HQPlayer Impressions and Settings Rolling Thread

[Rayon]

Thank you for the suggestion! Unfortunately Qobuz is not yet available in my country so I’m stuck with Tidal if I want to stream via HQP.

Btw I didn't have it in my country either back then, so I emailed them and they arranged it. I was just assigned to the neighbor country. It depends on your situation of course. There may be some law or other restrictions. In my case the problem was just that they hadn't done the coding and paper work, but there were no other obstacles as such. It was amazing customer service from them.

 

[Rayon]

I've done some furher investigation on bit depth to May with HQP. I definitely like 24 bits most. It may be that there is more distortion as well, but especially lower registry, microdetails and imaging on finer details suffer when moving even from 24 bits to 23. I'm demoing this currently with Metallica - Enter Sandman and some AC/DC. Using sinc-long and NS5. DSD is nice, but it rounds things up when I want to listen to live music. I have Mojo 2 these days and did some A/B between Mojo 2 + Poly -> Bliss and HQP -> May -> Bliss. sinc-long + NS5 @ 24bit is like Mojo 2 on steroids (same signature, same transparency to the small details in the record, staging is night and day, more effortless, less fatique).

EDIT: It seems that someone else prefers 24bit as well: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ath-and-magic/?do=findComment&comment=1127088

 

[bogi]

Ok, so this is why I said a missed opportunity, I don't have access to Tidal / Qubuz in my country only Apple music for hi-res lossless playback, so if HQPlayer provided a IOS thin-client app which can connect to my PC via wifi, I could have enjoyed the local files in my PC with high quality HQPlayer processing which I can't currently, and additionaly since my iPad runs from battery and wifi, I can also benefit from inherent galvanic isolation, I 100% agree HQPlayer is a great software, with this feature this could have increased the usability even more and possibly more users which is certainly a good thing for HQPlayer / Signalyst.

@GoldenSound asked to a similar thing on AS forum. Although GoldenSound's topic is about Android streamers, not iPad, the technical background and possible usage scenarios are related. I am adding here link to that discussion:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/?do=findComment&comment=1270275

 

[Rayon]

Much has been said here about SDM/DSD not being a good fit for Holo DACs. I have to agree. I have a Holo Spring 3 and no matter what filters I use, SDM/DSD always sounds like I am listening in a tunnel. Good if you like the HD8XX sound, terrible otherwise.

I also saw that Golden likes sinc-L and sinc-Mx best, while the filter I see mentioned most here, what seems to be the most popular on this thread, is sinc-long. I tried going back and forth, and it sounds to me like sinc-L/Mx is more accurate and pure, while sinc-long's longness causes almost a grungy, weighty sound that I think sounds good with rock. Sinc-L/Mx sound almost thin in comparison with that kind of music in my experience. I also noticed that sinc-L/Mx sound like they have a wider soundstage than sinc-long, but they don't do layering and holographicness as well, at least not as far as I can tell with my setup. Maybe my perception is colored by the extra grungyness, but sinc-long does sound better with soundstage overall, other than being a bit smaller and somewhat colored in comparison to sinc-L/MX.

I've been doing these comparisons as well, with results that have surprised me. I think I've started to prefer sinc-long for PCM and sinc-L for DSD. sinc-long + ns5 is amazing with acoustic and live music. It's very lively and realistic sounding. But it doesn't "dig deep", but it kind of feels like being there on the stage. However the trick of sinc-long + NS5 is not in macro, but micro. It's amazing in showing those small details that make all the difference with acoustic music. On PCM side sinc-L sounds somehow lame. But then, today I've been listening to sinc-L with ASDM7EC-super 512+fs @ DSD512. That digs deep! It's like going to movies in space. That well of blackness has unlimited depth and decay has all the time it will ever need to slowly settle into peace. Turn on Thomas Bergersen and start the 30s countdown to the liftoff while sinc-L starts loading it's taps. This way around, sinc-long sounds flat in comparison. It's very interesting how different nature they have and how they seem to synergize. Regarding to use case, I'd say that they are in the opposite ends of the micro-macro spectrum, at least for me at this moment

 

[David222]

How does one know if any specific filter is better suited for 1x vs NX ?

 

[Rayon]

How does one know if any specific filter is better suited for 1x vs NX ?

Click on "Help" on the top right corner of the "Config" -page, right under "Log". The table of filters has ratio column, which shows supported ratios (Integer, 2^x, Any). Sometimes the description of the filter also has some special comments.

However, in general filters care more about the rate family than the size of the multiplier or output rate. With noise shapers and modulators you have to consider the output rate as they are pushing noise around, assuming that the inaudible range starts after certain point of the available frequency range. If you use too small rates, noise is pushed to upper part of the audible range. This is mentioned in the description of the modulator/noise shaper table.

 

[Jake2]

Quick update on my evolving preferences within the constraints of my Mac Mini M1 16GB. I had a good listen to Sinc-L and variants with a range of modulators, ASDM7EC-super and ASDM7ECv3 in particular. All at DSD256. They make, as you say, Poly-sinc-gauss-long sound a little flat by comparison, and (my words) more lightly sketched.

My current fav combo Sinc-Mx (Sinc-L is a bridge just too far for the Mini, very occasionally drops out) with ASDM7EC-super, with ASDM7ECv3 being slightly more impressive in terms of bass weight and transients but not as relaxing a listen, a tad edgy. Or rather it was, 30 mins ago, but hand in hand with my HQP experimentation I've been taking my system's grounding to the next level over the last few days. Added a third parallel Mundorf 28mm wide 6N copper foil as conductors for the first part of the run from my conditioner to to in-room distributor to my dedicated ground rod. Hot damn, a bunch more edges and glare fell away, a broader and deeper soundstage (cavernous came to mind), a more refined, easy sound.. a little like going from DSD256 to 512, or maybe 128 to 256. But anyway, the relevance here is that after this my preference changed to ASDM7ECv3, what was a touch in yer face is still super resolved but now smooth as silk with more flow. ASDM7EC-super by contrast, whilst being delightly ethereal and floaty (probably even more so), felt unnecessarily soft and loose smearing the acoustic space to ECv3 without increasing listenability.

May change my mind tomorrow but that's how I feel right now.

 

[incredulousity]

Hello,

I would greatly appreciate some tech support assistance. I'm trying to run HQPlayer 5 via NAA to my Holo Red which is running the latest build of RopieeeXL (Jan 24). I have Hqplayer NAA enabled on Ropieee, but I cannot find the Holo red device as a dropdown option on the HQplayer interface. I have downloaded and I'm running network audio d from the Signalyst site. I also have Roon and have tried disabling the Holo red from the listed devices as well as fully shutting it down.

I'm out of ideas beyond flashing the microsd card to the Hqplayer NAA system, which I'd rather not try yet.

All help appreciated.

Why not try it? It’s almost free and very easy to just swap the SD card. NAA image sounds great with Red.

 

[Jake2]

General question for you guys on this thread with powerful PCs that can do hard modulators and filters at DSD512 and beyond, do any of you use Diretta with a separate low noise host to further distance the NAA target from the presumably not super quiet HQP PC?

I ask as the reason I got a Mac Mini was the many reports that Macs are inherently quieter than PCs as a baseline.

 

[bogi]

do any of you use Diretta with a separate low noise host to further distance the NAA target from the presumably not super quiet HQP PC?

Do you have any special motivation to use Diretta? HQPlayer computer and NAA can be placed in different rooms since they are connected through LAN. HQPlayer and NAA functionality is all you need for that.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hqplayer-feature-requests/165370/119

 

[Jake2]

Do you have any special motivation to use Diretta? HQPlayer computer and NAA can be placed in different rooms since they are connected through LAN. HQPlayer and NAA functionality is all you need for that.



https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hqplayer-feature-requests/165370/119

Mainly as I do know some keen Diretta advocates, but not sure they have powerful PCs like you guys. Cheers yes appreciate that the HQP server and NAA target can be remote, quite physically distanced so long as they're on the same LAN. By 'noise' of the HQP server PC I didn't mean localised RFI emissions etc affecting nearby streamers etc, more the 'quietness' of the network traffic it produces in terms of the load on the NAA target. Understand the Diretta host pares back network traffic to the target to a bare minimum and smooths the flow. A bit like running switches in series maybe. Advocates say this is very beneficial indeed.

 

[bogi]

I didn't mean localised RFI emissions etc affecting nearby streamers etc, more the 'quietness' of the network traffic it produces in terms of the load on the NAA target.

What computer do you plan use for NAA? Every computer is EMI source.
The main goal is to isolate DAC from ground loop currents, EMI and RFI sources. It can be reached in many ways.
One of them is USB isolation using Intona or similar. I'm using Topping HS02 followed by two iSilencers.
One would need to compare the Diretta way with others to find which one is most effective for the many paid.

IMO it has sense to do things in this order:
- use low power computer with noise optimized hardware for NAA, with low noise power supply
- use some kind of USB isolation (like Intona) if DAC does not isolate USB input sufficiently
- network level optimizations from noise point of view; start with suitable network switch and low noise power supply for it

 

[Jake2]

What computer do you plan use for NAA? Every computer is EMI source.
The main goal is to isolate DAC from ground loop currents, EMI and RFI sources. It can be reached in many ways.
One of them is USB isolation using Intona or similar. I'm using Topping HS02 followed by two iSilencers.
One would need to compare the Diretta way with others to find which one is most effective for the many paid.

IMO it has sense to do things in this order:
- use low power computer with noise optimized hardware for NAA, with low noise power supply
- use some kind of USB isolation (like Intona) if DAC does not isolate USB input sufficiently
- network level optimizations from noise point of view; start with suitable network switch and low noise power supply for it

All good points, agree many different paths to a low noise, optimised system. Simply asking if folk here have gone down the Diretta path.

Currently my streaming DAC has an NAA built in, and sounds excellent, more full bodied and natural than using the range of DDCs in my sig via a Zen Stream and direct from my HQP server via USB etc, Titanis > U18 etc. So have poured my effort into the ethernet chain rather than the USB chain in recent times and it paid dividends. Even with a LAN iSilencer and LHY switch in between the Mac HQP server and my streaming DAC I can easily hear tweaks to the Mac like grounding and vibration damping, hence the concern re a move to a more powerful and potentially noisy PC and thinking about additional isolation in the network domain. All just a bit of a thought experiment re further enhancements...

 

[bogi]

Even with a LAN iSilencer and LHY switch in between the Mac HQP server and my streaming DAC I can easily hear tweaks to the Mac like grounding and vibration damping, hence the concern re a move to a more powerful and potentially noisy PC and thinking about additional isolation in the network domain. All just a bit of a thought experiment re further enhancements...

Thanks for more detailed explanation.

Yes, this are things hat some people are able to hear but it is difficult to catch them by measurements and to explain their audibility.

Yet one point to this topic - rather my opinion than something measured and generally recognized: IMO not only (measurable) noise may affect audibility of some changes on remote server. The other thing is timing of audio data transferred from source server to NAA. IMO you can have your network well treated against noise, but differences in the way how data transfer is organized, may create different noise patterns at DAC side. Not only computers are source of high frequency noise. That noise is created as side effect of any digital processing, incl. that one in audio endpoint computer (device) and DAC. Change something - like size and frequency of incoming data blocks arrival - and you get different noise pattern affecting DAC. Maybe Diretta is addressing this ...

 

[573017]

If I am using HQ Player without Roon, just through the HQ Player Client, is it possible to stream through Tidal? Or do you have to use Qobuz or HRA Streaming?