Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[Reactcore]

I'm using one of these at the moment with a suitable fuse and inline switch. I charge it with a spare Victron MPPT solar charge controller.

I would avoid an inbuilt BMS as its processing can give noise. Its why my Choral battery project uses raw LIFEPO4 cells and a by relays disconnected balancing circuit while not charging.

 

[MarkParity]

I would avoid an inbuilt BMS as its processing can give noise. Its why my Choral battery project uses raw LIFEPO4 cells and a by relays disconnected balancing circuit while not charging.

The BMS is really just switching a bunch of MOSFETs which are used as simple on/off switches, yes its contains a microcontroller but its got a pretty large capacitor behind it for smoothing. Anyway it should be electrically quieter than a regulated power bank or the SMPS that came with it so that's good enough for me.

Seems like everything I try I get shot down round here, it all seems a bit obsessive to me.

Over and out for a few months again, bye.

 

[Reactcore]

The BMS is really just switching a bunch of MOSFETs which are used as simple on/off switches, yes its contains a microcontroller but its got a pretty large capacitor behind it for smoothing. Anyway it should be electrically quieter than a regulated power bank or the SMPS that came with it so that's good enough for me.

Seems like everything I try I get shot down round here, it all seems a bit obsessive to me.

Over and out for a few months again, bye.

No pun intended just posting my thoughts.

Most important is to prevent HMS own noise from entering your DAC via the mains which is what youre doing

 

[k3kz]

hi everyone, currently testing an m-scaler with my tt2.
because it has a video mode with reduced filter length, i had expected that running full sample rate (white) would cause audio to be delayed noticeably. apparently though, when using a windows pc as my source (connected via USB), everything is pretty well synced with video mode off, to my surprise. I do note though that about the first second of every track (video on youtube, streamed movie, streamed track on tidal etc) is just not played, after that it's almost synched perfectly.
is this what others are experiencing too? something done by the driver perhaps? since i have very little experience with the m-scaler, so i didnt know what to expect. but i'd like to know if i have the full WTA filter applied of course.

 

[Meridian7]

I've noticed delay of sound on videos what make me realize oh I must put video mode ON. That is when a toslink of my tv set goes into mscaler.

 

[k3kz]

I've noticed delay of sound on videos what make me realize oh I must put video mode ON. That is when a toslink of my tv set goes into mscaler.

see that's what i'd expect, but it doesnt happen like that when using my PC as a source. TT2 shows DBNC and 706 khz, but still very little noticeable delay (perhaps a few ms?) despite video mode being off. that being said i think my TV screen has like 30-40ms of latency too.

/edit i found what it is: I had a really high sampling rate set in Windows (384khz).
This effectively nullifies the delay M-Scaler induces.

I ask myself though: does that also lessen the effect of using the M-Scaler? Otherwise, that'd be a very easy solution (or sort of an automatic video mode). It's worth mentioning that I use tidal's "exclusive mode" for music listening, which then overrides windows' sampling rate. since delay in music listening barely matters...

 

[Jawed]

see that's what i'd expect, but it doesnt happen like that when using my PC as a source. TT2 shows DBNC and 706 khz, but still very little noticeable delay (perhaps a few ms?) despite video mode being off. that being said i think my TV screen has like 30-40ms of latency too.

/edit i found what it is: I had a really high sampling rate set in Windows (384khz).
This effectively nullifies the delay M-Scaler induces.

I ask myself though: does that also lessen the effect of using the M-Scaler? Otherwise, that'd be a very easy solution.

Unfortunately the default mixer in Windows takes all audio and uses the sample rate you have set.

Some streaming applications, e.g. Tidal, will correctly override the Windows mixer and provide audio output at the native sample rate of the music you're listening to. You have to configure this specifically to make it work like this. Aha, you edited again, so you knew this already.

For video playback with automatic detection, HMS assumes it is from video only when 48KHz sample rate is being sent. If 96KHz or some higher multiple of 48 is used, HMS will treat it as music. The left-most button will show blue-green when it detects 48KHz audio. Otherwise you can force video mode by clicking this button so that it shows white.

I have a PC connected to HMS over optical for YouTube, with Windows set to 48KHz and 24-bit. I have a streamer connected to HMS over optical for streamed music (internet or locally ripped music). I use the automatic video mode, so I get yellow on this button when listening to music from my streamer and blue-green when listening to YouTube from the PC.

I also use the automatic input feature of HMS, which is achieved using the button just to the right of the video mode button. Click it repeatedly until it shows pink to get automatic input switching.

EDIT: to comment on your further edit.

 

[k3kz]

Unfortunately the default mixer in Windows takes all audio and uses the sample rate you have set.

Some streaming applications, e.g. Tidal, will correctly override the Windows mixer and provide audio output at the native sample rate of the music you're listening to. You have to configure this specifically to make it work like this. Aha, you edited again, so you knew this already.

For video playback with automatic detection, HMS assumes it is from video only when 48KHz sample rate is being sent. If 96KHz or some higher multiple of 48 is used, HMS will treat it as music. The left-most button will show blue-green when it detects 48KHz audio. Otherwise you can force video mode by clicking this button so that it shows white.

I have a PC connected to HMS over optical for YouTube, with Windows set to 48KHz and 24-bit. I have a streamer connected to HMS over optical for streamed music (internet or locally ripped music). I use the automatic video mode, so I get yellow on this button when listening to music from my streamer and blue-green when listening to YouTube from the PC.

I also use the automatic input feature of HMS, which is achieved using the button just to the right of the video mode button. Click it repeatedly until it shows pink to get automatic input switching.

EDIT: to comment on your further edit.

Thanks! Very helpful that you shared this. Yep, guilty as charged, i was kind of editing along as I discovered things

I could also just do it like you, set Windows to 48khz and then use Auto-Video-Mode, which gives me a shorter WTA filter but lets the M-Scaler do the upsampling.
Thanks for this idea.

I guess my question is: If i let Windows output at a higher sampling rate for things that don't "bring their own" like Tidal's client, do I effectively degrade sound quality?
Or to put it differently should I let the M-Scaler do the heavy lifting, does the long WTA filter do less when applied to higher sampling rates?
Needs more testing.

 

[Jawed]

I guess my question is: If i let Windows output at a higher sampling rate for things that don't "bring their own" like Tidal's client, do I effectively degrade sound quality?
Or to put it differently should I let the M-Scaler do the heavy lifting, does the long WTA filter do less when applied to higher sampling rates?
Needs more testing.

HMS is pretty pointless if you set Windows to upsample, you will lose sound quality! You're basically "breaking" the data and asking HMS to fix it.

There's a different game to play with internet streams or downloads: which sample rate to choose for an album? Sometimes there's a 96KHz version or a 192KHz version. It would seem that the highest sample rate is the best one to choose. Except, sadly, many times these higher-sample rate albums are upsampled from, say, 44.1KHz. So it's more of the same faulty processing that Windows does - maybe not so bad.

The advice generally is to find the version of the album as it was originally made.

Overall, upsampling with HMS will have less effect with music that has higher sampling rates - that's a direct result of the mathematics.

 

[beemarman]

Hi,

After reading this, I found that the recommended battery for the HMS is the BP90.

Getting one from the US will not only take ages, but the import tax on top will make it an expensive purchase. What battery pack would people recommend for us in the UK or Europe?

 

[liam boyle]

Just an FYI for anyone reading all the way to the end of this thread, Amazon UK have a Talentcell 12v lithium battery pack which is airline compatible at 99.9Wh currently costs £80 so is considerably easier, cheaper and faster to get hold of than importing the Bixpower battery AND crucially it's 12v output is unregulated direct from the cells via only the BMS safety disconnect. The package usefully includes a 5.5/2.1 to 5.5/2.5 coax plug cable and charging brick with UK plug so nothing else is required to get the M Scaler off the mains.

https://amzn.eu/d/iIFIYXY

That one works great. ATM I use a chunky 30Ah LFP battery at home for all day use.

 

[Meridian7]

That one works great. ATM I use a chunky 30Ah LFP battery at home for all day use.

I have also such a relative biggie.

About that link to the portable brick or bricks in general:
A lot of them depart from a one cell voltage. Potentially more cells in parallel but still ending in a one cell voltage. Advantage is no need for cell balancing circuits that way.
After which a strict x3 voltage multiplication follows to gets us to the 12V range.
So we see a swinging output voltage since there is no voltage regulation really which makes us smile, we hate voltage regulators after batteries as it defeats the purpose a bit.
But we still have that strict x3 voltage circuit potentially of which we don't know if it introduces noise like a voltage regulator does.

Some bricks advert the 1 cell voltage starting point principle, but some might not?

If a brick uses 3 cells in series (and as such is equiped with cell balancing circuit) and has an voltage unregulated output, you are fine.

If a brick does start from 1 cell voltage and they don't tell you, and use a x3 voltage pump, even though you see a swinging output voltage you still have that pump circuit that, to me, is unclear if its a noisy element in the chain.

Imho a BMS does not add noise to reckon with. I use it with extreme succes. A non brick typical 12V 8Ah battery is just below 100Wh for traveling. No voltage regulators or x3 pumps guaranteed, just BMS.

 

[liam boyle]

It's approx 12v, actually 10.8v min to 12.3v max, unregulated direct from cells via the BMS board, it is 3S cell arrangment, like the Bixpower unit. It works very well with M Scaler, reasonable cost and available for quick delivery.

 

[Meridian7]

It's approx 12v, actually 10.8v min to 12.3v max, unregulated direct from cells via the BMS board, it is 3S cell arrangment, like the Bixpower unit. It works very well with M Scaler, reasonable cost and available for quick delivery.

If it's true 3S setup its very good indeed. But how does one know if manufacturer site is still about it? Maybe I missed something.

 

[beemarman]

That one works great. ATM I use a chunky 30Ah LFP battery at home for all day use.

Hello,

I have just received this from Amazon. The cables included in the package don't fit the Chord Mscaler power input. The included cables are too small. Do you know the correct size adapter I need to get this working? Do I need something like this? If so, what size should I order? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-Converter-Equipment-Surveillance-Notebook/dp/B08M5MHKRH