelude SC and a Little Dot MK III tube amp (into a used set of HD650s).....the analog out from the Prelude card was ok but it paled in comparison to a proper outboard dac. A huge difference in my case. Stick with your current amp and headphones...get a DAC and then report back. I bet you'll be singing a whole other tune after that....
 
 
Peete.

 

[aRRR]

Well Somebody007, I started out pretty much like you. I had a HD555, a HD650 and an amplifier (Meier Corda Opera) and to be honest, at the time I did not found much if any difference between my computer output and the Opera amplifier and both headphones. So I sold the HD650 and Meier Corda Opera and have tried a bunch of other things and headphones. Now couple years later I can easily spot differences in tubes/cables. So it kind of takes a bit of practice and experience. But to be honest with you, the differences are very minimal and sometimes not worth the cost for me.

 

[lbj]

Quote:

I wouldn't invest too much time or interest in actively looking for differences.  Consider it a blessing.  

 

Yeah, consider yourself lucky.  Don't go chasing vanishingly small differences in equipment - just enjoy the music.
 

 

[Happy Camper]

Well Somebody007, I started out pretty much like you. I had a HD555, a HD650 and an amplifier (Meier Corda Opera) and to be honest, at the time I did not found much if any difference between my computer output and the Opera amplifier and both headphones. So I sold the HD650 and Meier Corda Opera and have tried a bunch of other things and headphones. Now couple years later I can easily spot differences in tubes/cables. So it kind of takes a bit of practice and experience. But to be honest with you, the differences are very minimal and sometimes not worth the cost for me.

So you caught enough of a difference to get K1000s so you learned well pirate. aRRR!!!!!

 

[Stitch]

My hearing has become "better" when i started listening to good gear. Better as in i can hear slight details that a lot people just dont hear, even with slightly damaged hearing.
Hearing the difference takes practice, experience and time.

 

[Happy Camper]

My hearing has become "better" when i started listening to good gear. Better as in i can hear slight details that a lot people just dont hear, even with slightly damaged hearing.
Hearing the difference takes practice, experience and time.

I so agree with this. There are people here that have been listening to music, gear and bands for 50+ years.

 

[estreeter]

This reads like another 'lets throw those babies out with the bathwater' threads.
 
'*I* cant hear a difference, therefore the rest of you must be on whacky weed' is getting a little tired around these parts of late. In the words of that great man, Meat Loaf, the world sux and I want my money back.

 

[Uncle Erik]

You haven't heard a good spread of amps yet. They all have their own character, though I find tubes to have more variation.

It is possible to demonstrate this, too. If you go to HeadRoom, you can find impedance curves for headphones. That means that it becomes more and less efficient over the frequency spectrum. Well, amps have output impedance curves, too. The power they deliver varies by frequency. Lay those curves over each other and you'll get a unique power delivery/consumption fingerprint for each amp. This is why two 500mW amps can sound different with the same headphone. No mumbo-jumbo, you can see this on ordinary test gear.

Anyhow, you built a CMoy. Good for you! If you want to hear something quite different for your HD-650, order a Bottlehead Crack kit for $200. You have the skills to build it. And I promise that you'll notice your HD-650 behaving like you haven't heard it before.