HQPlayer Impressions and Settings Rolling Thread

[Rayon]

We don't yet have a proper thread dedicated to discuss about HQPlayer. Currently the dicussions are splittered in places where it's out of topic and it's also then harder to find that.

Some discussions outside of head-fi:

• https://community.roonlabs.com/t/which-hqp-filter-are-you-using/6061?page=128
• https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/37775-best-cpu-for-hqplayer/page/48/
• https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/64959-hqplayer-settings-for-specific-dacs/
• https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/19715-hq-player/
• https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-hi-res-settings-for-hqplayer/204710

What HQPlayer?

• Oversampling software (and a player if using Desktop)
• https://www.signalyst.eu/webshop.html
  • Option 1: Desktop
    • Standalone player
  • Option 2: Embedded
    • Background process
    • Configured from Web UI in local network
    • Integrates seamlessly with Roon
      • Between Roon and DAC
      • Becomes visible in Roon as an audio device
      • Select correct DAC from Web UI
  • Option 3: Pro
    • Basically for companies that oversample content to DSD and sell those oversampled results to consumers
  • NAA
    • Free software provided by Signalyst
    • Basically turns Intel NUC (or similar) into network endpoint that can be connected to DAC
      • This way the computer doing the heavy lifting doesn't have to be in a listening room
        • Especially useful with heavy DSD modulators at DSD512 or higher
        • (I have noisy, water cooled 13900k+A4000 running in another room)
• GoldenOne's HQPlayer oversampling guide: https://forum.headphones.com/t/goldens-hqplayer-oversampling-guide/25410

 

[Rayon]

I could start that since HQPlayer 5 launched, I've settled (for now) to: gauss-xla+ASDMEC7v3 @ DSD 44.1x1024 (rate family disabled). My other favourite is gauss-xla+AMSDM7EC 512+fs. It has certain kind of body that I like, but it doesn't sound technically as advanced (leaner). sinc-Mx + ASDM7EC-light 512+fs has also an amazing synergy (better than with super).

 

[Zachik]

I have been using JRiver Media Center for YEARS, and want to keep it for GUI and library management.
Anyone tried using HQPlayer (Embedded version) along with JRiver MC? I would love to give it a try, but not interested in replacing MC...

 

[plumpudding2]

My current favorite is sinc-long at 1411 khz, as described in the Roon thread it gives me the transient slam of PCM without any of its usual drawbacks (congestion, harshness, bass definition). Furthermore instruments have a floaty feeling to them which I attribute to the extreme separation the filter gives. Lastly, transients feel very realistic. Only drawback is it's so power hungry my GPU fans become slightly noisy..

I also really enjoy the new ASDM7ECv3 modulator, but unfortunately my 8086k cannot run it at x512 rates so i'm limited to 256. I can run ASDM7EC-light at 512 but it's hard for me to compare v3 at 256 vs -light at 512.

I'm thinking about grabbing a 13900k to have a crack at DSD1024, anyone here with experience with the higher DSD rates with Holo dacs? Is it worth the extra investment or is x256 all you need?

 

[Rayon]

I'm thinking about grabbing a 13900k to have a crack at DSD1024, anyone here with experience with the higher DSD rates with Holo dacs? Is it worth the extra investment or is x256 all you need?

DSD1024 to Holo May is just amazing and I prefer higher sample rate over "better" modulators. However, I'd say that try AMSDM7 512+fs. It's much lighter to process and your computer may even be able to do it @ DSD1024. That already gets you like 90% there. I know my 8700k was. EC modulators are just the cherry on the cake, but IMO not "necessary". AMSDM7 512+fs also synergizes very nicely with gauss filters.

On 13900k, I'd personally almost wait for 14900k which should land in the shops later this year. 13900k needs to be overclocked with water to be able to run ASDMEC7v3 @ DSD1024 and even then it's limited to 44.1x family. If you have 48x family content, you then need to oversample accross rate families, which limits your filter choices and also is much more taxing to compute (you need a proper GPU). 14900k may unlock 48x which would make things much simpler. I think I'm going to upgrade to it (or 15900k the latest).

EDIT: Oh, and make sure that you build a dedicated computer and put it in another room. Overclocked 13900k with AIO running full speed + case fans is loud. It would ruin my experience with open headphones.

 

[plumpudding2]

DSD1024 to Holo May is just amazing. However, I'd say that try AMSDM7 512+fs. It's much lighter to process and your computer may even be able to do it @ DSD1024. That already gets you like 90% there. I know my 8700k was. EC modulators are just the cherry on the cake, but IMO not "necessary". AMSDM7 512+fs also synergizes very nicely with gauss filters.

On 13900k, I'd personally almost wait for 14900k which should land in the shops later this year. 13900k needs to be overclocked with water to be able to run ASDMEC7v3 @ DSD1024 and even then it's limited to 44.1x family. If you have 48x family content, you then need to oversample accross rate families, which limits your filter choices and also is much more taxing to compute (you need a proper GPU). 14900k may unlock 48x which would make things much simpler. I think I'm going to upgrade to it (or 15900k the latest).

EDIT: Oh, and make sure that you build a dedicated computer and put it in another room. Overclocked 13900k with AIO running full speed + case fans is loud. It would ruin my experience with open headphones.

Thank you for your insights! I've always gone with Jussi's advice that it's better to run an EC modulator at a lower rate than a non-ec modulator at a higher, i'll give AMSDM7 512+fs a try.

I don't mind overclocking and watercooling a 13900k, before I became an audiophile I was a pc enthousiast.
Only problem I have is that I only have a single space that's used for both gaming and listening, so placing the noisy pc in another room and using NAA is unfortunately not an option. It'd be fun to try a passively cooled 13900k + passively cooled GPU and see if they can do DSD512 (or maybe with a 300 rpm silent fan or something).

Seems ASDMEC7v3 @ 1024 is not in the cards for me at the moment due to the above constaints, but maybe later. The Holo May is definitely a "rest of my life" dac so I can be patient

 

[Rayon]

Thank you for your insights! I've always gone with Jussi's advice that it's better to run an EC modulator at a lower rate than a non-ec modulator at a higher, i'll give AMSDM7 512+fs a try.

Anytime! I think it's good to keep in mind that many people use HQPlayer with speakers, not headphones. This may affect Jussi's recommendation. With headphones the effect to soundstage from higher sample rate is very obvious, while with speakers it may have less effect than EC.

I don't mind overclocking and watercooling a 13900k, before I became an audiophile I was a pc enthousiast.

Same. I actually love it that now again I have an actual reason to do some overclocking and PC building. I used to do that in my teens to make games run smoother. It's super fun to combine two things that I have loved so much during my life.

Only problem I have is that I only have a single space that's used for both gaming and listening, so placing the noisy pc in another room and using NAA is unfortunately not an option. It'd be fun to try a passively cooled 13900k + passively cooled GPU and see if they can do DSD512 (or maybe with a 300 rpm silent fan or something).

In that case I would most probably buy 13700k instead as you would need to drop voltages anyway to get the biggest benefit on passive. The benefit from 13900k vs 13700k is probably very marginal if you don't have massive (=best in the market) cooling that unlocks 13900k to do it's thing. It's kind of crazy design, where they accepted that it can suck all the power it needs and overclock itself to 100C. In case of 13900k the cooling basically defines it's speed, even without extra overclocking.

Some note on passive cooling btw: I recommend "semi-passive" approach: big cooler with Noctua fans barely rolling. Even that very minimal airflow massively boosts the cooling capacity, but it stays still fully inaudible. They talk about this for example here: https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cooling/noctua-nh-p1-review/1/

Seems ASDMEC7v3 @ 1024 is not in the cards for me at the moment due to the above constaints, but maybe later. The Holo May is definitely a "rest of my life" dac so I can be patient

That unicorn definitely means some serious dedication, resources and that extra space. P.S. check out for example ASDM7 and DSD7 256+fs and see how high rates you can use with those. I think those are also amazing and completely underrated modulators.

 

[ra990]

It seems like HQPlayer 5 updates benefit DSD format output more. I use PCM with the Chord DACs so I'm not seeing much reason to upgrade to version 5 yet. Anyone using PCM output and finds version 5 to be an audible improvement?

 

[Rayon]

It seems like HQPlayer 5 updates benefit DSD format output more. I use PCM with the Chord DACs so I'm not seeing much reason to upgrade to version 5 yet. Anyone using PCM output and finds version 5 to be an audible improvement?

Have you tried sinc-long and sinc-MGa? Especially sinc-long impressed me, if I would use PCM, that would be my new go-to (replacing sinc-L).

 

[damascato]

for some reason sinc-long (vs mx previously) stutters on my system…

 

[Rayon]

for some reason sinc-long (vs mx previously) stutters on my system…

It's super heavy to calculate. That's why I'm not using it with DSD. I can only do it with PCM and even then my A4000 is clearly working. But it does sound incredible.

 

[b0bb]

It's super heavy to calculate. That's why I'm not using it with DSD. I can only do it with PCM and even then my A4000 is clearly working. But it does sound incredible.

Very heavy indeed.

Below is the load on my RTX3080Ti, almost completely tapped out pulling 348W.
This is sinc-long 44k PCM conversion to DSD64.
ASDM7EC-super modulator.

3080Ti FP64 performance is 0.5TeraFlops(TFLOPS)

44k PCM to DSD512 conversion is estimated to take 4TFLOPS
Candidate GPUs are
- Tesla P100 4.8 TFLOPS
- Tesla V100 7 TFLOPS

44k PCM to DSD1024 conversion is estimated to take 8TFLOPS
- Tesla A100 9.7 TFLOPS

Techpowerup database numbers
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On a separate note Sinc-L is a completely different creature.
Below is the load trace while converting 44k PCM to DSD512
(ASDM7EC-super 512+ modulator)

Sinc-L is a memory hog, 11.6GB on GPU, 22GB on host.
Occasional load peaks to 85%, much lower power consumption.

 

[audionewbi]

On a somewhat related note, I have been enjoying the free version of PGGB.IT for foobar.

 

[b0bb]

sinc-long, PCM768k output. 44k input
Much lower load, this is a better use case for this filter.

 

[b0bb]

The above load is low enough that this can be handled by more power efficient card like the Pascal based GTX1080.
FP64 is rated at 0.27 TFlops
This will keep this card at 50-60% load