[kelly200269]

I would imaging that the TT2 has a lot more than quite more detail retrieval than the TT. I think the TT2 has a more advanced output stage also. Not sure, but I think so. Better all round. I can't even imagine how the TT2 sounds anything less than natural at music reproduction.

As above. It’s called system ‘synergy’. Having used them both in the same system, I can fully understand why someone would prefer TT1 to TT2.

 

[465176]

I notice that you have a pair of Focal Aria’s, I used to own Sopra 1’s. Did you try running the Focal’s directly off the TT2, since they are fairly easy to drive? A few of us here are using our TT2 ‘s this way, (including Rob Watts) and are more than happy.

I never got around to trying that. But no matter how good it may well have been, I have a reasonably large vinyl collection so would always need some kind of pre and phono stage.

 

[465176]

As above. It’s called system ‘synergy’.

Absolutely! Plus the individual eccentricities of one’s own hearing (something most people cannot possibly measure!), plus the interaction of the speakers in one’s room. For my current tastes and system, TT is subjectively the better all rounder, though if I owned nothing but well mastered recordings perhaps I'd likely prefer TT2 overall. But TT is more forgiving, particularly in a smaller listening room when using speakers (key point). It’s a subjective personal preference, rather than saying one is better than the other, period. Of course even TT is still streets ahead of the majority of ‘standard chipset tech’ DACs, and also measures superbly. It just fits into my system much better, though having said that I miss the extra inputs of TT2, and the fact it remembers last volume position, and mutes the output when headphones are inserted etc.

 

[GreenBow]

One cannot ignore synergy in a system.
I have a very revealing, somewhat clinical-sounding Linn Aktiv system. My original TT1 sounded sublime, and it’s slight ‘softness’ (compared to TT2) complimented the slightly ‘hard’/unforgiving nature of my system.
Following an upgrade to TT2, I missed (and think I still do miss) the ‘roundness’ of the TT1.
Yes, the TT2 is more revealing, more exhilarating. But it’s also not as ‘easy’ to listen to as TT1 in my system.
Ergonomically, there is no comparison. The DAC mode of TT2 is a godsend for me, as I play it directly into my preamp, and setting the level on TT1 before listening always drove me mad.
However, TT1 is still very relevant today, and I can fully understand why some would prefer the sound signature of TT1 over TT2, notwithstanding how awesome TT2 is.

I was actually thinking, that this topic might be down to other system kit. (Bit like I am saying hindsight is a wonderful science.) However I said something similar in the Hugo 2 threads, when the Hugo 2 was suddenly getting what appeared to be a trolling. It was being criticised for being bright and thin. Neither is true. I said it was either a case of trolling Hugo 2 and Chord, or people were in denial about their partnering kit.

With the TT2 however this is a different story. The TT2 will not have a thinner sound than the TT. Meaning balancing the sound with the rest of the kit is not on point. Like in your case, you have an unforgiving system and using that as an example. The TT2 is not a hard sounding DAC, so you're not adding more hardness. Also I would personally say the Hugo 2 was a touch softer than the TT2. (When I say a touch, I mean only fractionally.) That I put down to better power supply on the TT2. Yet the Hugo 2 thread is sometimes inundated with comments about harshness.

However I can't see how adding more detail would make a system sound off. There are various pieces of kit that get a particular term to describe them. Ones that reveal the nature of the other electronics. It means whichever way I look on this, it's down to partnering kit. What that means is when people say they prefer TT1, it means they prefer TT1 on their kit.

Just taking that on its own though, with your example of TT1 sounding with a light softness vs TT2. Somewhere where the TT2 is less smooth so to speak than the Hugo 2, is on transients. It comes in sooner, and you literally hear vocals come in faster and clearer than on Hugo 2. (Like when you get a 'T' sound at the start of a vocal line.) Coming from Hugo 2 to TT2, that can be a shock. Hearing stuff I never heard before. Like, 'since when did that vocal, come in like that'. However it would probably have to be a brighter system that can't cope with that. Although I ran some slightly brighter speaker cable before now and I knew TT2 was b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l. Meaning I am still lost over how a TT1 can sound better than a TT2.

I have never heard a TT1, but knowing Monsieur Watts, I can't see how the signature changed so radically. TT1 was built on Hugo 1, which was actually said to be the brighter DAC. Meaning it's possible the TT1 sounded a fraction brighter than TT2. (Although that's postulation, as again that might have been partnering kit.)

To me though, neither Hugo 2 or TT2 are bright. TT2 is just more detailed, more dynamic, and more atmospheric. The only analogy I can think of is, my Meridian Explorer in place of TT1. While it is not comparable with Chord DACs, is sounded smooth, warm, and full. (Compared to Chord it sounds over the top in those qualities.) Why would someone want that?

I imagine the TT1 to have a similar tonality to the other Chord DACs myself. Meaning not over the top in any quality, unlike the Meridian Explorer. Just not as much happening with the sounds on the TT1 compared with the TT2. That makes me thing again. It's like having a system where you spent the same on each piece. DAC, amp, speakers. Then putting in some new speakers costing three times as much. While the crucial point is the speakers are spot on neutral. Then that person saying they preferred their old speakers. What I mean is, if someone's system can't pair with neutral, what have they done? To me, neutral is the number one priority when buying kit; because then equipment pairs.

However this just seems to me like people saying stuff to get a reaction. Slagging off the TT2, to see who jumps, and has to write another chuffing essay. Since if someone doesn't, then someone else vaguely interested in a TT2 is cruelly put off. … To balance that out, I am not bothered about defending the value of my TT2. That's not why I rebuff these ideas of TT2 sounding bad. The reason behind that is, I will keep my TT2 forever. Or until it gets traded in for a next gen Hugo table-top. It's that good. It will probably get kept and moved about though, if I ever got a TT3 or 4, 5 etc.

Honestly I think if you can't hear the roundness of the TT2, you're not listening right. It is so very round and full bodied, while being excellently detailed. All it sounds like in comparison to lesser DACs to me, is more like music.

 

[Rob Watts]

My question to rob, as you have been using 12v portable power solution for tt2 and HMS, can you please tell about how low the supply can drop below 12v before tt2 and HMS stop working ? I am asking because 12v is already 3v less than 15v .

Each device has different thresholds. In the case of TT2, the FPGA ADC measures the incoming voltage and if it's too low will trigger a shutdown - so that pulling the PSU will mean no switch off thumps. If memory serves, I set that to 11v or so. If the supply exceeds 15.5v, then the power high error will trigger, ensuring that the super caps won't get over-voltage.

For the M scaler the upper range is the same at 15.5v, and the lower value is more like 5v.

Don't think about using audiophile linear PSUs, they will degrade the SQ and your warranty will be invalidated.

 

[kelly200269]

Don't think about using audiophile linear PSUs, they will degrade the SQ and your warranty will be invalidated

Thanks Rob. I just wish more people would listen to you on this point.
It would make this thread half the size it is currently!

 

[rkt31]

Each device has different thresholds. In the case of TT2, the FPGA ADC measures the incoming voltage and if it's too low will trigger a shutdown - so that pulling the PSU will mean no switch off thumps. If memory serves, I set that to 11v or so. If the supply exceeds 15.5v, then the power high error will trigger, ensuring that the super caps won't get over-voltage.

For the M scaler the upper range is the same at 15.5v, and the lower value is more like 5v.

Don't think about using audiophile linear PSUs, they will degrade the SQ and your warranty will be invalidated.

Thanks a lot for quick response. I have no plans for using other power supplies.

 

[GreenBow]

Seen some new speakers that might be on someone's price range with the TT2. Wilson Benesch Precision P1.0.

https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/wilson-benesch-precision-p10

 

[Christer]

I would imaging that the TT2 has a lot more than quite more detail retrieval than the TT. I think the TT2 has a more advanced output stage also. Not sure, but I think so. Better all round. I can't even imagine how the TT2 sounds anything less than natural at music reproduction.

Hmm, imho like ALL Chord Dacs the TT2 also needs an MScaler to sound convincing to me.

Yes of course TT2 has got clearly more power than ANY other Chord DAC.

But inspite of the 90k+ taps over 48k with TT, H2 and Qutest, the TT2 alone still sounds a bit "digital" to me.

Without an MScaler I honestly wasn't THAT impressed by it comparing it in depth both with H2/Qutest and DAVE.
I'd still say that for me to be happy with the dac on its own, the only Chord dac that would come into question for me, would be DAVE.
But even DAVE without an M Scaler sometimes reveals audible limitations to me with densely scored large scale acoustic music.
Strings and percussion as always the most easily detectible areas when things go astray.
Hardening of tone and lacking correct tone colours, and instrumental timbre not quite right are areas where even DAVE can fall a bit short at times.

But even with my humble Qutest/HMS combo I can listen to rbcds for hours and hours on a daily basis, without fatique something not even DAVE on its own is capable of delivering for me.
And certainly not TT2 or any of the others that can use an HMS on their own.

To my ears DAVE can sound absolutely superb and very transparent and realistic with 24/96 pcm and higher rates but not as convincing with DSD or 16/44.1
But adding an MScaler to DAVE basically equals PCM SOTA.
To me and the way I hear things, there is no doubt whatsoever that the MOST important ingredient in the current Chord menu,is the MScaler.
It very notably improves both H2/Qutest, TT2 AND DAVE imho.

Cheers CC

 

[GreenBow]

Hmm, imho like ALL Chord Dacs the TT2 also needs an MScaler to sound convincing to me.

Yes of course TT2 has got clearly more power than ANY other Chord DAC.

But inspite of the 90k+ taps over 48k with TT, H2 and Qutest, the TT2 alone still sounds a bit "digital" to me.

Without an MScaler I honestly wasn't THAT impressed by it comparing it in depth both with H2/Qutest and DAVE.
I'd still say that for me to be happy with the dac on its own, the only Chord dac that would come into question for me, would be DAVE.
But even DAVE without an M Scaler sometimes reveals audible limitations to me with densely scored large scale acoustic music.
Strings and percussion as always the most easily detectible areas when things go astray.
Hardening of tone and lacking correct tone colours, and instrumental timbre not quite right are areas where even DAVE can fall a bit short at times.

But even with my humble Qutest/HMS combo I can listen to rbcds for hours and hours on a daily basis, without fatique something not even DAVE on its own is capable of delivering for me.
And certainly not TT2 or any of the others that can use an HMS on their own.

To my ears DAVE can sound absolutely superb and very transparent and realistic with 24/96 pcm and higher rates but not as convincing with DSD or 16/44.1
But adding an MScaler to DAVE basically equals PCM SOTA.
To me and the way I hear things, there is no doubt whatsoever that the MOST important ingredient in the current Chord menu,is the MScaler.
It very notably improves both H2/Qutest, TT2 AND DAVE imho.

Cheers CC

The TT1 didn't have 48K taps. It had 26K, same as Hugo 1.

TT2 is more than 'a bit better than' TT1

 

[kelly200269]

TT2 is more than a bit better than TT1

How can you claim to know that TT2 is 'more than a bit better than TT1', when you admit in a previous post to never hearing TT1?

I have never heard a TT1

 

[jarnopp]

Hmm, imho like ALL Chord Dacs the TT2 also needs an MScaler to sound convincing to me.

Yes of course TT2 has got clearly more power than ANY other Chord DAC.

But inspite of the 90k+ taps over 48k with TT, H2 and Qutest, the TT2 alone still sounds a bit "digital" to me.

Without an MScaler I honestly wasn't THAT impressed by it comparing it in depth both with H2/Qutest and DAVE.
I'd still say that for me to be happy with the dac on its own, the only Chord dac that would come into question for me, would be DAVE.
But even DAVE without an M Scaler sometimes reveals audible limitations to me with densely scored large scale acoustic music.
Strings and percussion as always the most easily detectible areas when things go astray.
Hardening of tone and lacking correct tone colours, and instrumental timbre not quite right are areas where even DAVE can fall a bit short at times.

But even with my humble Qutest/HMS combo I can listen to rbcds for hours and hours on a daily basis, without fatique something not even DAVE on its own is capable of delivering for me.
And certainly not TT2 or any of the others that can use an HMS on their own.

To my ears DAVE can sound absolutely superb and very transparent and realistic with 24/96 pcm and higher rates but not as convincing with DSD or 16/44.1
But adding an MScaler to DAVE basically equals PCM SOTA.
To me and the way I hear things, there is no doubt whatsoever that the MOST important ingredient in the current Chord menu,is the MScaler.
It very notably improves both H2/Qutest, TT2 AND DAVE imho.

Cheers CC

Christer,


A question about your Qutest/HMS combo: you’ve done a lot of listening both to recorded music and live concerts, so how does your current setup compare to the best music reproduction you’ve heard/owned? Are we at the pinnacle now (I assume or you’d be using something else), or do you go back to LPs at times? Is the current digital reproduction clearly the best so far, or do you still feel there are trade offs with other formats?

Thanks,
John

 

[465176]

How can you claim to know that TT2 is 'more than a bit better than TT1', when you admit in a previous post to never hearing TT1?

That thought occurred to me also! However since he again inferred people that don’t consider the TT2 the second coming as trolling again (something that really p*sses me off as it cuts off debate), I give his posts (essays?) little credence. And he’s now on the ignore list... Subjective preference is just that, some seem not to be able to handle that or those that might prefer an older DAC.

Just for the record for anybody else looking at these posts: I never said anywhere TT1 was better. I said it’s balance of sonic attributes was subjectively more pleasing to me at this point in time (with my current system and tastes etc). No DAC is sonically perfect, therefore it’s always going to be a case of choosing your own subjective poison and how well it balances out with the pros and cons of one’s system and listening environment and musical choices. I have chosen and am largely happy with that choice.

 

[kelly200269]

That thought occurred to me also! However since he again inferred people that don’t consider the TT2 the second coming as trolling again (something that really p*sses me off as it cuts off debate), I give his posts (essays?) little credence. And he’s now on the ignore list... Subjective preference is just that, some seem not to be able to handle that or those that might prefer an older DAC.

Just for the record for anybody else looking at these posts: I never said anywhere TT1 was better. I said I preferred it’s balance of sonic attributes. No DAC is sonically perfect, therefore it’s always going to be a case of choosing your own subjective poison and how well it balances out with the pros and cons of one’s system and listening environment and musical choices. I have chosen and am largely happy with that choice.

Surely, anyone posting definitive subjective opinions of any kit, must have heard them before posting. Otherwise, it's just conjecture and speculation.
That isn't unique to this thread, but must be pointed-out, for the sake of transparency and accuracy.

And as I have said before (which may have been inadvertently deleted by a mod?), I can fully-understand why you might prefer the TT1 to TT2. They are tonally different, and in some systems I can see why the TT1 might fit-in better, in preference to TT2.

 

[465176]

Surely, anyone posting definitive subjective opinions of any kit, must have heard them before posting. Otherwise, it's just conjecture and speculation.
That isn't unique to this thread, but must be pointed-out, for the sake of transparency and accuracy.

Spot on!