[Whazzzup]

Would this be because of your most excellent server?

Maybe if we all had your server we could just wrap this whole audio industry thing up and move onto something else - lol

Whatever floats your boat to deliver that bit perfect basic flac.

 

[ZappaMan]

Whatever floats your boat to deliver that bit perfect basic flac.

That’s why I’m asking rob for his insight into the machines he designed. I thought romaz post interesting, and an opportunity to understand how the machines work.
Something I can’t tell from the outside.

 

[adyc]

While I also don't know the complexities of what Rob has done in terms of programming the FPGA, as an IT bizdev guy, I have lived through the arguments between general CPUs vs. FPGAs vs. ASICs since the 1990's.

As I understand it, ASICs and FPGAs can do many many tiny processes with a ton of small IO gates, while general CPUs can do very few but very powerful processes with fewer IO gates.

Of course, as CPUs have become more powerful every year, they can handle more multi-threading, but the numbers they post are often illusory, as general CPUs use a number of tactics to make it seem like it's handling several threads, but in fact is staggering them off of a limited number of cores (1, 2, 4, 8, 16 cores, etc.), and staggering processed data through a limited number of IO gates, usually in a round robin fashion, though sometimes giving some processes more "turns" than others to pass through the gates (a kind of QoS tagging in a chip). The fact that with a general CPU, those commands for what tactics to use to give the high count levels of multi-threading are controlled by software, which in turn can have hiccups in talking to the CPU, can compound very tiny levels of timing accuracy and speed.

When timing is much more critical, I imagine (and I have no real understanding of this except for major assumptions), having an actual physical high count of low cpu cores (hundreds, thousands, even millions in some FPGAs), and having hundreds or thousands of actual physical IO gates, allows for much more accurately timed processes. That picosecond, nanosecond level of accuracy over time is, I'm totally guessing, what Rob needs to ensure transient tap lengths are delivered accurately to achieve natural sound as close to the original analog wave length as possible.

The second advantage of FPGAs vs. both ASICs and general CPUs is that the management of the gates are field programmable (hence the name, field programmable gate array), meaning, they can have very specific functions, thus reducing bloat or unnecessary code in the chipset. Which, if I understand the marketing correctly, makes it as close to a true SoC as you can get in a single affordable chip.

Ultimately, general CPUs can do the same thing as FPGAs, but since general CPUs simulate high numbers of cores and high numbers of IO through simulation, and it's controlled by software, it's much harder to control the accurate timing of data. General CPUs are just not designed for that type of process.

-----

I could be totally wrong, since my connecting of assumptive dots leading to my above conclusion comes from my bizdev work in the IT industry. Maybe Rob's reasons are completely different, but though this might perhaps be the reasoning for it.

Thanks for your post. This is the first step to the answer. It is so much more constructive than the fanboys.

 

[miketlse]

Anyone decided what music they are gonna play first on the M scaler?

@Peter Hyatt created the Mojos Greatest Hits thread
I created the Music I shall use to test my Hugo 2 thread
This is your opportunity to create the Music I shall use to test my M Scaler thread

 

[Amberlamps]

You haven't answered the question why one can't implement Mscaler filter in PC.

Say wta filter and robs mscaler was your idea.

You could write software for a pc that consists of the wta filter but, desktop cpu’s are not good at that type of thing, they are not designed with things like that in mind. It would be a waste of resources and time and time is money.

However, writing it for a dedicated gpu or 2, I would say it is possible and would probably be just as capable as the stand alone mscaler but, have you seen the price of quadro gpu’s nowadays ?

This is probably what would be needed.

https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/gpu-nvidia/nvidia-quadro-3d-high-end

£3500 doesn’t seem that much for a lifetimes work when comparing it with the above quadro’s.

Plus it got LED’s,

 

[adyc]

Say wta filter and robs mscaler was your idea.

You could write software for a pc that consists of the wta filter but, desktop cpu’s are not good at that type of thing, they are not designed with things like that in mind. It would be a waste of resources and time and time is money.

However, writing it for a dedicated gpu or 2, I would say it is possible and would probably be just as capable as the stand alone mscaler but, have you seen the price of quadro gpu’s nowadays ?

This is probably what would be needed.

https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/gpu-nvidia/nvidia-quadro-3d-high-end

£3500 doesn’t seem that much for a lifetimes work when comparing it with the above quadro’s.

Thanks. This CA guy sells software. I can understand he has bias vs FPGA. Please see the thread

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...rds-new-m-scaler/?tab=comments#comment-850827

He attacks Chord quite furiously. Of course, one can choose to ignore him but it is not the first time he is doing it. He has quite a large number of followers. I really want some convincing arguments against him.

 

[514077]

Would this be because of your most excellent server?

Maybe if we all had your server we could just wrap this whole audio industry thing up and move onto something else - lol

Sounds like a response to Wazzzzup. His answer to every question is his server.

 

[514077]

Thanks. This CA guy sells software. I can understand he has bias vs FPGA. Please see the thread

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...rds-new-m-scaler/?tab=comments#comment-850827

He attacks Chord quite furiously. Of course, one can choose to ignore him butiIt is not the first time he is doing it. He has quite a large number of followers. I really want some convincing arguments against him.

I can understand why. But, a fire-eater must find fire to eat. He probably lives on the attention. Maybe research will give you more of an appreciation for Chord DACs. Bet it won't impress this guy, no matter what you say. But, good luck to you.

 

[rgs9200m]

LOL, maybe the discussion topic should return to ferrites

 

[Whazzzup]

weird, I didn't mention my server, so now i just did, server. Its black as well, the best audio color....

 

[Amberlamps]

Whatever floats your boat to deliver that bit perfect basic flac.

His boat floats on a non newtonian fluid.

Other wise known as lumpy c oncrete

 

[asia]

You are missing the point. The point in discussion here is the processing power of PC vs FPGA. Why can't one implement Mscaler filter in PC? It is just multiplications. This guy always has bias against FPGA. But I am looking for a convincing argument against him.

Yes, implementing an interpolator on the PC is of course possible and actually straightforward. A 256 million tap filter for higher 24 bit accuracy would be possible also. But most likely not in real-time, so interpolations would be saved as Flac files for later replay. Unknown is the filter windowing function and other details, so interpolations likely would not be identical to M Scaler. An API should include a windowing function option and output sampling rate. You choose what sounds best.

 

[Whitigir]

Yes, implementing an interpolator on the PC is of course possible and actually straightforward. A 256 million tap filter for higher 24 bit accuracy would be possible also. But most likely not in real-time, so interpolations would be saved as Flac files for later replay. Unknown is the filter windowing function and other details, so interpolations likely would not be identical to M Scaler. An API should include a windowing function option and output sampling rate. You choose what sounds best.

Now, this is real speaking. But then yet again, that filter is unknown to anybody else, but Chord propriety

 

[paul2qute]

weird, I didn't mention my server, so now i just did, server. Its black as well, the best audio color....

Dnt forget the antipodes ...

 

[GryphonGuy]

Dual bnc is the preferred connection m scaler to tt2.

... and the only one that delivers the 1M-tap "magic"

Much to do about nothing. Bit perfect 41 16 bit delivery in my case USB.

Shakespeare wrote "Much ADO about nothing" and a synonym for ado is fuss. So much fuss about nothing.

Thanks. This CA guy sells software. I can understand he has bias vs FPGA. Please see the thread

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...rds-new-m-scaler/?tab=comments#comment-850827

He attacks Chord quite furiously. Of course, one can choose to ignore him but it is not the first time he is doing it. He has quite a large number of followers. I really want some convincing arguments against him.

Anybody who attacks Rob's DAC designs or Chord Electronics implementation of them simply has not heard how, in my case, DAVE's timbre accuracy and transient delivery is second to none. Musically, the presentation is so coherent and enjoyable. Their attacks cause me to pity their closed minds and I simply move on. I generally don't retaliate with hate-speech of my own to counter any attacks because the Chord DACs simply speak for themselves if one just listens.

Regards
GG