[ACAVant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphie On that thought, I'm gonna build a HQ gasoline-ran power generator and power all my stuff with it bwehehe

I run on rat wheel power. For some reason, though, I hear this squeaking every time I listen to music... I must need cleaner rats.

 

[morphie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReasonablyLucid I have a PSaudio statement and I know for a fact that it makes a difference. I even did a blind test with people who listen to crappy $20 headphones and even they can tell a difference. My situation may not be common though. My place has *BAD* power so I use a power conditioner which makes a huge difference (I can hear the microwave through the headphones, lol, comes across as a buzz when its not on the power conditioner). Anyway my rig is at my computer and if I use a generic IEC cord I can hear a buzz from interference my computer and several monitors are ovbiously putting out. When the more expensive cord is used between my amp and the power conditioner there is no buzz, the general sound seems more clear as well. So it works

Yea, it works, it cleans the power and the result is a cleaner sound, without ground noise. In no way does it make any sonic changes in the sound tho.

 

[ACAVant]

I'd like to know what you mean by sonic changes? Do you mean an audible difference in what is heard or a change in the imaging of the audio?

 

[morphie]

I mean better bass, mids or highs. A sonic improvement, as in a change in the sounds I currently am able to hear.

 

[geek707]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACAVant This is getting a bit off the topic now isn't it? The whole thing with rewiring all the way to the power station? Why the hell not. I'm a gazillionaire Yeah it's true it would be ridiculous to do. What we are replacing is not the mains from the plant, but removing a bottleneck in the power "chain". This is done by replacing the cheap arse power cable that comes in the box with something that's a little more refined. Do you run the dinky interconnects and speaker wire you get in your boxes? Or do you spring for something a little nicer? It's all about doing the best to have your system run optimally. It's not taking someones money for nothing. And power current is signal. They're both electrical current are they not? Again I suppose it's an ear thing, and everyone is subjective to what they are capable of hearing so it really is a nowhere argument. Music is art and it's to be enjoyed. Just cos I like house doesn't mean you have to.

Bottleneck?
The interconnects, and speaker cables are in the signal path, and you can show what they do, hell one of the high end cable guys was showing scope traces 20 years ago that demonstrated what speaker cables and interconnects do. You cannot show that with power cables. If you have a noisy line no passive device is going to do much, you need a line conditioner. If you have a good ground, any power cord is gong to sound fine.
How many of you still paint the edges of your cd's green? Man everyone could hear the difference, and I see Audience still makes a set, but do you see any manufacture doing it? Even the high end Japanese MiniLP's? Naw.
Another question. Same power cable for 120 as 220-240, just different connectors? Really?
If you like how they look, and you have the $$, go for it. It's as good a reason as any. Point me a page that gives an explanation, other than I can hear the difference, or removes a "bottleneck" I will take a look.
--

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danamr Bottleneck? The interconnects, and speaker cables are in the signal path, and you can show what they do, hell one of the high end cable guys was showing scope traces 20 years ago that demonstrated what speaker cables and interconnects do. You cannot show that with power cables. If you have a noisy line no passive device is going to do much, you need a line conditioner. If you have a good ground, any power cord is gong to sound fine. --

But, again, you haven't tried it, have you? So you really don't know?! Your opinion -- pronounced with much authority -- is based entirely on hearsay.

Edit: As a matter of curiosity, I'd also like to hear your epxlanation or thoughts on the current state of scientific knowledge relevant to the issue under discussion. Isn't your opinion based on the assumption that the measurements that you reference and others that are available today are (1) the only ones we will ever have, and (2) the only ones that could possibly be relevant to how the human brain perceives sound? In other words, isn't your opinon based on the assumption that it is impossible that science can advance any further in terms of understanding the matters under discussion, including auditory perception? I would like to hear your thoughts on this, as I admit I don't know a lot about the subject, but I have read several posts on this forum and elsewhere from individuals who have degrees in psychology and related fields who have expressed the opinon that there is a great deal we don't know about such things as perception and the human brain.

 

[braillediver]

This debate has broken down to 2 groups:

1) I’ve heard the difference in an actual system and I’m convinced it works.

2) I’ve never tried and it’s impossible.

I’m content. I’ve never tried to persuade anyone and the people who argue against base their opinion on an opinion not actual experience. So this is not a debate worth participating in.


Mitch

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver This debate has broken down to 2 groups: 1) I’ve heard the difference in an actual system and I’m convinced it works. 2) I’ve never tried and it’s impossible. I’m content. I’ve never tried to persuade anyone and the people who argue against base their opinion on an opinion not actual experience. So this is not a debate worth participating in. Mitch

True, but it's hard for some of us to help ourselves . . . sort of like watching a train wreck. I mean, I really find it hard to believe that people can pronounce an absolutely firm opinion on something that they have no experience with. I can understand someone who says that they haven't tried it and they have doubts it will work or they "think" it won't work. But I can't figure out how someone who has never tried something can state with 100% certainty what effect it will have. I figure that if we reason with them long enough, maybe we can convince them how silly this position is.

But, you are right, it is probably a waste of time. When I was a child, my parents told me certain things, and I thought they were crazy. I now have children of my own, and I see my parents were right, and I tell my children the same things . . . and they think I'm crazy. And I know that when my children get older, they'll know I was right, and my parents were right, etc. But my words will never convince them, because they haven't had the experience yet.

 

[geek707]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS Edit: As a matter of curiosity, I'd also like to hear your epxlanation or thoughts on the current state of scientific knowledge relevant to the issue under discussion. Isn't your opinion based on the assumption that the measurements that you reference and others that are available today are (1) the only ones we will ever have, and (2) the only ones that could possibly be relevant to how the human brain perceives sound? In other words, isn't your opinon based on the assumption that it is impossible that science can advance any further in terms of understanding the matters under discussion, including auditory perception? I would like to hear your thoughts on this, as I admit I don't know a lot about the subject, but I have read several posts on this forum and elsewhere from individuals who have degrees in psychology and related fields who have expressed the opinon that there is a great deal we don't know about such things as perception and the human brain.

What I would like to see is measurements that give any creadence to the claims being made. Show me the data! I agree that state of the art now may not be what is state of the art tomorrow. But not one post on this thread has refered to any data at all.
Show me some Data. Any Data!

 

[geek707]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver This debate has broken down to 2 groups: 1) I’ve heard the difference in an actual system and I’m convinced it works. 2) I’ve never tried and it’s impossible. I’m content. I’ve never tried to persuade anyone and the people who argue against base their opinion on an opinion not actual experience. So this is not a debate worth participating in. Mitch

I have never said it is impossible, just I have yet to have anyone produce any scientific explanation as to what is going on.
As to #1. Do you paint the edges of your CD's green? I heard a lot of: I can hear it, and I am convinced it works, with that. If that was the case why don't you paint your CD's? Why don't manufactures, even limited high end CD. Spend $100+ on a powercord? Shoot nobody has shown me that I would not get just as good results from burning a $100 bill and rubbing the ash on my current cables.
I work in the field of color reproduction, and know what the human brain can do with visual perception.
Show me some data. I know that you do not hear sound the same way that anyone else does, so saying I can hear it is meaningless. I am sure you can hear it. Could a non-audiophile?
Show me some data.

 

[aerius]

For the people who keep insisting on measurements and data, I have a few questions.

1. How do you measure soundstage size & depth? What would you use to measure it with?

2. Detail. How are you going to measure it? What kind of graph, chart, or stat are you going to use to say that yes, this system indeed makes a '67 Fender Stratocaster sound like a '67 Strat instead of a '93 model?

3. Groove. What makes music sound alive. Where can one look up groove on a graph, chart, or spec?

 

[ACAVant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS But, you are right, it is probably a waste of time. When I was a child, my parents told me certain things, and I thought they were crazy. I now have children of my own, and I see my parents were right, and I tell my children the same things . . . and they think I'm crazy. And I know that when my children get older, they'll know I was right, and my parents were right, etc. But my words will never convince them, because they haven't had the experience yet.

lol it is a waste of time. I've just had a look back on all the posts and it's spiralled into a debate. Folks, if you like the way something makes your system sound then go for it. If you don't, then don't. Give it a try. Where is the harm in that? I'm sure not every store will let you take home a $100+ lead but there are some that will. At least if it's on your system you can't think you've been had. Why do I eat butterscotch ice cream? cos it tastes better than vanilla. Why do I use a different power lead? Cos I like the way it makes my music sound. There's no technical reasoning behind it. I can tell you what parts of the brain are stimulated, but not as to why I enjoy those stimuli more.

 

[morphie]

weee this has developped since i left. Ok first fo all, PhilS you forgot to PM me Second of all I believe I am a standalone 3rd group saying: "Ive never heard it and i dont believe it one bit but hell im buying some to try it out anyway"

and better believe it, i AM the dominant group here.

One more thing, Danamr, I'm a 21 yr old student from France who loves music and has decent hearing, I am by no means an audiophile, nor do I believe I need audiophile ears to catch differences in sound. If its there ill hear it, simple as that.

If you want data then spend a hundred bucks n buy an HQ power cord n check it out for yourself. Most cable makers will be ready to pay you back entirely before 30 days if you're not satisfied, so you won't be losing money, and you'll have an actual base of argument. Right now you're just being silly.

 

[ACAVant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphie weee this has developped since i left. Ok first fo all, PhilS you forgot to PM me Second of all I believe I am a standalone 3rd group saying: "Ive never heard it and i dont believe it one bit but hell im buying some to try it out anyway" and better believe it, i AM the dominant group here. One more thing, Danamr, I'm a 21 yr old student from France who loves music and has decent hearing, I am by no means an audiophile, nor do I believe I need audiophile ears to catch differences in sound. If its there ill hear it, simple as that. If you want data then spend a hundred bucks n buy an HQ power cord n check it out for yourself. Most cable makers will be ready to pay you back entirely before 30 days if you're not satisfied, so you won't be losing money, and you'll have an actual base of argument. Right now you're just being silly.

Well said! Don't knock it till you've tried it.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphie Ok first fo all, PhilS you forgot to PM me.

Oh, I thought you were gonna PM me. No matter, I will PM you when I have a moment. It may take me a day, as I was going to put in some detail regarding the changes made by the substition of the three power cords I am now using, and I also wanted to provide some context so you could evaluate why I believe there were changes.