Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

Oct 2, 2019 at 4:36 PM Post #7,171 of 19,821
Yeah that makes some sense, in relation to an idea I had. (It might just be straight right, but only when played balanced louder than SE goes.)

I'll try explain, but am whacked tonight so might mess up... Like I have to try get it straight in my head before I can explain it. Also I might be totally wrong so take it with a pinch of salt, but this is what I read. I read about this in articles about amplifiers and power output.


When we see the ohmage of speakers, it's only a nominal value apparently to set a numerical standard. I have read that the impedance of speakers changes as the frequency of the sound changes. Anyway, as frequency of sound drops, the impedance of the speaker drops. This means that the current moves faster, meaning the amplifier has to make more power output. It has to provide more current (at given voltage) to provide same volume. Meaning as the sound goes lower, the amplifier (or TT2) has to put through more power.

That's why I said what I did a few times in the last pages, which is this. Maybe folk who think the TT2 lacks bass power are listening to it on louder volume levels than I am. (When driving speakers directly of course.) That they are reaching the point where the TT2 can't match the power required to maintain low frequency volume. (Whereas I don't even need to push the TT2 on single ended, because I listen quietly.) …. I think this is why sometimes we read things in reviews related to this. Like when they say some amplifiers cannot control speakers at low frequencies. Either the amplifiers can't provide enough power at low volumes, or can't provide it fast enough.

The theory is the same for SE vs balanced. On balanced there is more available power to them. In SE they may have pushed the TT2 into a region where it struggled for bass volume reproduction. Whereas in balanced out, they never really reached that threshold, because overall they had more volume at their disposal.


I mean I really honestly do need to go over 0 (zero) on the TT2 volume numbers. That probably leaves me well within the region where bass still gets enough power. ……….Moving on, even having said this, I feel more comfortable using the TT2 as a DAC only, with an amplifier. Like if I ever do need more volume, I would prefer to be running an amplifier. Partly for the reasons above. Partly because some amplifiers can sound harsh when pushed very hard. We read about amplifiers hardening up, or the separation going wrong, when amplifiers are pushed hard. It's also said that you should not push amplifiers too hard anyway. That's because even if they are not quite at full volume, they start to distort. That type of distortion destroys speakers.
I use my TT2 as a headphone DAC/amp. This is the original purpose by design. Driving speakers out of BA from TT2 is sort of an extra function. I am playing with the thought of buying efficient speakers one day and drive them from my TT2, but my life circumstances are not quite ready for that yet.
Anyway, TT2 is not for driving speakers directly by default. TT2 can do that because it is an absolutely outstanding headphone DAC/amp.
If one day I decide to push the TT2 to its limits and drive speakers out of the BA at the back, I will really make sure those speakers are efficient and will sound great without making the TT2 too hot. This might mean, perhaps I can't buy the best of the best speakers just a 'good enough' pair, but those speakers will be driven from a TOTL headphone amplifier... Which is pretty cool (and cost efficient).
 
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Oct 2, 2019 at 4:58 PM Post #7,172 of 19,821
Partly because some amplifiers can sound harsh when pushed very hard. We read about amplifiers hardening up, or the separation going wrong, when amplifiers are pushed hard. It's also said that you should not push amplifiers too hard anyway. That's because even if they are not quite at full volume, they start to distort. That type of distortion destroys speakers.

What you describe is called clipping. And yes, that can destroy speakers (particularly tweeters) at a drop of a hat if you put your mind to it.

Rob has posted several times in this thread about safe levels for the TT2 in high and low gain before clipping. Search for clipping in the TT2 thread.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 5:07 PM Post #7,173 of 19,821
What you describe is called clipping. And yes, that can destroy speakers (particularly tweeters) at a drop of a hat if you put your mind to it.

Rob has posted several times in this thread about safe levels for the TT2 in high and low gain before clipping. Search for clipping in the TT2 thread.

Yup, I blew up one mission 770 speaker because of it.

Well, that was after I blew up the glass fuse. I couldn't find another glass fuse so I just wrapped the blown fuse in kitchen foil and stuck it back in the speaker.

Like a day later, boom.

We live and learn.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 5:12 PM Post #7,174 of 19,821
Yup, I blew up one mission 770 speaker because of it.

Well, that was after I blew up the glass fuse. I couldn't find another glass fuse so I just wrapped the blown fuse in kitchen foil and stuck it back in the speaker.

Like a day later, boom.

We live and learn.

I have a friend who had one of the original Mini cars. The oil warning light would frequently come on. So he took the bulb out.

Yes, you can guess what happened.

I think you two would have got on well if you had met. :laughing:
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 6:21 PM Post #7,175 of 19,821
I use my TT2 as a headphone DAC/amp. This is the original purpose by design. Driving speakers out of BA from TT2 is sort of an extra function. I am playing with the thought of buying efficient speakers one day and drive them from my TT2, but my life circumstances are not quite ready for that yet.
Anyway, TT2 is not for driving speakers directly by default. TT2 can do that because it is an absolutely outstanding headphone DAC/amp.
If one day I decide to push the TT2 to its limits and drive speakers out of the BA at the back, I will really make sure those speakers are efficient and will sound great without making the TT2 too hot. This might mean, perhaps I can't buy the best of the best speakers just a 'good enough' pair, but those speakers will be driven from a TOTL headphone amplifier... Which is pretty cool (and cost efficient).

Actually the TT2 manual states that the TT2 is good for driving, quote, 'efficient compact loudspeakers'. (Page 45, right hand column, second paragraph.)

I believe efficient speakers is the right move.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 6:23 PM Post #7,176 of 19,821
What you describe is called clipping. And yes, that can destroy speakers (particularly tweeters) at a drop of a hat if you put your mind to it.

Rob has posted several times in this thread about safe levels for the TT2 in high and low gain before clipping. Search for clipping in the TT2 thread.

On amplifiers I believe the distortion is down to hardening of sound, general collapsing of sound quality, and general distortion. Not clipping. I might be wrong though, but I am not going to look it up tonight. Far too past it.

Clipping sounds different to amplifiers distorting to me anyway. Clipping that I have heard is when you put too much signal into an input like an amplifier. .. Anyway I will search this thread for clipping sometime, thanks.


The TT2 may well be different since folk are using it at +5 and a bit higher.
 
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Oct 2, 2019 at 8:11 PM Post #7,182 of 19,821
My power amps are fully configured as a balanced design and only have XLR inputs so I really value the XLR outputs on the TT2 (and Dave) when I am just using them as DACs.

When people say they prefer the balanced outputs of the TT2 driving headphones or speakers compared to the SE outputs there is a part of me that wonders if they properly level match the volumes when comparing or whether the preference for the XLR is because they accidentally have it a bit louder? It is an easy trap to fall into.

I believe 6dB is the difference Rob stated. So should be easy to level match.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 8:22 PM Post #7,183 of 19,821
All headphones sounded better, but the TC had the biggest change. It seems that more power improved the TC sound quality more than my Utopias and Th900mk2. I think perhaps going from single ended to balanced XLR helped out as well


I would think that the difference is also due to the fact that you are driving them with a tube amp. They tend to bring more warmth and can emphasize the bass too.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 8:27 PM Post #7,184 of 19,821
A/b the susvara LCD 4 on mTT2 over last week.

Susvara is substantially better than LCD4 in every respect except LCD 4 has a bit more bass... it is not substantially more... but the much narrower soundstage I believe makes the bass seem more present.

Susvara is really quite amazing... need to try driven by xlr outs.

Hard to see anything else’s other than the TOTL abyss getting close to Susvara.


I currently have the lcd 4, 4z, and 24 all here on loan. I can say that with my old system of the onyx and liquid platinum the audeze all sounded muffled and dull compared t on the abyss. With the TT2 the difference is even more marked. The abyss is head and shoulders above the current audeze offerings. Unless you are in search of that audeze house sound with a mid hump.
 
Oct 2, 2019 at 8:44 PM Post #7,185 of 19,821
No it's not normal - it should be totally silent from 1m away.

I can notice the sound when I am about 5 ft away from the unit. It is reduced when the light is dimmed and totally gone when the display is off. Do I need to send it in for service?
 

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