how much would it cost to drive hd600?

[steven_1026]

Hmm, I think I'll just pick up an hd600 once I sell my current headphones and then go from there. Thanks for all the input guys.
Just another quick question thats kind of off topic, but I remember reading that there was a study that showed that there was no sonic difference between the hundred dollar cables vs the regular cables. This study was also debated here and it seems many people agree with it, but many people here also recable their headphones. Why is that?

 

[Suntory_Times]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_1026 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just another quick question thats kind of off topic, but I remember reading that there was a study that showed that there was no sonic difference between the hundred dollar cables vs the regular cables. This study was also debated here and it seems many people agree with it, but many people here also recable their headphones. Why is that?

Because this is still debated and always will be. I strongly suggest trying an aftermarket cable, and to make up you own mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_1026 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the explanation guys, I always hear people talking about a DAC and amp combo, but never knew the the specific job of each equipment. So if I were to get a DAC, then there would be no use for my soundcard right? Also, if I'm satisfied with the sound quality of my soundcard, then I would really just need an amp (unless it reveals that the sound quality is crap)?

I've yet to here an internal sound card that satisfied me when using headphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odigg /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've compared the HD600 plugged straight into a computer sound card versus into an amp/dac combo that is very respected on this board. IMHO the difference wasn't much. Both were very enjoyable.

It also has to have synergy, and the music your listening to has to be revealing enough. That being said the difference is arbitrary and hard to argue, though nearly all agree that there is a difference.

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suntory_Times /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because this is still debated and always will be. I strongly suggest trying an aftermarket cable, and to make up you own mind.

x2

Yup. I'm very happy that I invested in mine. Good improvement for the money (or... "trade", I guess... with you

).

 

[linuxworks]

you can drive hd600 from a mini3 or pimeta.

don't let the bullies convince you that throwing money at the problem is the best/only way to it.

its not.

the phones are not hard to drive. a good amp can drive them. good amps can be built (diy) for well under $100.

fwiw.

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif you can drive hd600 from a mini3 or pimeta. don't let the bullies convince you that throwing money at the problem is the best/only way to it. its not. the phones are not hard to drive. a good amp can drive them. good amps can be built (diy) for well under $100. fwiw.

Agreed. They even sound more than acceptable straight from my Fuze. They don't "sound like crap" unamped... they just sound better through a good dedicated amp, like many other headphones.

Not the power-hungry beasts they are made out to be.

 

[steven_1026]

I understand that the hd600 are 300ohms, so would an amp that is rated for over 300ohms be better then an amp that is rated for say 32-300ohms? Basically I'm wondering do amps have trouble driving a headphone when it gets close to their limits.
When I purchased my soundcard, I read a reviewer say that his Beyerdynamics dt880 250ohms (I think) worked perfectly fine on it. I do doubt the credibility of it considering it came from a general "tech" website, but still it gives me that slight hope that it would suffice.....for now.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_1026 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand that the hd600 are 300ohms, so would an amp that is rated for over 300ohms be better then an amp that is rated for say 32-300ohms? Basically I'm wondering do amps have trouble driving a headphone when it gets close to their limits. When I purchased my soundcard, I read a reviewer say that his Beyerdynamics dt880 250ohms (I think) worked perfectly fine on it. I do doubt the credibility of it considering it came from a general "tech" website, but still it gives me that slight hope that it would suffice.....for now.

Generally, you want a lower output impedance with your amp. The lower the output impedance is compared to the headphones, the higher the damping factor. You want to get the damping factor as high as possible. The damping factor tells you how much control an amp has over a driver. Think about it like how well a tire grips the road.

Impedance by itself doesn't tell you the entire story of how hard a headphone is to drive. Impedance tells you mostly about how power transfers from the amp to the headphones - there is a formula where you can figure the relationship. Once you know that, you can use the power output of the amp to see how much power will get through and the sensitivity of the headphones to see how loud they will get, given the amount of power that gets through.

There is (of course) more to this, but the impedance of the headphones, by itself, doesn't give you enough information to know. You also have to look at the output impedance of the amp, the power of the amp and the headphones' sensitivity.

Also, you should know that impedance varies by frequency. Impedance is on a curve for both, which means that the power varies depending on the frequency going through.

It's a complicated dance, and you can't just reduce it to a "32 Ohms is easy to drive and 300 Ohms is hard to drive" sort of equation.

As for soundcards, I don't think they do a good job of powering full-sized headphones. Yes, they will make sound. But keep in mind that a PCI slot is designed to put out 3.3V or 5V. PCI slots were not designed to power audiophile grade amps and neither were computer power supplies. A typical good solid state amp runs on 12V-24V or so and a tube amp will run a B+ of 250V or more. You need the voltage to really swing and control a driver on the big headphones. The other problem I have with soundcards is that they run off the switching power supply in the computer. You will not find any well-regarded amps running from a switching power supply. Anything decent runs off a linear supply, with much better stability and filtering.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. They even sound more than acceptable straight from my Fuze. They don't "sound like crap" unamped... they just sound better through a good dedicated amp, like many other headphones. Not the power-hungry beasts they are made out to be.

yeah, I don't know WHY there is this URBAN LEGEND about them being hard to drive.

I've driven them with walkman style devices before. it works. its not horrible. you can't drive tthem loud but are you expecting that from a portable?

even the 'lowly' pimeta drives my hd phones just fine. the phones start distorting before the amp does, really! my hd580 and 650 phones only go so loud before they start sounding bad on their own (and that's even with a b22 driving them, so its NOT the amp, its the phones that 'stop' sounding good beyond a certain loudness point).

 

[Currawong]

linuxworks: Maybe because it's a waste of money to buy such a great pair of headphones then under-utilise them. It reminds me of the Ferrari 599 I passed the other day on the expressway being driven by an old man at exactly the speed limit.

 

[pabbi1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif linuxworks: Maybe because it's a waste of money to buy such a great pair of headphones then under-utilise them. It reminds me of the Ferrari 599 I passed the other day on the expressway being driven by an old man at exactly the speed limit.

You forgot to mention the hot chica riding along with - so, maybe only a waste in one sense...

In 99/100 cases, an underpowered (under controlled) hd600 is simply disappointing - no other way to say it.

 

[steven_1026]

I've now been considering the k701 as well. I've read that the k701 is particularly hard to drive. Given my budget for an amp, (<$200CAD) would it be better to go for the hd600 or the k701?
About those ferraris/lambos, I've always wondered what the driver does when they come up to really big speed bump. Perhaps they've got so much money to throw around they'll just buy a new car when theyre current one is dented.

 

[Chrysoberyl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed. They even sound more than acceptable straight from my Fuze. They don't "sound like crap" unamped... they just sound better through a good dedicated amp, like many other headphones. Not the power-hungry beasts they are made out to be.

I agree with that 100%.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steven_1026 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've now been considering the k701 as well. I've read that the k701 is particularly hard to drive. Given my budget for an amp, (<$200CAD) would it be better to go for the hd600 or the k701? About those ferraris/lambos, I've always wondered what the driver does when they come up to really big speed bump. Perhaps they've got so much money to throw around they'll just buy a new car when theyre current one is dented.

To get the bass especially punchy out of both, you'll need a good amp. The K701s are more analytical, in that you'll know if your gear is not up to scratch. I'd pick the HD-600s but be very tempted to get K601s instead, not K701s.