[Christer]

I just know youre following the Dave thread from start (7 years) liking it all the time.

Besides theres a chance 2nd hand Dave's get more popular and costly again once their new 'upgrade' is released..

Yes and no, even Dave needs Mscaling to satisfy me and I felt that Mscaler was more important than getting a Dave on its own so I chose Qutest/Mscaler as a compromise I could both travel with and live with until getting a second hand Dave or TT2. Then Covid happened ,but I hope that when the "new upgrades" arrive both Dave and TT2 will drop considerably in price, not increase in price.
Cheers CC

 

[Jawed]

I reckon DAVE 2 won't be far behind the new Choral Super Scaler and Ultima DAC - that's when DAVE's price will crash. There's a lot of DAVEs out there...

Within 3 years?...

 

[Christer]

Now that I have softened you up with Ms Hahn, let me try to get my message across a bit better.
But before that, regarding the song "I am not in love, by 10CC". I bet you anything, that you know the song! and after the first few bars, you will start to humm it. One of the catchiest songs ever.
That Hilary Hahn album, is a fantastic performance (a bit fast tempo-ed) , it is punchy, sweet, crystal clear, could do with a little treble lift (just a little) but it is a Manufactured Album. Such a sound, in my opinion and experience, can not happen Live (been to many many concerts over the years, including Ms Hahn herself).
The way it is recorded, mixed and engineered, has a lot to do with the final sound quality and musical satisfaction, one gets from it.
Going back to 10cc, that song is also a manufactured song. The famous, catchy choral voices, was recorded, re-recorded and then re-recorded again. It was mixed many times over, to come up with the final sound. Even 10cc themselves, couldn't faithfully reproduce it. The art of recording it, was part of the performance.
Of course, we all know what Hifi really means. It means faithful to the original.
But what if the original was never Live ?
Hifi does not mean truthful to Live , does it?
You want live classical recordings, get some Russian radio recordings of David Oistrakh, not the EMI recordings. Then hear what live recordings can sound like.

This is also mixed and tweaked, but you get a good ambience.
A fantastic album, with Khachaturian himself, conducting.

If "the original was never live" I am generally not interested in it,sorry. But I used to travel to both Sri Lanka and India with the then only real Budget Airline,Russian Aeroflot, on a regular basis many years ago and I always bought some Melodia LPs at Berioschka on the compulsory Moskow stop-over on the way back home after yet another winter in Asia.
Two mics in a good position in a good hall could come quite close to how an orchestra sounds live in a good hall even in those days.But hi res digital and Mscaling is even better. Compared to how compromised and "doctored" for "home listening conditions" most multimic'd DGG LPs sounded in those days the best of my Melodia LPs ,were at their best about as good as it got in those days until the simply mic'd Direct Cut LPs arrived at the end of the analogue era.
And the irony of it all was that Russia did not have access to or money to spend on all those mics and mixing boards DGG and other Western labels used to make their recordings "palatable" via the average boom-box home systems in most homes, those days.

Cheers CC

 

[Sonic Defender]

Not really feeling the plight of the common people are we?

 

[Christer]

Not really feeling the plight of the common people are we?

Hmm, Did "Budget Airline" entirely escape your attention in my post above?
Cheers CC

 

[Kentajalli]

If "the original was never live" I am generally not interested in it,sorry.

In that case, I am happy for you, but do accept that at least some of us, ARE interested in other types of music other than live.
I don't believe you represent the majority, which is fine, we are all individuals.
But arguing on a public forum, about what Hifi means, or if some recordings are engineered to sound good when reproduced, would never match live recordings, is a bit personal, to you.
I belong to that different group, that enjoys live concerts, and also enjoy engineered recordings, and I do appreciate the hard work and art that goes into such recordings.
Who knows, perhaps it is me that belongs to a minority.
Oh Well . . ..

 

[GuiltyRocker]

In that case, I am happy for you, but do accept that at least some of us, ARE interested in other types of music other than live.
I don't believe you represent the majority, which is fine, we are all individuals.
But arguing on a public forum, about what Hifi means, or if some recordings are engineered to sound good when reproduced, would never match live recordings, is a bit personal, to you.
I belong to that different group, that enjoys live concerts, and also enjoy engineered recordings, and I do appreciate the hard work and art that goes into such recordings.
Who knows, perhaps it is me that belongs to a minority.
Oh Well . . ..

He definitely doesn't represent the majority, I love excellently produced albums whether they are live or not don't care, musicians playing at one time or another and properly wrapped into an album is what matters.

 

[Christer]

In that case, I am happy for you, but do accept that at least some of us, ARE interested in other types of music other than live.
I don't believe you represent the majority, which is fine, we are all individuals.
But arguing on a public forum, about what Hifi means, or if some recordings are engineered to sound good when reproduced, would never match live recordings, is a bit personal, to you.
I belong to that different group, that enjoys live concerts, and also enjoy engineered recordings, and I do appreciate the hard work and art that goes into such recordings.
Who knows, perhaps it is me that belongs to a minority.
Oh Well . . ..

Rest assured, it is most probably NOT you who belong in a minority, it's me.
Having said that I could not avoid thinking of Groucho Marx saying about himself .

"I do not want to be a member of a Club that allows people like me as their members."

Regarding those Melodia LPs I forgot to mention that even though they often got the balance right for HIGHER FIDELITY, they also had to stick to inferior vinyl quality so pressings were often quite noisy.
On my listening lists recently 3 imho MAJOR Contemporary Composers with one thing in common,all three "youngish women", have been what has kept me listening over and over again to some of their works via my Mscaler even on Youtube.
Icelandic Anna Thorwaldsdottir's truly Amazing Works like "Dreaming" and "Aeriality" And some of the Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi's music like her Empíreo together with Italian Clara Ianotta's "Echo from Afar" let me dive into Orchestral Soundscapes so fascinating that some Standard Repertoire Western Classical Music that Hilary Hahn and Ann-Sophie Mutter normally perform both live on stage and recordings can sound a bit tame in comparison.
Strongly recommended for those Music Lovers brave enough to take a few steps beyond their usual comfort zone . All three available on Youtube in quite ok SQ
Mscaled .
Cheers CC

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Ve

Rest assured, it is most probably NOT you who belong in a minority, it's me.
Having said that I could not avoid thinking of Groucho Marx saying about himself .

"I do not want to be a member of a Club that allows people like me as their members."

Regarding those Melodia LPs I forgot to mention that even though they often got the balance right for HIGHER FIDELITY, they also had to stick to inferior vinyl quality so pressings were often quite noisy.
On my listening lists recently 3 imho MAJOR Contemporary Composers with one thing in common,all three "youngish women", have been what has kept me listening over and over again to some of their works via my Mscaler even on Youtube.
Icelandic Anna Thorwaldsdottir's truly Amazing Works like "Dreaming" and "Aeriality" And some of the Swedish composer Andrea Tarrodi's music like her recent Empíreo together with Italian Clara Ianotta's "Echo from Afar" let me dive into Orchestral Soundscapes so fascinating that some Standard Repertoire Western Classical Music that Hilary Hahn and Ann-Sophie Mutter normally perform both live on stage and recordings can sound a bit tame in comparison.
Strongly recommended for those Music Lovers brave enough to take a few steps beyond their usual comfort zone . All three available on Youtube in quite ok SQ
Mscaled .
Cheers CC

Very nice, I'll check them out thanks for sharing.

 

[Christer]

Ve

Very nice, I'll check them out thanks for sharing.

Thanks my pleasure ,
I just hope both you and others taking the bait ,will not react to it as the Wiener "guy" who went to the hear first performance of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony at "Theater an der Wien"and allegedly shouted from the Gallery "I would happily pay another Kreutzer if this noise stops ".
The music these three ladies compose does NOT belong in the EASY listening category.
Beethoven's own famous remark to that Wiener "guy" was : "I do not compose music for the Gallery." And in later years when the lead violinist of the the Shuppanzigh Quartet complained to Beethoven about some very difficult to play parts in one of his now legendary LATE String Quartets, Beethoven commented. "Does he believe, I think of him and his bloody fiddle when my inspiration flows?"
Clara Ianotta by the way, is I believe, currently Professor of composition in Vienna.
Her recent composition "Dead Wasps in a Jam Jar" is a work I can also strongly recommend. But beware, even dead wasps can sting.
Cheers CC

 

[Christer]

I reckon DAVE 2 won't be far behind the new Choral Super Scaler and Ultima DAC - that's when DAVE's price will crash. There's a lot of DAVEs out there...

Within 3 years?...

Hmm, if I have understood Rob correctly he has no Dave 2 currently planned? But the other two should be reasonably close to release ? Correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers CC

 

[miketlse]

Hmm, if I have understood Rob correctly he has no Dave 2 currently planned? But the other two should be reasonably close to release ? Correct me if I am wrong.
Cheers CC

I am presuming that there will be an announcement at one of the canjams featured on Chords news/events page.

 

[Articnoise]

OMG, here we go again.Your complete lack of logic makes me think of the wise words :
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but NOT their own facts."
I am repeatedly baffled that over and over again it has to be explained and defined on these threads, what HIFI is and can only be about ,ie to reproduce the actual live sound of UNAMPLIFIED INSTRUMENTS and the HUMAN VOICE as close as technically possible to how they generally sound live in a good acoustics hall.
HIFI stands for HIGH FIDELITY.
Yes, not everyone can be in the conductor's position or afford the best seats in the hall depending upon ones preferences of perspective and balance , and such weak excuses made by those who can not differentiate between facts and subjective preferences may "sound" like strong points to raise for some here.
But there is simply NO explaining away the undeniable fact that the "Real Thing" and the only Real Reference Point , here is the LIVE sound of unamplified instruments and the human voice against recorded and reproduced versions of it.

How difficult can it really get for some here to get that FACT sorted once and for all?

Amplified Instruments like Electric Guitars with inhererent VERY HIGH distortions and other Electronica and discussions of how they sound via whatever recording and reproduction chain used to play them back, belong in a completely different category than HIFI and CAN NOT and does not, sort under what HIFI at least once upon a time, used to stand for.
HIGH FIDELITY! "And now for something completely different" leaps to mind.
No wonder that Rob sometime feels like he is "banging his head againt a wall".
Cheers CC

IMO what you are describing in your post is absolut sound and not high fidelity. High fidelity is just like SQ more about preferens and to make all type of sound to sound convincing.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Thanks my pleasure ,
I just hope both you and others taking the bait ,will not react to it as the Wiener "guy" who went to the hear first performance of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony at "Theater an der Wien"and allegedly shouted from the Gallery "I would happily pay another Kreutzer if this noise stops ".
The music these three ladies compose does NOT belong in the EASY listening category.
Beethoven's own famous remark to that Wiener "guy" was : "I do not compose music for the Gallery." And in later years when the lead violinist of the the Shuppanzigh Quartet complained to Beethoven about some very difficult to play parts in one of his now legendary LATE String Quartets, Beethoven commented. "Does he believe, I think of him and his bloody fiddle when my inspiration flows?"
Clara Ianotta by the way, is I believe, currently Professor of composition in Vienna.
Her recent composition "Dead Wasps in a Jam Jar" is a work I can also strongly recommend. But beware, even dead wasps can sting.
Cheers CC

No worries, I am not that picky.

 

[Christer]

No worries, I am not that picky.

Oh, but maybe I should have added, and I am aware of possibly "stirring the Hornet's nest" even more than I already have , but here it goes again:

I am VERY PICKY when it comes to music, both WHAT I listen to, and HOW I listen to it.

I basically only listen to music that I consider worthy of my FULL ATTENTION and NEVER use music as any form of "aural wallpaper". No background music to any other activity for me. I even pause the music playing if I need to get something from the kitchen.

Meanwhile has anybody here dared to lend Clara Ianotta's or Andrea Tarrodi's or Anna Thorwaldsdottir's music "an ear" yet ?
Better lend them "two ears" and your FULL ATTENTION and via a resolving chain , and Mscaled , because there are very subtle layer upon layer ,of sometimes unexpected sounds and timbres to be discovered by doing so.
Be prepared to dive into some amazingly rich and very complex and multi-layered but also at times, quite brutal soundscapes.
PS. I can hardly wait to hear your reactions.
Cheers CC