[Throdd]

Hey guys, I'm new here.  Today was my first visit to this board, because I wanted to look into some good budget headphones that I wouldn't feel bad about taking to school with me and using with my laptop.
 
Before you give me "that look," the Bose set were a Christmas gift.  From my dad.  Warm and fuzzy feelings are associated with them, so don't hate.

With that said, I've been phenomenally happy with them anyway.  However, in just the hour I've spent on this board, I see Bose taking a lot of flak from the audiophiles in the room (meaning everyone).

So, I'd really like to know: why?  What makes my headphones inferior?  How would they compare to the Audio-Technica M50's I hear so much about, for instance?  (So far, they're the ones I'm looking at as my "go out" headphones.)

Like I said, I've been very happy with my headphones.  I don't recall the brand name of the headphones I used previously, but they were probably (very) old-school audiophile-favorite headphones themselves.  When I switched, I was switching from 8-10 year old headphones to my new Bose headphones, and I certainly noticed a change.  In all honesty, I might have called it a (VERY SLIGHT) downgrade from my old headphones, but one of the phones didn't work on that set anymore and I needed the replacement.

I'm a music junkie.  I'm sure it matters, so I'll tell you, I listen to a lot of melodic metal, mostly from Europe and specifically a lot from Finland.  Sonata Arctica, Nightwish, Blind Guardian, and others that I can't remember off-hand.  I spend most of my time on the computer logged into Pandora (inb4 more of "that look").  I'm also a pretty serious gamer, but I don't feel the need for 5.1 or 7.1 Logitech/Razer headsets because A) I don't need the microphone and B) I don't generally play first-person shooters, so the surround doesn't affect me.

My primary concern is music quality.

So, all in all, I love my headphones to death, and I've had them for nearly two years now without even the slightest issue.  But what is your take?

TL;DR--tell me why I should get Audio-Technica M50's.  Or should I?
 
Thanks, yo.
-Chris

 

[cifani090]

Because their better than Bose... thats why!

 

[Throdd]

Quote:

Because their better than Bose... thats why!

That's really not helpful, you know.  I was hoping to get someone who would actually explain the differences.  I understand that such a difference needs to be heard/felt, but for what can be put into words, I'd appreciate the wording.

Thanks for the reply though.  Appreciate it.
 

 

[Throdd]

For the record: When I talk about "budget," I'm looking in the $150-200 range.  I don't really want to spend more than that, because I want to prepare for the possibility that something may occur which will render me unable to use them.  (theft, destruction, etc.)  I intend to travel daily with them, so I don't want to put that much money in danger.

(Yes, I realize that's hypocritical, considering the $750 laptop I intend to carry with them.  Part of it is that I'm just a poor college student.)
 
Hope someone can provide some serious advice.  I would really appreciate it.

 

[tool462]

I am relatively noobish here, but the general consensus as to why Bose are rarely, if ever, recommended is the outlandish price and marketing they put on products. 
 
I draw comparison between Bose and Apple, they have great looking products and very good marketing, but there is ALWAYS a significantly cheaper and better performing alternative.
 
I would surely love to recommend a better headphone than the Quiet Comfort but I have never heard them, I've heard the Bose AE2 ($150, old roomate had them) from the same source as my currently un-modded Grado SR60i ($65) and the Grado's are so much better for metal it surprised me quite a bit.  I listen to primarily scandinavian death/melodic metal as well, from Foobar 2000 through a NuForce uDac 2.
 
Keep in mind your headphones are only as good as the source, so Pandora will limit the difference you will hear between higher end headphones since the source quality isn't that great.

 

[Throdd]

 
Quote:

I am relatively noobish here, but the general consensus as to why Bose are rarely, if ever, recommended is the outlandish price and marketing they put on products. 
 
I draw comparison between Bose and Apple, they have great looking products and very good marketing, but there is ALWAYS a significantly cheaper and better performing alternative.

That's totally understandable, and I think I agree with the assessment.  I certainly agree regarding Apple, as I'm pretty fluent in the PC market.  Not so much in... head-fi.  I requested Bose for the gift because it was what I knew was good, much like a customer would purchase an Apple iPad.

Not necessarily a mistake, but there are probably better options if you just do some research--and you might even save some money.  Sound about right?

Still hoping that someone can provide me a more direct comparison to the M50's--or at least describe their experience with the M50's to me.  Thanks a lot for the info though!  I'm trying to learn.
 

 

[cFran]

I can't go m50 specific, but in general what people tend to like about headphones around these here parts are (relative) neutrality and clarity. Neutrality, just to fill in a little bit in case you didn't know, seeing as how you're new to the community, is about having none of the frequencies particularly boosted or spiked, in turn creating a sound different from the recordings intent. And clarity is well, clarity. When climbing the metaphorical ladder of headphones, bose tends to get placed lower down than the price bracket would suggest. This is because (at least to my understanding, i've spent nominal time with bose) they do not have a very neutral sound. From what I know, I think the bass tends to be a little elevated, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone) they have some extra reverb, reducing clarity. So what you could expect with a headphone getting praise from head-fiers, such as the m50s, the music would be more true to the original recording. If I'm right about my recollection of bose sound, the m50's would sound clearer as well.
 
Hope I am a little bit helpful, if not at least i tried. I'm mostly just tired and wanted to share stuff I guess. 

 

[Throdd]

Quote:

I can't go m50 specific, but in general what people tend to like about headphones around these here parts are (relative) neutrality and clarity. Neutrality, just to fill in a little bit in case you didn't know, seeing as how you're new to the community, is about having none of the frequencies particularly boosted or spiked, in turn creating a sound different from the recordings intent. And clarity is well, clarity. When climbing the metaphorical ladder of headphones, bose tends to get placed lower down than the price bracket would suggest. This is because (at least to my understanding, i've spent nominal time with bose) they do not have a very neutral sound. From what I know, I think the bass tends to be a little elevated, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone) they have some extra reverb, reducing clarity. So what you could expect with a headphone getting praise from head-fiers, such as the m50s, the music would be more true to the original recording. If I'm right about my recollection of bose sound, the m50's would sound clearer as well.
 
Hope I am a little bit helpful, if not at least i tried. I'm mostly just tired and wanted to share stuff I guess. 

Hey man, thanks for taking the time.  That's a big help.
 
I've also read some things about having the "right source" to play the music.  Do I need special audio drivers on my laptop?  A "middleman" device between the laptop and my headphones?  Or, really, is that relevant in any way--and if it is, is there any way I can improve it?
 
Is the 192kbps provided by Pandora One good enough to be worth investing in the headphones you praise, or is that going to change my experience significantly?

Are there any settings I could tweak through my audio driver software to produce sound more similar to the neutrality and clarity that M50's (or other suggested headphones) would provide?

 

[cFran]

If you are running your audio from a computer, lots of people like to either upgrade their soundcard, or buy an external D/A converter. A D/A converter is what changes your digital music on your computer, to an electrical signal. Most computers have one built in, but external ones can do it 'better'. This, in my opinion, shouldn't be your primary concern though. The difference is much more subtle than some people make it out to be. But it is an improvement, and they can be a bit expensive. ATH m50's don't tend to need any sort of extra amplification either. Both a D/A converter and an amp could be considered in your future if you want to continue your quest for audio quality, but aren't a necessity at the moment.
 
If possible, try and get music at a higher bitrate. 192 kbps is a standard for a lot of people, but 320 kbps, or a lossless codec such as ALAC, or FLAC tend to be preferred when using better equipment. These codecs will further increase quality. So if you are able to purchase music on cd and rip it onto your computer using one of these methods, its preferable to listening to lower bitrate music. This is a considerable jump in my opinion, and is almost vital in enjoying your music through a higher end set of headphones. Lossless music does take up a lot more room on your computer though, as the bitrate tends to be between 700 to 1411 (5 times ish the information (not all can be heard by the human ear) will be played, however) 
 
So as a summary, At this point I think your best bet would be to up the quality of source music (bitrate) either by borrowing cd's from friends, ripping ones you have, or buying some into either 320 kbps, FLAC or ALAC. The next step would be to upgrade the headphones, and enjoy. When you have some extra cash later on, a usb D/A converter (DAC) could be added into your signal chain and you could get that little bit extra clarity, and then after that, I'd add an amp, possibly. No modification should need to be done on your computer I believe. 
 
 

 

[steven_1026]

As mentioned already, the main problem with Bose is that it is overpriced for the sound quality and since you got it as a gift does it really matter what the priceerformance ratio is? That being said, I enjoyed the sound of the QuietComfort more than the M50s. Although, I only had a short time with the QuietComforts and I was never quite a fan of the M50 sound. To be specific, I've always thought the M50 to sound compressed and to have poor separation.
 
There are many good portable headphones in the $150-200 price range. Some that come to mind immediately are Denon ah-d1000/d1100 and Phiaton ms300/ms400. I believe the Denon ah-d1000 are discontinued, but you can still find them in the used market and usually for $60-90. These headphones are also more portable than the M50, less bulky and shorter cable. 

 

[Throdd]

Hey, thanks!

My thing is that I want something that's going to work well with my laptop--if I want to listen to music (I will) while away from home, going to class, breaks for lunch, etc.

So I'm starting with an entirely new device: My $750 laptop.  I can't speak for the audio hardware it has, as I'm not sure what to look for--but I imagine it's just a standard onboard audio chip.  It's an ASUS laptop, if that means anything to you!
 
I currently enjoy the sound quality.  Not as much as I do on my desktop, but I still do very much.  I am hoping for a similar experience without having to bring my CURRENT headphones with me.  I don't want to jeopardize my $300 headphones that I hold dear, even if they might not be the best.  That's why I'm looking for $150-$200 headphones that I'll be (a little) less attached to.

Additionally, I like the convenience of Pandora, but I do have a collection of 320kbps music for when I want to listen to particular artists.  So that's not out of the question.  No FLAC or other lossless formats, though.  Not sure where to obtain or how to play that.

If you recommend building up my own 320+ kbps library, what media player program do you suggest for housing that music and creating/accessing playlists easily?  I'm up to the task, but it's not something I've explored before, with Pandora right there (and my subscription paid).
 
So I'm currently looking at the M50's and, perhaps, a D/A converter.  What kind of effects would a D/A converter have on the battery life of my laptop?  Mine is packing an 8-cell battery and boasting the ability to last a whole school day without an outlet--is the converter a pretty bad drain?
 
I wouldn't mind a semi-long cable, because I would probably like to listen to music from my laptop messenger back (around my hip area) up to my ears.  And bulky headphones are no issue for me, but I'd really like it if they came with a convenient carrying case like my Bose headphones did.
 
So, Denon ah-d1100 and Phiaton ms300/ms400, I'll look into those.  I'm open to other suggestions as well!
 
I'm specifically looking for over-the-ear full-size headphones, not on-ear or earbuds.  I can't stand those.
 
I really thank you all for the help.  I don't consider myself an audiophile, but you might convert me soon.
 
OH YEAH!  Quick thing:  WHERE should I be buying my headphones, when I decide?

I normally try to use Amazon because I got a free Prime membership, or Newegg (but I don't know if they'd sell these?) for my techie needs.  Where do you guys go?

 

[Gwarmi]

They're not a bad headphone, that's the thing with these 'phones - they do no wrong apart from the common consensus that the mids
can be a little recessed. Bass is tight but not ample enough for some, certainly not for me when it comes to my electronica.
 
The question I often ask myself is what distinguishes them? What do they do really well?
 
That is lot more difficult to answer, they have no real strong sonic signature being a monitoring headphone. They're very vanilla.
Durability is excellent and I might mention that they will survive an occasional rain drizzle to boot.
 
Would I recommend them as the sole headphone for someone to get into Head-Fi who listens to at least 3 different genres of music?
 
Nope.

 

[Throdd]

Quote:

They're not a bad headphone, that's the thing with these 'phones - they do no wrong apart from the common consensus that the mids
can be a little recessed. Bass is tight but not ample enough for some, certainly not for me when it comes to my electronica.
 
The question I often ask myself is what distinguishes them? What do they do really well?
 
That is lot more difficult to answer, they have no real strong sonic signature being a monitoring headphone. They're very vanilla.
Durability is excellent and I might mention that they will survive an occasional rain drizzle to boot.
 
Would I recommend them as the sole headphone for someone to get into Head-Fi who listens to at least 3 different genres of music?
 
Nope.

Is this regarding the M50s or my QuietComforts?

In either case, what would you recommend, then?  Anything in that price range?
 
 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Is this regarding the M50s or my QuietComforts?

In either case, what would you recommend, then?  Anything in that price range?
 
 

Yep, for the AT-M50's. I've briefly heard the QC's from a friend but not enough to make any qualified statements.
 
I'm assuming that you're restricting yourself to closed ear models so that would extend to the Shure line with the 440 and 840.
 
The 940 if you could stretch it sounds like a great headphone, I've auditioned the 840 myself and if it extends on those
attributes - lean bass but tight, bright sounding with emphasis on smooth yet sharp treble then it could be an alternative
to the Senn 598 or my AKG K601 but in a closed model and without the need for an amplifier necessarily.
 
Although just about any model will benefit from amplication. Yes, even the M50's - the bass transforms on these with
a good desktop amp.
 

 

[cFran]

Asus to my knowledge does good with soundcards. they make the xonar essence i think, so you should be good and therefore would likely not need a D/A converter.
Lossless formats are just a selection when ripping from CD's. Media player doesn't really matter, its just the means by which your computer will interface whats going on to you. 320 kbps should be good enough. most people can't actually distinguish 320 from lossless. Many A/B tests have been done on it, so you won't be missing anything. And in terms of media player, lots of people tend to like 'foobar' but i don't know much about it, i'm a mac-guy, therefore use itunes.
 
I've only ever bought one set of high end phones, and did so at a local shop. (Yay for supporting local business!)
If you are going online, newegg sometimes has some mean prices from what i've seen. Check prices at a variety of websites I suppose, I'm not good at internetz so don't know