Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[GreenBow]

I think the idea of stacking the TT, M Scaler and TToby is great in terms of looks and design but it isn't something I'd ever considered in terms of sound quality. Cable management, RF/electronic noise and heat. I've always given plenty of space between pieces of hardware... probably a habit from using Naim... always provide space between each box and the M scaler (a computer) is placed as far away from the DAC as possible.

I used to have a Naim Supernait 2 integrated amp with a HiCap DR power supply. The SN3 is an improvement but from all accounts, not a massive one. It's the top of the line integrated that Naim sell and I can say without doubt, the TT2 directly into speakers is significantly different. I say different, whether it's better will depend on what you like. If you like transparency, natural presentation with large soundstage with bags of detail then it is a definite improvement. However, part of the draw of Naim is the, "Naim Sound". And rightly so, they are great amps.

To me, the mids on the Naim SN2 have a lot more bass, more warmth when compared to the TT2 driving speakers directly. After comparing the two, I felt they were too heavy and masked too much detail for me. A cliche I know but it was like a veil being lifted across the mds. Suddenly I could hear loads of detail in the mids that I hadn't heard before. After a week I couldn't go back and that's when the SN2, HiCap and ND5 XS2 went up for sale and in came the M Scaler.

So, given the improvement going from M Scaler - TT2 direct to then adding the Etude, I can say for sure I would never find a Naim integrated, SN2 or 3, to be better than the Etude when combined with a TT2 and M Scaler. But, if you like the Naim sound then you may not agree and find the Chord setup to analytical due to the lack of extra weight in the mids and all that extra detail. Horses for courses.

I think there are a few others over at Naim arranging a demo of the Etude so it will be interesting to hear their take on it as well.

Ultimately, whether it's Naim, Chord or Hegel etc it's about getting the right, closest mix of source, DAC, amp and speakers that works in your room and satisfies your taste in how music is presented and then complete the fine tuning with cables. We all have the same destination, our version of perfection, just that we all take a different route

That's a great post; totally informative.

Your comments about the Naim sound are fully interesting, because I have never heard Naim. However a while ago when I was pondering Ttoby vs Naim SN3, and ended up trying Ttoby. I am, and at the time was hesitant about Naim. Going by reviews alone and impressions, I figured the Chord amplifier sound would be more neutral across all respects. (Not just tonal balance.) At the time I was leaning towards an integrated amplifier, but went with trying Ttoby for sound. I think I worried that the naim SN3 might be a bit thick and mask some detail. Whereas reviews of Chord amps made me think they were detailed, neutral, tonally accurate, fleet-footed, and turned corners instantly. Ttoby reviews were stand-out excellent too, while Naim SN3 reviews are a brilliant but a little mixed.

I know we must judge ourselves, as synergy plays a part. However with the virus, going anywhere is a risk. Hence I read reviews, let them sink in, then read them again. Think of questions and read the reviews again and again. Anon.

Anyway, I have been reading the Naim thread that you linked. I am reading where and you have been describing TT2 driving speakers. When I read your first impressions I worried, because you said it sounded bright and thin. ... However I totally agree with you. That is exactly what I heard initially. Or until I adjusted to it.

My experience with Chord DACs though made me stick with it. Initially I had Meridian Explorer hooked on to my PC for sound. Then I tried Mojo. To me Mojo sounded thin, metallic, and bright. It sounded more detailed though, so I sort of figured keep going. After maybe a week I realised that it sounded so smooth compared to anything before it. Smooth not because it was a fat warm sound; smooth because it wasn't full of distortions. After ten days I was hearing how it was actually a natural warm sounding DAC too. It was all uphill from there.

When I got Hugo 2, it sounded bright with shards of new detail all over the place, on familiar music. I focused on 'how warm is it - and perceived natural warmth'. Long story short, I gave it time and adjusted, and fell hopelessly in love with it. ... When I got TT2 it took a few days to adjust. Then of course going TT2 driving speakers it too time to adjust. Once adjusted though, and it's something else. Smooth, natural warmth, solid sounding, and mountains of detail. Just took time to put it all in place and hear it as a whole.

It's good to hear you had the same thing when moving to TT2 driving speakers. As some report no adjustment. Maybe it's down to the amplifier previously used. Of course TT2 has headphone socket, and remembers headphone levels separately from rear ports. Win - win really.

(Am suspecting Hegel H120 will have a similar signature to Chord Ttoby. In integrated form though.)

 

[Toonartist]

That's a great post; totally informative.

Your comments about the Naim sound are fully interesting, because I have never heard Naim. However a while ago when I was pondering Ttoby vs Naim SN3, and ended up trying Ttoby. I am, and at the time was hesitant about Naim. Going by reviews alone and impressions, I figured the Chord amplifier sound would be more neutral across all respects. (Not just tonal balance.) At the time I was leaning towards and integrated amplifier, but went with trying Ttoby for sound. I think I worried that the naim SN3 might be a bit thick and mask some detail. Whereas reviews of Chord amps made me think they were detailed, neutral, tonally accurate, fleet-footed, and turned corners instantly. Ttoby reviews were stand-out excellent too, while Naim SN3 reviews are a brilliant but a little mixed.

I know we must judge ourselves, as synergy plays a part. However with the virus, going anywhere is a risk. Hence I read reviews, let them sink in, then read them again. Think of questions and read the reviews again and again. Anon.

Anyway, I have been reading the Naim thread that you linked. I am reading where and you have been describing TT2 driving speakers. When I read your first impressions I worried, because you said it sounded bright and thin. ... However I totally agree with you. That is exactly what I heard initially. Or until I adjusted to it.

My experience with Chord DACs though made me stick with it. Initially I had Meridian Explorer hooked on to my PC for sound. Then I tried Mojo. To me Mojo sounded thin, metallic, and bright. It sounded more detailed though, so I sort of figured keep going. After maybe a week I realised that it sounded so smooth compared to anything before it. Smooth not because it was a fat warm sound; smooth because it wasn't full of distortions. After ten days I was hearing how it was actually a natural warm sounding DAC too. It was all uphill from there.

When I got Hugo 2, it sounded bright with shards of new detail all over the place, on familiar music. I focused on 'how warm is it - and perceived natural warmth'. Long story short, I gave it time and adjusted, and fell hopelessly in love with it. ... When I got TT2 it took a few days to adjust. Then of course going TT2 driving speakers it too time to adjust. Once adjusted though, and it's something else. Smooth, natural warmth, solid sounding, and mountains of detail. Just took time to put it all in place and hear it as a whole.

It's good to hear you had the same thing when moving to TT2 driving speakers. As some report no adjustment. Maybe it's down to the amplifier previously used. Of course TT2 has headphone socket, and remembers headphone levels separately from rear ports. Win - win really.

(Note: Am suspecting Hegel H120 will have a similar signature to Chord Ttoby. In integrated form though.)

Don't get me wrong, the Naim SN3 is a terrific amp... top class. You just have demo it as like most companies, they have their stock sound. That thicker warmer mid range is very much appreciated by many when balance with the right speakers etc.

Chord is very different... aimed at transparency, natural dynamic music. Thats why I thought it sounded thin when I took out the SN2 and went from TT2 direct. If you have speakers that are slightly bright I have no doubt the Chord sound would end up fatiguing and the Naim sound would be more balanced.

As you mentioned, once you decide you like the detail, sound of a DAC then you can build a balanced system around it. I love bass, detail and sound stage but it has to be natural and as uncoloured as possible. That doesn't mean dull, it just means as the artist intended. The Chord amps (Ttoby & Etude etc) are extremely fast sounding and have fantastic energy and vividly real. That's what I like and for me it's far from dull... more goose bump real feeling.

As an update... the Tellurium Q Ultra Silvers are proving extremely good. Hard hitting bass, incredible detail and massive soundstage with great instrument separation. The Ultra Blacks are slightly warmer in the mids, a little less detail and soundstage but quite fluid and musical. I think anyone looking at buying either one should probably get a demo first to see which presentation they prefer. Both are excellent. Have to take my hat off to Audio Therapy for the demo... they've been very helpful!

 

[118900]

deleted

 

[griff500]

Let me know what you conclude. I’m currently listening to a DIY option made up of pre-built 1.3-metre Oyaide DB-510 cables with a smattering of clip-on ferrites, but not sure whether or not to explore further as it’s sounding pretty good as is.

I have finished comparing and I've decided to go for the Storm cables with Furutech connectors. The difference between the Storm and Stream cables was slight of course - the equipment I have is already producing a wonderful sound and the better it gets then the smaller the gains that are available. Diminishing returns and all that... But I also believe that the overall improvement is greater than the sum of the parts and that these cables really bring out the best in the M-Scaler/TT2 combo. The two cables use different construction - basically, copper vs silver plus the upgraded connectors, so the difference in cost can be justified by the materials used.

I felt that the Storm cable opened things up just that little bit more and perhaps there was a bit more weight and definition to the bass, plus there was something slightly more involving in the sound. I had music on in the background and kept realising that I had stopped what I was doing and was just listening to the music, which is a very good sign. When I am actively listening to music I find that I very quickly stop analysing the sound and instead just enjoy being in the moment.

Happy days!

I also upgraded the power supply in my Aries G2 a couple of days after changing the cable and that has contributed as well.

I am very happy with the improvement that WAVE cables make to the M-Scaler/TT2 combo and when swapping between standard cables and WAVE cables the difference is noticeable and you won't want to go back.

I think you could be perfectly happy with the Stream cables and they made a very worthwhile difference and are very well made, but there was just a little bit more with the Stream cables and I am happy to pay the extra for that and the materials used.

I've now got a system that I am absolutely thrilled with and I cannot see any improvements being required.

 

[GreenBow]

Don't get me wrong, the Naim SN3 is a terrific amp... top class. You just have demo it as like most companies, they have their stock sound. That thicker warmer mid range is very much appreciated by many when balance with the right speakers etc.

Chord is very different... aimed at transparency, natural dynamic music. Thats why I thought it sounded thin when I took out the SN2 and went from TT2 direct. If you have speakers that are slightly bright I have no doubt the Chord sound would end up fatiguing and the Naim sound would be more balanced.

As you mentioned, once you decide you like the detail, sound of a DAC then you can build a balanced system around it. I love bass, detail and sound stage but it has to be natural and as uncoloured as possible. That doesn't mean dull, it just means as the artist intended. The Chord amps (Ttoby & Etude etc) are extremely fast sounding and have fantastic energy and vividly real. That's what I like and for me it's far from dull... more goose bump real feeling.

As an update... the Tellurium Q Ultra Silvers are proving extremely good. Hard hitting bass, incredible detail and massive soundstage with great instrument separation. The Ultra Blacks are slightly warmer in the mids, a little less detail and soundstage but quite fluid and musical. I think anyone looking at buying either one should probably get a demo first to see which presentation they prefer. Both are excellent. Have to take my hat off to Audio Therapy for the demo... they've been very helpful!

Your requirements for sound signature are the same as mine. I guess it's partly been borne out of our love of Chord DACs.

With reference to the Hegel H120. Reviews are saying it's natural and neutral, with nothing added and nothing taken away. I guess they are talking about no colouration. Or as HiFi Choice said, 'No addition of a spray tan, or anything taken away. Just giving the speakers exactly what they want. Untouched music with all the drive it needs."

I love the aspect with the H120 that I can set one any channel input to max. Then use it like a power amp on input. It means I can use it for music and movies. Then switch to either my Qutest or even the Hegel DAC for YouTube and gaming. If it was strictly a music rig like your, I would be going the power amp route.

However in my reading up on reviews of integrated amplifiers, I noticed as said before many have a direct input. Like the new Rega Aethos as an RCA pair that connect to the power amp, bypassing the pre-amp. This is all fascinating stuff to me. Even the Naims have the same Home Theater setting that the Hegel has.


It seems strange though. Why do we want an amplifier when TT2 driving speakers is so beautiful? … For me with the Ttoby, I found it gave me more soundstage. Although that might have been increased partly by having a slightly bright RCA set the Chord Clearway. What it did though was give me to more separation of sounds. I am not entirely sure but I think it tightened the bass too. It was so tuneful in the bass; just gorgeous. Also while the TT2 is designed to drive loads like speakers. I could not help feeling more secure driving speakers with an amplifier. My speakers are six ohm so way below any regular headphones. They are Special Forty and Dynaudio design them with a flat impedance curve. That makes them easier to drive than speakers that drop impedance low in the bass notes. Even with all that though, I still feel more comfortable using an amplifier. I worry too much though.

Additionally, using an amplifier and interconnect takes cheap quality TT2 speaker driving adapters out of the chain.

Plus I need more than one DAC going, hence a need for an amplifier.

Lastly though, I noticed that the thread you linkd for Chord DACS on the Naim forum, is cool. The easy going chat is very relaxing to read. Folk just talking openly. None of that ego, 'mine is better than yours' attitude.

I’m sure there have already been several comparisons but as you just posted could you kindly give me an idea of the change from the hugo2 to the Hugo TT2 ?

Run a search on this thread, and the Hugo 2 thread for TT2 vs Hugo 2. I put that phrase in my posts about the differences, so my posts could be easily found.

 

[Amberlamps]

I admit that it was a few years ago that I last had a demo Chord power amp in my system and that was the SPM 1200mk2 but it was not to my taste. The only time I heard the Etude was at the North West Audio show in the Chord room and again that was not my cup of tea from what I heard in the demo room. I much prefer the Pass Labs XA30.8 that I bought instead of the 1200mk2.

Slanderous, Chord cups of tea not to your liking in a chord thread.

My dealer invited me down to one of his demo rooms to demo my mscaler and TT2 with his chord amps, the 1200mk2, but the dvla snatched my freedom, which is utter schiit.

 

[Triode User]

Slanderous, Chord cups of tea not to your liking in a chord thread.

My dealer invited me down to one of his demo rooms to demo my mscaler and TT2 with his chord amps, the 1200mk2, but the dvla snatched my freedom, which is utter schiit.

Actually I don't like tea full stop and have not drunk a cup of tea for the last 45 years!

I will go round and sort out the dvlc for you . The nasty swines.

 

[GreenBow]

I was going to make a suggestion for M-Scaler users. However with the talk about amplifiers and the TT2, I will put it here for now.

I understand that the WAVE cables and Opto-DX do the magic of stopping noise from HSM to DAC. There is though, the issues that noise can travel via the power supplies. Folk and Rob Watts affirmed that using DC power packs stops that.

There may be another way though with mains conditioners. I know that if it were that simple, everyone would be doing it. However the iFi Powerstation is a unique product. It uses active noise cancellation, (just like noise-cancelling headphones). The active noise cancellation only works in the KHz and low MHz region. Whereas some of the noise issue with the M-Scaler is I think around 1MHz to 2MHz. … The iFi PowerStation has passive noise cancellation above the low MHz range.

I can't openly recommend this device, because I have not tried it. Nor do I have an M-Scaler. The Powerstation does have a very good report from one review. I think it was the HiFi+ reviews said it kept the Naim Supernait 3 silent. Given the situation with Naim amplifiers, that is saying something to me.

Secondly if you have analoge amplifier on the PowerStation. Then a digital device (like a Chord DAC with a SMPS) on the strip too. You have to be aware of noise travelling through the mains strip. The Powerstation covers this with extra passive isolation of each socket on the mains strip. Plus they say you can put an iFi mains conditioner plug (thing) between analogue and digital devices. (That's the iFi AC iPurifier.) Apparently it works. Or we could just use two Powerstations, and put M-Scaler on one, and the DAC on the second.

Anyway along with the WAVE cables or Opto-DX, it might mean being able to do away with DC power-packs.

Given the general reviews of it, I think it should not be overlooked by anyone looking at mains products. (All reviews are available from the product page.) Anyway good luck if anyone tries it.

 

[Amberlamps]

Actually I don't like tea full stop and have not drunk a cup of tea for the last 45 years!

I will go round and sort out the dvlc for you . The nasty swines.

My man, I don’t like tea either, coffee for me, or milk, juice and freshly made real fruit smoothies in raw coconut water. Lately I’ve been prone to bottles of chilled coffee, starbucks etc, even though they are expensive for what they are.

Anything but tea.

 

[griff500]

All tea? There are a world of varieties...

 

[Amberlamps]

All tea? There are a world of varieties...

No doubt there would be ones that I would like given enough sugar, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to buy them, plus coffee in my opinion is light years ahead taste wise compared to tea, which tastes like dishcloth water.

I’ll stick to beverages that I like, which tea isn’t one of them.

I even like to drink the left over milk from my cocopops, which makes me a worldstar super soldier.

 

[griff500]

No doubt there would be ones that I would like given enough sugar, but I wouldn’t go out of my way to buy them, plus coffee in my opinion is light years ahead taste wise compared to tea, which tastes like dishcloth water.

I’ll stick to beverages that I like, which tea isn’t one of them.

I even like to drink the left over milk from my cocopops, which makes me a worldstar super soldier.

This is an important topic that does not seem to have been discussed previously for some unknown reason. It probably deserves it's own thread.

 

[Amberlamps]

This is an important topic that does not seem to have been discussed previously for some unknown reason. It probably deserves it's own thread.

A Thread about tea did you say!!!

Count me out.

 

[Light - Man]

My man, anything but tea.

Hey Amber, have a drink on me Bro!

I start off each morning with a fresh brew of green tea washed down with some brown sourdough toast and coconut butter.

Best to keep diabetes at bay by eating healthy stuff most of the time.....................

Back on topic, BTW, what is the weather like up their in wee Scotland?

 

[Amberlamps]

Hey Amber, have a drink on me Bro!

I start off each morning with a fresh brew of green tea washed down with some brown sourdough toast and coconut butter.

Best to keep diabetes at bay by eating healthy stuff most of the time.....................

Back on topic, BTW, what is the weather like up their in wee Scotland?

It’s freezing here, we are in the minus’s -1 to - 2oC, but it’s bearable with a comfy pair of headphones on.

I like your style, brown toast and coconut butter, I love dem coconuts.