[LCMusicLover]

But that goes back to my point of the YouTube University personalities. The headphone has bass peaks and treble peaks and they call it to be more dynamic than another headphone , which has no bass peaks or treble peak, doesn't congest bass and has good bass extension. It's all bad education. I know you are making a point by using someone with a particular hearing impairment but it's a weak argument for subjectivity...

Oh, the 'hearing loss' example was just to make the distinction obvious.

My argument is that everybody's hearing is different, even as children. Sure, like all other human characteristics, there's probably some normal distribution -- I have no idea what the units of measure are, nor what the std. dev. might be. Nevertheless, all efforts to achieve 'technical perfection' will founder on the rock of human variability.

It's similar to what I used to experience with color presses. Pressmen make fine adjustments to their presses to slightly modify the images they produce. And, in the end, what they are doing is 'tuning' the color to meet the preferences of the customer reps who will sign the contract proofs. It's not 'perfect' -- there is no 'perfect'.

 

[801evan]

It's similar to what I used to experience with color presses. Pressmen make fine adjustments to their presses to slightly modify the images they produce. And, in the end, what they are doing is 'tuning' the color to meet the preferences of the customer reps who will sign the contract proofs. It's not 'perfect' -- there is no 'perfect'.

This is the case because different paper has different white points and ink absorption so one has to adjust the color density per rag. This process has to be approved by the client and that becomes the 'master' for that paper. There's a reason it's called a 'proof' and that customer rep is trained to know how the output should be, it is not of personal preference but that person represents the company and is vouched for their judgement. Same as how a vinyl will be a different master from a CD, and the person responsible for that album has to sign it off. That example is quite different your initial argument that everyone hears differently.

 

[LCMusicLover]

... This is when the problem start. To whom bass peak is bass peak, and no bass peak is no bass peak?

Quite surprised you asked this for someone who has posted 3000 times...kinda affirms what I've been saying but as you do...

This is actually the crux of the issue.

When is a bass peak a bass peak? One presumes that it's a peak when carefully measured responses from the system differ significantly from 'standard' or 'reference'. But what is that? Point is that any suggestion that some piece of equipment has 'non-standard' output inherently suggests that such a 'standard' exists.

And while such a standard clearly does exist, (since there is a general consensus as to what a reference sound is) there's no rigid/fixed measuring stick which can be used to compare all systems. What you have instead, is a consensus based on a cluster of results which tend to some target. But why is that target 'right'?

I still remember endless arguments with my college room-mate over whether my Advent or his JBL L100 speakers were more accurate. Of course he was wrong

But the reality is that neither of us was 'right'. While we could endlessly compare the sound and accurately describe the relative performance of the two systems, all that talk got us no closer to 'See, mine are closer to perfect!'

You can compare freq response graphs all day, but what you are doing is examining relative differences. And you can compare vs the Harman curve, but again, that's an arbitrarily agreed standard.

It's absolutely useful to have tools and language and standards to use to compare the performance of different systems, but I don't believe in the notion of a 'perfect' target.

< /butting in >

 

[LCMusicLover]

This is the case because different paper has different white points and ink absorption so one has to adjust the color density per rag. This process has to be approved by the client and that becomes the 'master' for that paper. There's a reason it's called a 'proof' and that customer rep is trained to know how the output should be, it is not of personal preference but that person represents the company and is vouched for their judgement. Same as how a vinyl will be a different master from a CD, and the person responsible for that album has to sign it off. That example is quite different your initial argument that everyone hears differently.

That's not consistent with my personal experience. I vividly recall a vigorous argument over a particular shirt -- was the pink too bright, or too muted? Two customer reps were really going at it.

But this isn't about color science.

I guess (in your CD vs vinyl example) you're suggesting that (to borrow a color term) the CD has a different 'gamut' than vinyl. Not sure how that's relevant here. Perhaps you're saying that (as in color science) there's intent, and then there's as close as we can get on this device -- leading to the analogy that the most correct/accurate equipment will come closest to the intent. But I don't know how we discover and codify that intent. There's certainly no way to embed a source profile -- I guess we have silently accepted something analogous to sRGB for audio encoding.

Anyway, seems like this discussion requires a back porch and alcohol. Since neither are currently available, let's leave it here.

Cheers!

 

[Icenine2]

I unstacked and separated my TT2 from the HMS. Waiting for delivery of the DAVE so HMS had to be moved anyway. I don't notice any difference in sound at all. But the TT2 runs much cooler not stacked on the HMS. I'm sure I'm the last to realize that but there it is.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

I unstacked and separated my TT2 from the HMS. Waiting for delivery of the DAVE so HMS had to be moved anyway. I don't notice any difference in sound at all. But the TT2 runs much cooler not stacked on the HMS. I'm sure I'm the last to realize that but there it is.

Yes, what I heard was a 1% difference on some tracks. Chord even told me when I inquired that they expect the M Scaler to make more of a difference with speakers than headphones. In my own, humble, less experienced than others view, many reviews out there on the M Scaler oversell it. It's supposed to add this 5-10%, noticeable difference. My reality was that I had to listen for it damn hard. And the big test was supposed to be... listen with it for a month, then take it out of the system and the difference will be clear. Yeah... that wasn't my experience.

 

[Icenine2]

I was writing about them being separated by about three feet. Or disconnected. I hear a significant difference with the HMS

 

[bluenight]

Is Hugo TT2 + mscaler better then Spring 3 KTE?

 

[Triode User]

Is Hugo TT2 + mscaler better then Spring 3 KTE?

I don’t know about the Spring but I compared TT2 + Mscaler in my system to a May L2 and preferred the TT2 combination by some margin.

 

[bluenight]

There's a good used deal for around 6000$ maybe to good to be thru? A scam?

 

[alxw0w]

There's a good used deal for around 6000$ maybe to good to be thru? A scam?

Could be legit the price isn't too low to be true.

ps. If you want a scam free experience I'm selling my TT2

 

[alekc]

I don’t know about the Spring but I compared TT2 + Mscaler in my system to a May L2 and preferred the TT2 combination by some margin.

@bluenight I prefer Rockna WaveLight comparing to TT2 + M-Scaler any time but then you need to add amp to Rockna. At the end of the day it is all so subjective and based on your own personal experience and preference I wouldn't make any assumption on others stories including mine

 

[bluenight]

But the Hugo TT2 amp is still rubbish? I mean reletively speaking, a Ferrum Oor + Hypsos that i am about to order will give much better amplification then Hugo TT2 internal amp? TT2 dac output to Ferrum. Or would it make the Ferrum combo unnecessary and redundant if you buy TT2?

Yep iam coming from Hugo2 portable with my insights but i think I have read others saying for exe an Violectric HPA V550 gave much better amplification to TT2 dac stage.

Susvara maybe needs ferrum but maybe not HD800S?

 

[801evan]

But the Hugo TT2 amp is still rubbish? I mean reletively speaking, a Ferrum Oor + Hypsos that i am about to order will give much better amplification then Hugo TT2 internal amp? TT2 dac output to Ferrum. Or would it make the Ferrum combo unnecessary and redundant if you buy TT2?

Yep iam coming from Hugo2 portable with my insights but i think I have read others saying for exe an Violectric HPA V550 gave much better amplification to TT2 dac stage.

Ferrum would be unnecessary and will be less transparent. Even a Hugo 2 can drive a Susvara with zero distortion and with excellent sub bass.

 

[bluenight]

Anyone owned both TT2 combined with Ferrum combo?

Ferrum would be unnecessary and will be less transparent. Even a Hugo 2 can drive a Susvara with zero distortion and with excellent sub bass.

It might add som fullness, scale and weight?

That's the case with Hugo2 and Lake People RS 02 imo.