HQPlayer Impressions and Settings Rolling Thread

[bogi]

All additional cable endings, plugs, connectors add reflections because of not perfect impedance match. Front panel USB ports are known to perform worse than back panel ones connected directly to motherboard because of EMI inducted to cable lead in computer case. These things may be not observed with usual computer devices.

From point of view of possible reflections it is better to use 1.5m USB cable than 0.5m one particularly if cable is not terminated correctly. It is about signal rise time (tens of ns) in relation to signal transmission speed through metal wires (slightly less than speed of light).

Even if there are no dropouts, USB can still significantly affect sound by transferring computer generated noise or ground loop currents to DAC. I have very good experience with Topping HS02 followed by two iSilencer+ (together about 200 EUR). Others like improvement brought by Intona USB isolator.

 

[Jake2]

@Rayon thanks for your HQP review and feedback on this thread, @bogi too. Very useful resource for someone just getting up to speed with HQP v5.

(Background is I'd only been 6 months and a week with HQP v4 when V5 was released so had - let's just say - rather limited enthusiasm at that time to pay more than the same again for V5, given the marginal discount for the >6mo cohort)

I've put that behind me now, well trying to, and finally had a listen after rejigging my main system. V5 is impressive. Catch is my Max Mini M1 16gb can give me some of the goodness at 512Mhz (AMSDM7EC 512fs+/ poly-sinc-gauss-long sounds great) but just short teasers of some of the higher end modulator/filter combos.

My DAC tops out at DSD512 /PMC768, so no aspirations for DSD1024 at this time.

What I'm shooting for is hardware that will do at least this:
ASDM7EC-super 512fs+ / ASDM7EC-v3
1x poly-sinc-gauss-xla
Nx Sinc-Ls (or similar)
DSD 512 x48

Any hardware recommendations would be appreciated, preferably in the Mac range if poss as I like the neat compactness of the Mini.

Cheers
Jake

 

[bogi]

Any hardware recommendations would be appreciated, preferably in the Mac range if poss as I like the neat compactness of the Mini.

Mac Silicon is not the most optimal platform for HQPlayer, if you want DSD512.
HQPlayer Desktop runs best on Intel, where you can choose between Windows or Linux, but there is also HQPlayer OS (bootable Linux image with HQPlayer Embedded, no OS installation required, but no CUDA offload is possible in that case).

If you would use NAA then that computer does not need to be placed in your listening room, it does not need to be silent and can be cheaper. Silent solutions are usually more expensive. Small cases are not optimal from cooling point of view. Many people store HQPlayer computer in a technical room or closet and operate HQPlayer from a tablet, so then that computer does not need to be compact, nice and quite silent.

There are people on this forum who are running computers capable of DSD1024, they can possible help you more in this topic. For HQPlayer I'm using the same notebook as for my work, in dual boot mode, so I didn't build a computer myself for HQPlayer. This i7 11850H + RTX A2000 is by coincidence a very good pair with HQPlayer, I'm reaching DSD512 with all modulators and almost all filters.

 

[genefruit]

@Rayon thanks for your HQP review and feedback on this thread, @bogi too. Very useful resource for someone just getting up to speed with HQP v5.

(Background is I'd only been 6 months and a week with HQP v4 when V5 was released so had - let's just say - rather limited enthusiasm at that time to pay more than the same again for V5, given the marginal discount for the >6mo cohort)

I've put that behind me now, well trying to, and finally had a listen after rejigging my main system. V5 is impressive. Catch is my Max Mini M1 16gb can give me some of the goodness at 512Mhz (AMSDM7EC 512fs+/ poly-sinc-gauss-long sounds great) but just short teasers of some of the higher end modulator/filter combos.

My DAC tops out at DSD512 /PMC768, so no aspirations for DSD1024 at this time.

What I'm shooting for is hardware that will do at least this:
ASDM7EC-super 512fs+ / ASDM7EC-v3
1x poly-sinc-gauss-xla
Nx Sinc-Ls (or similar)
DSD 512 x48

Any hardware recommendations would be appreciated, preferably in the Mac range if poss as I like the neat compactness of the Mini.

Cheers
Jake

I'm not sure there is a Mac Studio or Mini that can reach the levels you seek. I went PC and can do those (i9 14900k waterblocked & 4080 noctua) using fan control and the noise level is at or below room noise levels (upper 20s low 30s depending upon HVAC) with the machine 6ft from the listening position.

 

[Rayon]

Hey everyone,

I'm at a bit of a crossroads and could use your collective wisdom. I'm trying to figure out the best setup for streaming music on Tidal through Roon and HQPlayer. Specifically, I'm torn between using MQA files (when high-res FLAC isn't available) or switching the settings to HiFi and sticking with CD quality FLACs.

Here's the deal: I understand that the purest way to settle this would be to test both options myself. However, I'm well aware that our hearing is incredibly subjective, influenced by a myriad of factors ranging from physiological to psychological, and even societal expectations. Given this, even if I don't discern a significant difference, I'd find comfort in aligning with the consensus on what's theoretically superior.

What's your take on this? Is there a clear winner between MQA and CD quality FLAC when playing through HQPlayer? If CD quality is the way to go, does it even justify paying for Tidal's top-tier subscription?

If it's relevant, my listening setup involves either a Chord Mojo 2 or Qutest as DACs, with a Chord Anni amp.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Btw you may want to try Qobuz. Their Studio plan costs $10.83/m if you pay once a year and it includes hi-res. Integrates with Roon seamlessly. I've been very happy with it. They also have mobile app with offline capabilities (for some mobile app is important). I've also tried that Qobuz app can bypass Android's sound system when using usb-dongle, so you get bit perfect on the go if needed. I used to have Tidal, but Qobuz focuses more on audiophile use (high respect for bit perfect and real hi-res vs MQA). It makes a big difference, especially with HQP.

 

[TonyNewman]

Btw you may want to try Qobuz. Their Studio plan costs $10.83/m if you pay once a year and it includes hi-res. Integrates with Roon seamlessly. I've been very happy with it. They also have mobile app with offline capabilities (for some mobile app is important). I've also tried that Qobuz app can bypass Android's sound system when using usb-dongle, so you get bit perfect on the go if needed. I used to have Tidal, but Qobuz focuses more on audiophile use (high respect for bit perfect and real hi-res vs MQA). It makes a big difference, especially with HQP.

+1 for Qobuz. I have an annual subscription and love it.

 

[1laraz]

From point of view of possible reflections it is better to use 1.5m USB cable than 0.5m one particularly if cable is not terminated correctly. It is about signal rise time (tens of ns) in relation to signal transmission speed through metal wires (slightly less than speed of light).

Could you provide the source for this statement please? Sorry for the off topic

 

[genefruit]

Could you provide the source for this statement please? Sorry for the off topic

a quick source of this is at https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm but it's not the original source. I remember this being kicked around in the 90s but I don't recall the original source.

addendum - this was originally related to SPDIF (75ohms) but I guess it's being referenced for USB as well?!

 

[genefruit]

a quick source of this is at https://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm but it's not the original source. I remember this being kicked around in the 90s but I don't recall the original source.

addendum - this was originally related to SPDIF (75ohms) but I guess it's being referenced for USB as well?!

Discussions on this topic are elsewhere, including this thread that has a John Siau (Benchmark) response - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...igital-audio-cable-reflections-and-dacs.7159/

 

[bogi]

Could you provide the source for this statement please? Sorry for the off topic

Source is simple math.

addendum - this was originally related to SPDIF (75ohms) but I guess it's being referenced for USB as well?!

When inspecting short digital cable lenghts, signal rise time is important and that's similar in different digital applications.

Discussions on this topic are elsewhere, including this thread that has a John Siau (Benchmark) response - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...igital-audio-cable-reflections-and-dacs.7159/

Yes, that one explains the topic of short lengths in easy language.

 

[emskymc]

Btw you may want to try Qobuz. Their Studio plan costs $10.83/m if you pay once a year and it includes hi-res. Integrates with Roon seamlessly. I've been very happy with it. They also have mobile app with offline capabilities (for some mobile app is important). I've also tried that Qobuz app can bypass Android's sound system when using usb-dongle, so you get bit perfect on the go if needed. I used to have Tidal, but Qobuz focuses more on audiophile use (high respect for bit perfect and real hi-res vs MQA). It makes a big difference, especially with HQP.

Thank you for the suggestion! Unfortunately Qobuz is not yet available in my country so I’m stuck with Tidal if I want to stream via HQP. For now I have moved to “HiFi” Tidal settings in Roon and as suggested upsample to PCM rather than DSD (supposedly better with Chord DACs). As in all audio gear I find it very difficult to determine clear preference since my (and the majority of people) audio perception is so biased - concentration, mood, auditory memory, community beliefs…
I spend long periods just enjoying music but then the audiophile bug just bugs with its constant “what if that’s slightly better”.

 

[Jake2]

I'm not sure there is a Mac Studio or Mini that can reach the levels you seek. I went PC and can do those (i9 14900k waterblocked & 4080 noctua) using fan control and the noise level is at or below room noise levels (upper 20s low 30s depending upon HVAC) with the machine 6ft from the listening position.

Cheers, your PC sounds like a beast. I googled i9 14900k/4080 PCs and they are pretty pricey over here. Was hoping to spend a little less.

In terms of the minimum viable product (to use corporate lingo) to manage the filters and modulators I mentioned @DSD512 could I get away with something more modest and compact, like this..

Intel NUC13 Raptor Mini PC Barebone Kit Intel 13th Gen Core i9-13900K 24 Cores

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/BPCINT5678370/Intel-NUC13-Raptor-Mini-PC-Barebone-Kit-Intel-13th

Is a fancy GPU essential for DSD512 or would the CPU at that level suffice? If a discrete GPU is needed what's the MVP there? And how about minimum RAM?

Sorry bout all the questions but I've never built a PC so not super au fait with this stuff.

Thanks again.

 

[genefruit]

Cheers, your PC sounds like a beast. I googled i9 14900k/4080 PCs and they are pretty pricey over here. Was hoping to spend a little less.

In terms of the minimum viable product (to use corporate lingo) to manage the filters and modulators I mentioned @DSD512 could I get away with something more modest and compact, like this..

Intel NUC13 Raptor Mini PC Barebone Kit Intel 13th Gen Core i9-13900K 24 Cores

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/BPCINT5678370/Intel-NUC13-Raptor-Mini-PC-Barebone-Kit-Intel-13th

Is a fancy GPU essential for DSD512 or would the CPU at that level suffice? If a discrete GPU is needed what's the MVP there? And how about minimum RAM?

Sorry bout all the questions but I've never built a PC so not super au fait with this stuff.

Thanks again.

I have to admit I don't know whether the above will be capable of 512 with sinc-Ls using ASDM7EC-super 512fs+ / ASDM7EC-v3. Those are the two most compute intensive modulators. It's an expensive failure if your end goal is the only satisfactory result, since you already have a Mac Mini that takes you most of the way there.

One option would be to try the various EC modulators at 256 with the desired filters and see whether you have a clear preference for ASDM7EC-super and/or ASDM7ECv3 over the others. If not, you could try a less intensive modulator at 512. Or decide to stay at 256, as some DACs work best here versus a higher rate.

I suggest perusing audiophile style forums related to HQPlayer to see what others use and what combinations are possible. This one is dedicated to processors - https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/37775-best-cpu-for-hqplayer/page/99/#comments

 

[bogi]

What I'm shooting for is hardware that will do at least this:
ASDM7EC-super 512fs+ / ASDM7EC-v3
1x poly-sinc-gauss-xla
Nx Sinc-Ls (or similar)
DSD 512 x48

Intel NUC13 Raptor Mini PC Barebone Kit Intel 13th Gen Core i9-13900K 24 Cores

Modulators don't use GPU and don't require much RAM. I know people using Gen9 Intel and able to run any modulator at DSD512. I don't have any issue in this regard on my 11th Gen Intel notebook. So all modulators will work on 13th Gen Intel at DSD512.

The rest is about filters. Those mentioned by you are not specially hard to process so they should work on the mentioned barebone at DSD512. They work on my notebook (but it contains nVidia GPU). On 13th Gen Intel they could work without additional GPU, but one has to try.

The downside may be noise coming from cooling, if you want to place it in your listening room.

 

[Jake2]

Thanks @bogi @genefruit for the really useful comments, sharing your experience, providing me some base principles and considerations to work from.

@genefruit So i do particularly like what I've heard of the ASDM7EC-super modulators in combination with poly-sinc-gauss-long (I can see why it's favoured as a great all rounder) at both DSD256 and very briefly, in about four second bursts, at DSD512. The ECv3 filter barely manages 1/2 a sec at 512 so have no sense of that. 256 on those super/guass-long/xla settings sounds terrific and I could live with it very happily I'm sure. Problem is I've heard what happens at 512 with the same filters and modulator, another level of refinement, resolution and soundstage scale. It's early days fer sure, but so far after a crash course in listening toa few modulators I do very much like the Supers. Will listen more incl to ECv2 & 3 at 256. (Update - ECv3 sounds excellent, Super has more flow, V3 more punchy)

So I guess what I'm doing is costing up what the price of entry is hardware wise to what I currently get 4 second glimpses of. It's not cheap is it. (Ok, only 2 secs max today, though I swear it was longer yesterday)

Ok cool re AS, thanks for the link.. suspected I'd have to jump into on of their monster threads sooner or later, this thread will ease the pain.

And good point @bogi re fan noise, that of course is the point of water cooling (penny drops).

Cheers