Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Sep 5, 2022 at 4:16 PM Post #16,936 of 18,905
What nonsense. Watts is the marketing mouthpiece for Chord—his post I responded to is a stark example of that. I am not speaking on behalf of the folks at ASR—I’m speaking on behalf of myself after having been an unwitting victim of these prices before I had the evidence required to make an informed purchase.

There is nothing innovative whatsoever about a brand that charges Cadillac prices yet still utilizes obsolete tech like micro-USB connectors, primitive green LCD screens that can barely be viewed up close and that lack balanced headphone connectors in 2022—these are just a few of the lazy features Chord still sells while far cheaper brands sound just as good and include the latest industry standards. I’m not arguing about the respective benefits of these features, but if I’m going to pay these prices I should surely have the ultimate in options.

Ask yourself what is informing that $14,000 price point for the DAVE, an eight year old product that has long since recouped its pre-market investments? How is it that brands like Gustard can profit from producing a product that performs as least as well on the bench and is priced at literally 1/20th of the DAVE right from launch?

We can quibble over the value of measurements in headphones and amps, but not for DACs. It is true that the differences between Chord products and the superior performance of ES-9038pro-based DACs are beyond the range of human hearing. This latest offering from Chord achieved benchmarks that passed as recommended on ASR, as have all of Chord’s offerings on there, in case you haven’t actually read them. But for $6500+ dollars, this product should be showing the industry how it’s done, and it simply isn’t.

Which is the case for all of Chord’s offerings—they sound great, if you don’t mind missing features like balanced connectors or analog bass enhancers or readable screens, and you’re prepared to need exorbitantly priced add ons like an M-Scaler that for the cost should be integrated into the DAC itself or a proprietary streamer that costs as much as the DAC/AMP you’re pairing it with. I mind these things, especially when I can achieve the same end result at a fraction of the price.

You’re evidently someone who paid until it hurts for one of these products, as I did once, and it makes sense why you would fiercely defend the company you’re held captive to by your wallet. But I’m sorry, when the “designer” of the product I shelled out a fortune to commands me to ignore the measurements or the constructive criticisms of unbiased reviewers, and doesn’t provide me with any compelling information to refute their claims other than the soothing words of his mum to not worry, I’m calling him out.

He’s doing just fine, and as long as you stay loyal he’ll take your sycophantic efforts to defend him. But sorry, I work too hard for the money I part with to bring music into my home, and if I’m going to pay the price of a vehicle for a portable DAC/Amp, I need to see the math behind the sticker price. When that is forthcoming, we can talk. Peace.
Again, you are trying to crusade for ASR/your beliefs in the most hostile, toxic way. You literally just proved my point. I read the other thread and your fellow ASR members agree these hostile posts do nothing but hurt the vision and purpose of ASR

You can be passionate about price for performance audio gear. You can fervently believe Chord products are supremely over priced. You can even choose to believe Rob Watts himself is a charlatan and a fraud. However, these are solely your beliefs and ASR has done nothing to prove or disprove these beliefs definitively to others.

Bottom line, get over yourself. You don’t want to buy Chord products? Fine. Stop with this hostile silliness. You made your point.

I don’t feel like I “paid it until it hurts” for any Chord product. Nor do I feel Rob Watts is a God. But he is a well respected audio engineer who doesn’t deserve childish attacks from a self appointed crusader of “The Truth”.
 
Sep 6, 2022 at 3:52 AM Post #16,937 of 18,905
What nonsense. Watts is the marketing mouthpiece for Chord—his post I responded to is a stark example of that. I am not speaking on behalf of the folks at ASR—I’m speaking on behalf of myself after having been an unwitting victim of these prices before I had the evidence required to make an informed purchase.

There is nothing innovative whatsoever about a brand that charges Cadillac prices yet still utilizes obsolete tech like micro-USB connectors, primitive green LCD screens that can barely be viewed up close and that lack balanced headphone connectors in 2022—these are just a few of the lazy features Chord still sells while far cheaper brands sound just as good and include the latest industry standards. I’m not arguing about the respective benefits of these features, but if I’m going to pay these prices I should surely have the ultimate in options.

Ask yourself what is informing that $14,000 price point for the DAVE, an eight year old product that has long since recouped its pre-market investments? How is it that brands like Gustard can profit from producing a product that performs as least as well on the bench and is priced at literally 1/20th of the DAVE right from launch?

We can quibble over the value of measurements in headphones and amps, but not for DACs. It is true that the differences between Chord products and the superior performance of ES-9038pro-based DACs are beyond the range of human hearing. This latest offering from Chord achieved benchmarks that passed as recommended on ASR, as have all of Chord’s offerings on there, in case you haven’t actually read them. But for $6500+ dollars, this product should be showing the industry how it’s done, and it simply isn’t.

Which is the case for all of Chord’s offerings—they sound great, if you don’t mind missing features like balanced connectors or analog bass enhancers or readable screens, and you’re prepared to need exorbitantly priced add ons like an M-Scaler that for the cost should be integrated into the DAC itself or a proprietary streamer that costs as much as the DAC/AMP you’re pairing it with. I mind these things, especially when I can achieve the same end result at a fraction of the price.

You’re evidently someone who paid until it hurts for one of these products, as I did once, and it makes sense why you would fiercely defend the company you’re held captive to by your wallet. But I’m sorry, when the “designer” of the product I shelled out a fortune to commands me to ignore the measurements or the constructive criticisms of unbiased reviewers, and doesn’t provide me with any compelling information to refute their claims other than the soothing words of his mum to not worry, I’m calling him out.

He’s doing just fine, and as long as you stay loyal he’ll take your sycophantic efforts to defend him. But sorry, I work too hard for the money I part with to bring music into my home, and if I’m going to pay the price of a vehicle for a portable DAC/Amp, I need to see the math behind the sticker price. When that is forthcoming, we can talk. Peace.
Im not gonna play on any team here. But you sound like you just mad because its expensive.

You(ASR) are all just mad because of the price. Its has taken over you all. You look at numbers/measurements and not sound.

(Generalizing)
 
Sep 7, 2022 at 12:40 AM Post #16,939 of 18,905
I’ve tried Chord boss. I’ve owned Chord and myriad other brands. My wallet has suffered for it—that’s the entire reason why I’ve bothered to post this on here.

Ears deceive us more than any of our senses, and cognitive bias has been well-described, studied and validated. Simple differences in voltage outputs can influence one’s perception of “quality”; louder is almost always perceived as “better”. This is where brands like Chord, PS Audio, dCS etc exploit this phenomenon to convince folks to pay five figures for a device with 1000% or higher markups.

The more one pays, the more one is invested in the outcome and the more one is susceptible to cognitive bias. This is why the audio industry has one of the worst reputations for feloniously gouging the wallets of their consumers—do you think the DAVE has $14,000 in machining and material costs justifying that price after eight years?

Measurements can be unreliable when it comes to headphones and amplifiers, due to the nature of the rigs and confounds that impede obtaining consistent results. Not true with DACs—these devices perform only one duty, which is to convert a digital audio stream to an analog waveform with the highest fidelity, lowest noise floor and least distortion possible. In other words, the most faithful reproduction of the original analog master possible, which can easily be visualized via waveform analysis.

I’m sorry, but measurements tell 100% of the story with DACs. They shouldn’t have any “sound” other than what the original master intended. This is what the reputable engineers in the industry rely upon when performing quality testing on their gear prior to launch, and what academics rely upon to perform research and teaching.

Reputable manufacturers release their measurements in the service of transparency; shady manufacturers don’t, stuff their marketing materials with a bunch of claptrap, and set their price points arbitrarily. Why won’t Chord release their own measurements of their gear like less pricey manufacturers do? Maybe because he doesn’t need to. Manufacturers charging these outrageous prices get away with it because of those who buy into these theoretical assets that folks like Watts promote in such a way that sound brilliant but have no basis in science—that’s what I meant by Russell’s Teapot.

When pressed for clarification on these arcane claims, Watts just proffers more speculative arguments until his reasonings become circular and meaningless. That’s why there’s no point in trying to argue with them—he’s making up the math as he goes along and it doesn’t add up.

If you’re happy with your Chord products, then I say that’s terrific—I’m not in any way interested in trying to turn you away from something that brings you joy. Chord products sound great, and I’ve never argued otherwise. My original post was directed to Mr. Watts, not you—and my motivation was based on him dismissing the questions posed by unbiased critics, and not just ASR’s either.

If he’s going to charge $6,500+ for a portable, I want to see what goes into that sticker price. When he’s willing to show his hand, I won’t protest—because if folks still want to pay that much, at least they’ll know that it was solely for the privilege of ownership. That’s all I’m saying, and again, my post was never intended as an insult to you. Peace.

Basic measurements will not show 100% of the story. As Bruno Putzeys stated regarding measurements, there are many types of specific measurements which you can use to characterize and challenge the performance of electronics, not just the standard battery of tests. If you are a designer and had a deep level of understanding of the design you would know what to look for, what those specific tests would be.

Why does the Topping A90D measure worse than the A90, yet sound SO much better? (Yes I auditioned the A90D v A90 w/ Mojo 2 a couple of weekends ago)

Why does the Tambaqui sound much better than other DACs which measure the same or better in SINAD? I remember when I first heard the Tambaqui through headphones, my jaw hit & was glued to the floor. I absolutely did not have that same reaction with the Gustard X18, not even close; as resolute as it was, it lacked so much in comparison. How do I explain that through the standard set of measurements? Absolutely no idea.
 
Sep 7, 2022 at 5:40 AM Post #16,940 of 18,905
Basic measurements will not show 100% of the story. As Bruno Putzeys stated regarding measurements, there are many types of specific measurements which you can use to characterize and challenge the performance of electronics, not just the standard battery of tests. If you are a designer and had a deep level of understanding of the design you would know what to look for, what those specific tests would be.

Why does the Topping A90D measure worse than the A90, yet sound SO much better? (Yes I auditioned the A90D v A90 w/ Mojo 2 a couple of weekends ago)

Why does the Tambaqui sound much better than other DACs which measure the same or better in SINAD? I remember when I first heard the Tambaqui through headphones, my jaw hit & was glued to the floor. I absolutely did not have that same reaction with the Gustard X18, not even close; as resolute as it was, it lacked so much in comparison. How do I explain that through the standard set of measurements? Absolutely no idea.
That’s because measurements only tell part of the story.
 
Sep 7, 2022 at 8:08 AM Post #16,942 of 18,905
Technical question: Does the TT2 need 5V through the USB cable? @Rob Watts Sorry for tagging you :)
 
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Sep 7, 2022 at 8:46 AM Post #16,943 of 18,905
Best video ever and very relevant to some discussions on this thread

 
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Sep 7, 2022 at 9:33 AM Post #16,945 of 18,905
Sep 7, 2022 at 6:37 PM Post #16,946 of 18,905
Any recommendations on a cable adaptor to connect a balanced XLR headphone to the TT2?
I came across this one, but it seems a bit pricy.

https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html

My Focal Clear MG came with both single ended and balanced cables, but the single ended one is too short for my needs.
I bought a longer one (Corpse Cardas), but it sounds like garbage, compared to the stock cable.
So I am looking for an adaptor that will allow me to use the stock XLR cable.
 
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Sep 7, 2022 at 8:05 PM Post #16,947 of 18,905
Any recommendations on a cable adaptor to connect a balanced XLR headphone to the TT2?
I came across this one, but it seems a bit pricy.

https://www.moon-audio.com/moon-audio-silver-dragon-v3-extension-adapter-cable.html

My Focal Clear MG came with both single ended and balanced cables, but the single ended one is too short for my needs.
I bought a longer one (Corpse Cardas), but it sounds like garbage, compared to the stock cable.
So I am looking for an adaptor that will allow me to use the stock XLR cable.
I got one for you, it works perfectly but it may be too cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D7LG5BL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Sep 7, 2022 at 8:18 PM Post #16,948 of 18,905
Sep 8, 2022 at 10:40 AM Post #16,950 of 18,905
Guys, some of you are going in circles.

Different DACs can sound different - I posted an explanation why but all you need to do is download HQPlayer (for free) and hear for yourself. The issue is akin to how 4K TV deal with 480i signals - essentially how do you portray higher resolution from a lower resolution source. Your DAC uses different filters and dithering to reproduce sound from a finite set of data - this effects the sound quality. It’s also why some people are convinced a software solution like HQPlayer and NOS dac is the best and most cost effective solution. I prefer the simplicity of paying a designer that I share a similar taste to make those decisions for me so I went with Chord. Having said that, software like HQPlayer makes you question the value proposition if you believe in this approach.
 

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