[Somatic]

The mscaler transforms the presentation of the tt2 from a flat 2D listening experience to a vivid 3D listening experience full of musical energy and an unmistakable and inexpressible sparkle IMHO. With 1 million taps it is 10 times more accurate than dave. Mscaled tt2 is far more vivid and engaging than dave solo IMHO. If it were me i would ditch the nimbus and use what would amount to around the same financial outlay (i.e. adding a dac to the nimbus) and buy an mscaler with tt2 and become the proud owner of an incredible headphone system and be done. The mscaler affects headphones just as positively as speakers IMHO.

Wondering why you went back to the TT2/HMS. Any reason you didn't add an M-scaler to the Dave?

I agree the Dave has more of a "3D" presentations. More layers but the TT2 is smoother than stock Dave even though its flatter and less engaging.

 

[Triode User]

I agree the Dave has more of a "3D" presentations. More layers but the TT2 is smoother than stock Dave even though its flatter and less engaging.

You are correct that an initial impression of TT2 vs Dave is one of ’smoothness’ but there is a trade off with that which is a significant loss in transparency with the TT2. Also I came to wonder with my TT2 whether the impression of smoothness was maybe just a muddier and less well defined bass and lower mids of the TT2 compared to the Dave. The top end of the Dave in my opinion is more subtle and refined than the TT2 but that is part and parcel of the Dave transparency which applies all the way through the frequency spectrum.

Of course the TT2 has a better ability to drive more difficult headphones and that may well be a deciding factor for many but I do not own any headphones and exclusively use speakers.

The difference in price also cannot be ignored and there is a very significant uplift in cost to go to a Dave especially with the recent price increases. One advantage of Daves long product lifespan is the number available second hand and I would have no hesitation in recommending a second hand Dave if a new one is a stretch too far financially. They all sound the same no matter when they were made and my well over 5 yrs old Dave performs as good as new.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Wondering why you went back to the TT2/HMS. Any reason you didn't add an M-scaler to the Dave?

I agree the Dave has more of a "3D" presentations. More layers but the TT2 is smoother than stock Dave even though its flatter and less engaging.

Well for me actually it is the other way around. TT2 is more engaging, more "thumping" and emotive as well. There's always a "plain and dry" feeling about Dave for me (Used both Chord direct from their Headphone Out). Not that Dave is dry sounding, but when side by side with TT2 that's what I feel.

 

[andrewd01]

One advantage of Daves long product lifespan is the number available second hand and I would have no hesitation in recommending a second hand Dave if a new one is a stretch too far financially. They all sound the same no matter when they were made and my well over 5 yrs old Dave performs as good as new.

I keep an eye on the used market in the UK and second hand Dave’s seem to be rare as hens teeth. I have seen very few and they seem to sell for 80% of the new price.

I suspect we will have to wait for the imminent release of the Dave 2 with onboard 2M tap upscaler to see some affordable Dave’s on the used market

 

[tradyblix]

I mean who would sell a dave unless they were hard up for cash. or fencing a boosted one.

 

[801evan]

I mean who would sell a dave unless they were hard up for cash. or fencing a boosted one.

People who use USB and Roon and who listens to YouTube University.

 

[Kevxl]

People who use USB and Roon and who listens to YouTube University.

I bet some dude is doing exactly that with a Dave. It always amazes me how differently people using their audio equipment no matter how expensive.

 

[801evan]

I bet some dude is doing exactly that with a Dave. It always amazes me how differently people using their audio equipment no matter how expensive.

It's tough. If one does the fast route of learning then they'll get suckered by a smooth talking YouTuber who has a lot of gear and analyzers and get thoroughly convinced cables don't make a difference, USB is bit perfect, Roon is bit-perfect....where bass peaks (is bass slam) and treble peaks are now big dynamics, where lack of mid bass is now clean and a big soundstage...add a dose of 'its all in your head' and 'bias' and....it's a perfect marketing recipe.

 

[Triode User]

I keep an eye on the used market in the UK and second hand Dave’s seem to be rare as hens teeth. I have seen very few and they seem to sell for 80% of the new price.

I suspect we will have to wait for the imminent release of the Dave 2 with onboard 2M tap upscaler to see some affordable Dave’s on the used market

The lowest I have seen in the UK is £5k recently but I suspect that seller is simply unaware of how much he could get if he had bothered to do some research.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

It's tough. If one does the fast route of learning then they'll get suckered by a smooth talking YouTuber who has a lot of gear and analyzers and get thoroughly convinced cables don't make a difference, USB is bit perfect, Roon is bit-perfect....where bass peaks (is bass slam) and treble peaks are now big dynamics, where lack of mid bass is now clean and a big soundstage...add a dose of 'its all in your head' and 'bias' and....it's a perfect marketing recipe.

I've seen some of your post about this (in other thread as well).

i just want to put my opinion, that in audio, just like food or wine, there's no 100% right answer (Because all of them are about senses, not math). Perfect bass for you may lack of impact for some others. Whatever knowledge you have will never change that, and it shouldn't be as well. You can not force "taste" and "preference" to other people no matter what science things you have in your mind.

If you think you know everything about science to back up your listening experience, then it's good for you. Just don't say people who don't follow your science as "wrong".

 

[801evan]

You can not force "taste" and "preference" to other people no matter what science things you have in your mind

Explain that to people who sets up THX and Dolby for cinema. I guess each maintenance person sets it up to their preference.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Explain that to people who sets up THX and Dolby for cinema. I guess each maintenance person sets it up to their preference.

< butting in >
The point you're making is valid, but doesn't really counter @TheMiddleSky 's point.

Sure, venue A/V personnel have standards which they tune systems to. And the movie production teams have standards which they adhere to when creating the sound tracks. All true.

But the targets are some 'pleasant average' which sound 'good enough' to the bulk of the audience. For example, somewhere along the line, folks have to decide between

It will be hard for older folks to hear this dialog
and
Boy, this is gonna be really loud/sharp/piercing for young folks with no hearing loss

Sure, that's an obvious and simplistic example, but I hope it makes the point clear.

Our ears and brain are part of the system. And since the designers have no control over that, all their efforts to scientifically ensure that what you hear is what they intended stop at the surface of the transducer, and fail to the degree that the hearing system is non-standard.

If this were not true, we would all be merrily listening to systems which exactly reproduce the Harman curve, and the only things differentiating equipment would be price and trim level.

 

[801evan]

Our ears and brain are part of the system. And since the designers have no control over that, all their efforts to scientifically ensure that what you hear is what they intended stop at the surface of the transducer, and fail to the degree that the hearing system is non-standard.

If this were not true, we would all be merrily listening to systems which exactly reproduce the Harman curve, and the only things differentiating equipment would be price and trim level.

But that goes back to my point of the YouTube University personalities. The headphone has bass peaks and treble peaks and they call it to be more dynamic than another headphone , which has no bass peaks or treble peak, doesn't congest bass and has good bass extension. It's all bad education. I know you are making a point by using someone with a particular hearing impairment but it's a weak argument for subjectivity...

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Explain that to people who sets up THX and Dolby for cinema. I guess each maintenance person sets it up to their preference.

You can't be serious to compare a person who build personal headphone set up, to audience that watching cinema. What audience able do with the sound setting if they don't like it? Nothing.

Also, from Set-up person aside, have you compared multiple cinema room with THX technology? Here in my city there are plenty numbers of them, none of them sound exactly the same (Even though from the same cinemas's brand). At one time , our local audio group even held casual event, to test multiple cinemas in one day. We have our own preferences.

But that goes back to my point of the YouTube University personalities. The headphone has bass peaks and treble peaks and they call it to be more dynamic than another headphone , which has no bass peaks or treble peak, doesn't congest bass and has good bass extension. It's all bad education. I know you are making a point by using someone with a particular hearing impairment but it's a weak argument for subjectivity...

This is when the problem start. To whom bass peak is bass peak, and no bass peak is no bass peak? Not everyone should follow your ear's rules. Bass peak for you may become natural bass for other people. You can't change that fact no matter how much data science you have. That's the reason each headphone brand has their own uniqueness in character.

Topping and SMSL are living proofs, that the flattest and the cleanest in measurement don't always translate to be the best in listening experience. Sound perception is not math.

Anyway I will stop here, afraid to derail the thread too long. Happy listening

 

[801evan]

This is when the problem start. To whom bass peak is bass peak, and no bass peak is no bass peak? Not everyone should follow your ear's rules. Bass

Quite surprised you asked this for someone who has posted 3000 times...kinda affirms what I've been saying but as you do...