[MachineGunz]

EDIT: I was able to solve this, Scroll down this page.




Hi,

I need your help and opinion.

It's a long post but please read it and help me.

I have no idea what to think on the sound quality of the TT2 anymore.

My headphones are the Audeze LCD-X.

My other components aside from the TT2 are the Schiit modi 3, Smsl sp200, And my AV receiver - The Marantz sr 6013.

Two weeks ago I was at a shop and was able to compare a lot of headphones and try different dacs and amps.

I bought the TT2 because of 3 reasons:

1. Because of how it sounded with the Abyss phi TC and the LCD-4.

2. Because of his really high value when comparing him to the Abyss stack + Dave + Mscaler.

When I listened to the Abyss phi TC at first I was listening through the Abyss stack, And then switched the Sagra dac with the Dave + Mscaler.
The amplifier was the Formula s with the powerman power supply.

They sounded amazing and I thought that a big part of it was due to the high end system.

I wanted to see how the TT2 could handle them because he was withing my budget.

To my surprise the TT2 also sounded incredible and the difference between him and the Dave + Mscaler was 20% at maximum.

So I knew that with the TT2 I am getting the best sound quality I can get - And that improving from that level is extremely costly and the gains aren't much.


A few months ago I had a chance to compare my LCD-X to the LCD-4 using the modi 3 + sp200 I have.

To my ears they sounded the same and I was extremely disappointed.

Everyone on the LCD-4 thread told me that I have to use high end equipment to get 100% from the LCD-4.

So at the shop I tried the LCD-4 on the TT2 and I was extremely impressed by the sound, That's how they were supposed to sound to my ears - They were clearly above the level of the LCD-X that I have.



3. Because he was clearly superior to a cheaper dac / amp - The Burson conductor 3.

At the shop I also compared the TT2 with the Burson Conductor 3 using the Abyss phi TC.

The TT2 was the clear winner in terms of sound quality.


So with all that I decided to buy a TT2 and enjoy it with my LCD-X and use it as a DAC with my AV receiver.

So I get a massive improvement with my headphones and with my speakers while I save up to upgrade my headphones.

When I got home and started to test the TT2 I first used it as a DAC with my AV Receiver (Marantz SR6013).

To my big surprise I couldn't tell a difference between the TT2 and the receiver's dac.

They sounded the same, If I did hear a difference it was a really subtle and small difference that I had to switch back and forth again and again in order to hear it.

I was really disappointed but I thought that maybe the amplification in my receiver isn't high end enough to show the differences between the dacs.

So I moved on to my headphones.

At first I thought I was hearing an improvement and was happy.

Yesterday I decided to reconnect the modi 3 and sp 200 and compare them to the TT2 and see the difference.

To my absolute shock there is no difference between them.

They sound the same, I cannot tell them apart.

I had a friend come over today and do a blind test for me, I literally could not know what I was listening to.

So for now it feels like I just bought a nice box with a nice glowing orb that gives me nothing in terms of sound.

My 400$ dac and amp sound equal to my 5000$+ dac / amp.

My av receiver sounds exactly the same with the TT2 and without it.

But that's completely opposite to what I heard when I was in the shop.

The TT2 gave me 80% - 85% of the DAVE, MSCALER, FORMULA S, POWERMAN.

When I switched from the Burson conductor 3 to the TT2 it was a night and day difference.

When I listened to the LCD-4 through the modi 3 and sp200 they sounded like my LCD-X. When I listened to them through the TT2 they were transformed and the sound quality was clearly a lot!!! higher.

So what am I missing here?

My TT2 and the TT2 at the shop are both connected via usb.

In both the shop and my home I am using the headphone out and not XLR.

I downloaded the drivers and they are completely fine.

In terms of filters I was using XFD 0 and FIL 1.

I have no idea what to think anymore, I am completely lost.

I don't expect the LCD-X to give me the same sound difference as the LCD-4 and the Abyss phi TC - But to sound EXACTLY the same is shocking.

 

[ZappaMan]

Hi,

I need your help and opinion.

It's a long post but please read it and help me.

I have no idea what to think on the sound quality of the TT2 anymore.

My headphones are the Audeze LCD-X.

My other components aside from the TT2 are the Schiit modi 3, Smsl sp200, And my AV receiver - The Marantz sr 6013.

Two weeks ago I was at a shop and was able to compare a lot of headphones and try different dacs and amps.

I bought the TT2 because of 3 reasons:

1. Because of how it sounded with the Abyss phi TC and the LCD-4.

2. Because of his really high value when comparing him to the Abyss stack + Dave + Mscaler.

When I listened to the Abyss phi TC at first I was listening through the Abyss stack, And then switched the Sagra dac with the Dave + Mscaler.
The amplifier was the Formula s with the powerman power supply.

They sounded amazing and I thought that a big part of it was due to the high end system.

I wanted to see how the TT2 could handle them because he was withing my budget.

To my surprise the TT2 also sounded incredible and the difference between him and the Dave + Mscaler was 20% at maximum.

So I knew that with the TT2 I am getting the best sound quality I can get - And that improving from that level is extremely costly and the gains aren't much.


A few months ago I had a chance to compare my LCD-X to the LCD-4 using the modi 3 + sp200 I have.

To my ears they sounded the same and I was extremely disappointed.

Everyone on the LCD-4 thread told me that I have to use high end equipment to get 100% from the LCD-4.

So at the shop I tried the LCD-4 on the TT2 and I was extremely impressed by the sound, That's how they were supposed to sound to my ears - They were clearly above the level of the LCD-X that I have.



3. Because he was clearly superior to a cheaper dac / amp - The Burson conductor 3.

At the shop I also compared the TT2 with the Burson Conductor 3 using the Abyss phi TC.

The TT2 was the clear winner in terms of sound quality.


So with all that I decided to buy a TT2 and enjoy it with my LCD-X and use it as a DAC with my AV receiver.

So I get a massive improvement with my headphones and with my speakers while I save up to upgrade my headphones.

When I got home and started to test the TT2 I first used it as a DAC with my AV Receiver (Marantz SR6013).

To my big surprise I couldn't tell a difference between the TT2 and the receiver's dac.

They sounded the same, If I did hear a difference it was a really subtle and small difference that I had to switch back and forth again and again in order to hear it.

I was really disappointed but I thought that maybe the amplification in my receiver isn't high end enough to show the differences between the dacs.

So I moved on to my headphones.

At first I thought I was hearing an improvement and was happy.

Yesterday I decided to reconnect the modi 3 and sp 200 and compare them to the TT2 and see the difference.

To my absolute shock there is no difference between them.

They sound the same, I cannot tell them apart.

I had a friend come over today and do a blind test for me, I literally could not know what I was listening to.

So for now it feels like I just bought a nice box with a nice glowing orb that gives me nothing in terms of sound.

My 400$ dac and amp sound equal to my 5000$+ dac / amp.

My av receiver sounds exactly the same with the TT2 and without it.

But that's completely opposite to what I heard when I was in the shop.

The TT2 gave me 80% - 85% of the DAVE, MSCALER, FORMULA S, POWERMAN.

When I switched from the Burson conductor 3 to the TT2 it was a night and day difference.

When I listened to the LCD-4 through the modi 3 and sp200 they sounded like my LCD-X. When I listened to them through the TT2 they were transformed and the sound quality was clearly a lot!!! higher.

So what am I missing here?

My TT2 and the TT2 at the shop are both connected via usb.

In both the shop and my home I am using the headphone out and not XLR.

I downloaded the drivers and they are completely fine.

In terms of filters I was using XFD 0 and FIL 1.

I have no idea what to think anymore, I am completely lost.

I don't expect the LCD-X to give me the same sound difference as the LCD-4 and the Abyss phi TC - But to sound EXACTLY the same is shocking.

Maybe you’re hearing is affected from a recent cold?
What other conditions could be different? Is it the same music you were listening to in the shop?
What if you plug your headphones into your phone, does that sound the same?

 

[Whazzzup]

..

 

[ZappaMan]

..

Maybe the server was different

 

[musickid]

were you using the same quality of recordings throughout?? that's vital.

also don't mistake the level of loudness if listening at the same higher volume through all devices. so same loudness is not same quality.

 

[musickid]

usb class 2 certified cable shipped in from Germany. 30 euros.

 

[Whazzzup]

Maybe the server was different

I thought better of not commenting on the dudes revelation

 

[Jon L]

So with all that I decided to buy a TT2 and enjoy it with my LCD-X and use it as a DAC with my AV receiver.

Did I miss something? You loved LCD-4 and Abyss on the TT2 at the shop, but you did not try your LCD-X at the shop. Yet you still bought the TT2 to use with your LCD-X, not LCD-4 or Abyss.
If true, the next thing to do is take your LCD-X to the same shop and compare LCD-X to LCD-4.
If LCD-4 again sound great, much better than LCD-X, then the answer is to sell LCD-X and buy LCD-4 (or Abyss).

If LCD-X sounds as great as LCD-4 at the shop, then something at your home is acting as a limiting factor. It could be the LCD-X in the headphone chain, or your receiver's amp section or speakers acting as limiting factor in speaker chain. So then you upgrade the limiting factor. The difficulty is that many, many other things could also be limiting factors, e.g. digital source/server, playback software/settings, analogue/digital/power cabling, room acoustics (for speakers), etc, etc. This is why audiophiles suffer...

 

[Triode User]

If true, the next thing to do is take your LCD-X to the same shop and compare LCD-X to LCD-4.

The only problem with that plan is that in the UK and possibly elsewhere all hifi shops are now closed, initially for 3 weeks but probably much longer.

 

[MachineGunz]

Maybe you’re hearing is affected from a recent cold?
What other conditions could be different? Is it the same music you were listening to in the shop?
What if you plug your headphones into your phone, does that sound the same?

That's an interesting thought.

I will test it and write back.

Maybe the server was different

I don't know if you are joking on not, But write whatever you think.

were you using the same quality of recordings throughout?? that's vital.

also don't mistake the level of loudness if listening at the same higher volume through all devices. so same loudness is not same quality.

I thought better of not commenting on the dudes revelation

Is this about the Dave vs TT2?

Write what you think, I am not going to get hurt or anything. In fact the more opinions the better.

Did I miss something? You loved LCD-4 and Abyss on the TT2 at the shop, but you did not try your LCD-X at the shop. Yet you still bought the TT2 to use with your LCD-X, not LCD-4 or Abyss.
If true, the next thing to do is take your LCD-X to the same shop and compare LCD-X to LCD-4.
If LCD-4 again sound great, much better than LCD-X, then the answer is to sell LCD-X and buy LCD-4 (or Abyss).

If LCD-X sounds as great as LCD-4 at the shop, then something at your home is acting as a limiting factor. It could be the LCD-X in the headphone chain, or your receiver's amp section or speakers acting as limiting factor in speaker chain. So then you upgrade the limiting factor. The difficulty is that many, many other things could also be limiting factors, e.g. digital source/server, playback software/settings, analogue/digital/power cabling, room acoustics (for speakers), etc, etc. This is why audiophiles suffer...

I am going to buy the PHI TC as soon as I can, They were incredible.

I bought it to use with a future phi TC that I will buy, I got the TT2 for a good price and I figured I can use it with my LCD-X and as a really high end DAC with my speakers and enjoy it.


I am not disliking the TT2 with the LCD-X, The sound is good, detailed, bass is deep and detailed, Imaging is very good as well.

My disappointment is that when I decided to try my old system again and compare it with the TT2 - I could not tell them apart.

And with my AV receiver I can maybe hear a really small detail improvement with the TT2.

So the LCD-X might just be insanely efficient that I truly can't hear a difference but I really expected the TT2 to show it's superiority.

Now again - When I heard a pair of LCD-4 on my system and was able to compare them head to head with my LCD-X - I couldn't hear a difference in terms of sound quality, They both sounded the same.

So I was disappointed because that's the exact opposite of what people are saying the LCD-4 are, They should sound much better than the LCD-X.

People in the LCD-4 thread told me that I have to use high end equipment in order for the LCD-4 to sound good.

So in the shop I tried their pair of LCD-4 to see if actually using high end equipment can change the way they sound to me.

And while I didn't have my LCD-X to compare - The LCD-4 were transformed - They sounded incredible - Much better than my LCD-X.

So the next thing I tested was to see if the TT2 is just expensive of if it's actually worth it's price tag, What good is the TT2 if I can get the same performance for much less? - So I tested it against the Burson conductor 3 (1750$).

I was using the Abyss phi TC - The TT2 was the clear winner, I didn't have to switch back and forth and concentrate to hear the difference. It was night and day.

So the TT2 proved itself:

1. It had really good value because it came close to the performance of the Chord Dave while costing almost half.

2. It showed me that truly expensive and high end equipment really does improve the sound quality and make a difference (LCD4 on my system vs the TT2 ) And it also sounded better than the Burson conductor 3.

3. It was clearly superior to cheaper offerings so it's not just an expensive device - It's worth the money (Burson conductor 3 vs TT2)

And that's why I bought it.

I just expected it to have a much bigger impact with my equipment at home even if it's not the Abyss phi TC.

 

[andrewd01]

I think it would be useful if you could describe the full chain in the shop and at home. Sources, cables, power supplies and isolation/vibration control all matter.

 

[andrewd01]

Another question: Do you prefer the headphone out from the TT2 vs the AV receiver? IMO the main reason to buy a TT2 for headphone use is to take advantage of the direct headphone output from the DAC.

 

[Arniesb]

That's an interesting thought.

I will test it and write back.



I don't know if you are joking on not, But write whatever you think.




Is this about the Dave vs TT2?

Write what you think, I am not going to get hurt or anything. In fact the more opinions the better.



I am going to buy the PHI TC as soon as I can, They were incredible.

I bought it to use with a future phi TC that I will buy, I got the TT2 for a good price and I figured I can use it with my LCD-X and as a really high end DAC with my speakers and enjoy it.


I am not disliking the TT2 with the LCD-X, The sound is good, detailed, bass is deep and detailed, Imaging is very good as well.

My disappointment is that when I decided to try my old system again and compare it with the TT2 - I could not tell them apart.

And with my AV receiver I can maybe hear a really small detail improvement with the TT2.

So the LCD-X might just be insanely efficient that I truly can't hear a difference but I really expected the TT2 to show it's superiority.

Now again - When I heard a pair of LCD-4 on my system and was able to compare them head to head with my LCD-X - I couldn't hear a difference in terms of sound quality, They both sounded the same.

So I was disappointed because that's the exact opposite of what people are saying the LCD-4 are, They should sound much better than the LCD-X.

People in the LCD-4 thread told me that I have to use high end equipment in order for the LCD-4 to sound good.

So in the shop I tried their pair of LCD-4 to see if actually using high end equipment can change the way they sound to me.

And while I didn't have my LCD-X to compare - The LCD-4 were transformed - They sounded incredible - Much better than my LCD-X.

So the next thing I tested was to see if the TT2 is just expensive of if it's actually worth it's price tag, What good is the TT2 if I can get the same performance for much less? - So I tested it against the Burson conductor 3 (1750$).

I was using the Abyss phi TC - The TT2 was the clear winner, I didn't have to switch back and forth and concentrate to hear the difference. It was night and day.

So the TT2 proved itself:

1. It had really good value because it came close to the performance of the Chord Dave while costing almost half.

2. It showed me that truly expensive and high end equipment really does improve the sound quality and make a difference (LCD4 on my system vs the TT2 ) And it also sounded better than the Burson conductor 3.

3. It was clearly superior to cheaper offerings so it's not just an expensive device - It's worth the money (Burson conductor 3 vs TT2)

And that's why I bought it.

I just expected it to have a much bigger impact with my equipment at home even if it's not the Abyss phi TC.

You said you were using usb? Then almost all dacs is very dependant on the source. Quality Laptops sound better than Towers and Reclockers sound miles better than Laptop usb port.
It very well could have been battery runing laptop and thats why it soundend better.

 

[MachineGunz]

Alright so I have a breakthrough!

In short - Tidal via Exclusive mode improved the sound quality on all of my devices and now I can actually hear that the TT2 sounds better than the modi 3 + sp 200 and my Av receiver. It's not a massive difference but it's there and I can hear it on multiple songs.

For some reason Qobuz through Wasapi didn't provide this improvement, And foobar with the Wasapi plugin also didn't sound better than spotify.

When I compare Tidal Exclusive mode to Spotify I can hear a small but very audible and clear improvement in sound quality.





For the fast few hours I have been comparing the TT2, modi 3 + smsl sp200 and my Av receiver (Marantz sr 6013).

I noticed that I forgot to cancel my TIDAL after the trial ended so I was charged for Tidal Hifi so I decided I should do the comparison using Tidal.

In the settings of tidal I noticed that I can choose to use the devices in Exclusive mode.

I did try Qobuz with Wasapi Exclusive mode but didn't notice a difference in sound quality versus Spotify.

I also tried Foobar 2000 with the Wasapi plugin and again didn't hear a difference versus Spotify.

Now I can 100% say there is a clear audible difference in quality between Tidal through Exclusive mode compared to Spotify.

I was registered to Tidal a few years ago but ended up switching to Spotify because of better stability and the fact I couldn't hear a difference in sound quality.

I compared them and did not hear a single advantage on Tidal - But one thing I did not know about and no one even talked about is the exclusive mode.

I can now say with 100% confidence - If you are not using exclusive mode on tidal then Tidal and Spotify will sound identical.

Without exclusive mode- There is no audible difference.

With exclusive mode - There is a clear audible difference thorugh the modi 3, my av receiver and the TT2.

And with this difference I started to finally hear a difference with the TT2 compared to the Modi 3, smsl sp 200 and my receiver.

Suddenly the TT2 is more effortless, It keeps all of the details even at lower volumes.

One song that demonstrates it is Limit to your love - James blake, The bass on the Modi 3 and sp200 sounds forced and more boomy, The TT2 is effortless and you can just increase the volume and not lose a single amount of detail.

Now the difference between them isn't massive - In certain songs I could not really tell a difference between them, But overall there is now a difference.

The TT2 shows is less sibilant, less harsh and there is a better balance of showing all of the details in the same volume.

I keep testing it but for now it seems that my problem is fixed.


Another edit: Yes I can now clearly hear that the TT2 is superior. Not a massive difference but definitely a noticeable one.

Another edit: YESS!!! That's what I was expecting from the TT2. By the second it's more and more impressive.

Another edit: There is also a difference with my speakers now. The TT2 is superior to the AV Receiver (as it should be).

 

[andrewd01]

^ Another good case study to confirm that it is a good idea to avoid standard computers like the plague. Endless faffing with drivers, wasapi plugins, exclusive mode etc etc.